Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

Jun 30, 2009
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Interesting:



There are few situations where someone can’t have a COVID vaccine for medical reasons. The criteria to receive a permanent medical exemption are very narrow and rarely required.

The only criteria are:

  • anaphylaxis following a previous dose of a COVID vaccine
  • or previous anaphylaxis to any component of a COVID vaccine.
For live vaccines, such the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) and varicella vaccines, people who are significantly immunocompromised can get a permanent medical exemption. But this isn’t relevant for COVID vaccines because they’re not live vaccines.
My wife is immuno compromised. Her specialist has recommended she wait for now to see what data comes out of other jurisdictions with people in the same boat as her.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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But it's still discrimination based on the small chance that someone might be infected.

And you have to factor in the other components. Vaccinated people can be infected and infect someone just standing next to them when they breathed - or sneezed. If the vaccines work how are the vaccinated at risk from the non-vaccinated?

Choosing not to take the vaccine is not really a choice if your livelihood is taken away from you for not having it.
Nothing wrong with discrimination. Its only unjust or irrelevant discrimination that is wrong.

we discriminate against people who dont have a drivers license from driving. We descriminate against people who perform poorly at school from getting into uni. We descriminate against men from being strippers at a stripper club for straight men. just descrimination is fine. Encouraged in fact.

if hiv was as infectious as covid and their was an asympotmatic period of infectiousness then i would argue that back in the eighties it may of been reasonable for a temporary period of time to lock down all gay people to prevent infection even if they didnt have the virus.

ofcourse it wouldnt of remained primarily in gay people for very long if it was as highly infectious making the policy all a bit mute. The reason it was primarily in gay people for the early years was because it was primarily transmissable through sex. I.e. not a signficant risk to other people So no need to seperate them from others in day to day life.

now you say its only a small chance that an unvaccinated person gets the virus. This is only true if everyone is locked down. Its not true if society is fully opened up. Which is the goal. Then the chance of getting thr virus is very high for the unvaccinated. In fact its almost certain they will get it in a couple of years under such circumstances.

whats worse? Being forced to take a vaccine that is safe and effective and protects you from a contagious virus or being forced to be locked down. Surely the latter is far far far worse. Ive had the vaccine. Its impact is utterly insignficant. It wasted an hour of my day. Virtually no side effects. The impact of lock downs has been crushing.

VAccines do work. Terribly well In both minimising serious symptoms, getting the virus and transmitting the virus. But they arent perfect. Virtually none are. That doesnt mean it doesnt work though. Not working is meaning they dont improve things at all. 0 percent efficiency. Now the dact they arent perfect and the fact that some people cant get a vaccine for medical reasons is the reason why its people responsibility to their fello man to get vaccinated. Its not a personal choice for people who want to socialise because of these two things.

just like a person must get a license to drive on a public road with other drivers and must obey the road laws a person who wants to socialise with others during a highly infectious pandemic must get a vaccine.

the driver who obeys the road rules and has a license still might be in a car crash that injures others. But the odds of being in one is much lower then if he doesnt. The same concept applies to vaccinated people in a pandemic.

people who choose not to get a license or dont want to obey road rules could claim they are being discriminated against. They would be right too. I would argue its a form of discrimination i want in society.
 
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Mar 1, 2007
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whats worse? Being forced to take a vaccine that is safe and effective and protects you from a contagious virus or being forced to be locked down. Surely the latter is far far far worse. Ive had the vaccine. Its impact is utterly insignficant. It wasted an hour of my day. Virtually no side effects. The impact of lock downs has been crushing.

Just on this one point - thats your experience and thats fine, but its not everyone's. My wife and I got ours the same day, she was fine and much like you describe - I was in bed for 2 days straight and not completely right for probably 4, sickest I've been in years.

Now don't get me wrong, I've got plenty of sick leave, happy to take one for the team. But at the same time I've never had a reaction like that from any other inoculation I've had in my life, and there's a whole range of adverse side effects that, just on the available data, are a demonstrably higher chance of occurring than for other inoculations (honestly, its exactly what you'd expect from a vaccine developed in 12 months). Not high enough to stop me from getting it, but it might be for some, everyone's different.

Its an additional wrinkle, not one that happens often enough to negate the vaccine being a net positive in our current situation imo, but a wrinkle nonetheless - and probably one that gets resolved in another 5+ years once they've actually had the same time to develop and test the vax in the same extended processes that other vaccines have gone through.
 
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two massive differences Between gay people in the 80s and unvaccinated people today.

hiv wasnt transmissable by just standing next to an infected person when they breathed.

being gay wasnt a choice. choosing not to take a vaccine is a choice.
Yeah you screwed yourself over with that argument.

Being gay is not a choice. Choosing not to abstain from higher risk homosexual activity is a choice.

It seems pretty obvious that someone like you would have have discriminated against gay people in the 80s.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Yeah you screwed yourself over with that argument.

Being gay is not a choice. Choosing not to abstain from higher risk homosexual activity is a choice.

It seems pretty obvious that someone like you would have have discriminated against gay people in the 80s.
Talk about misreading the chain of posts. I said it wasnt a choice dude. That was one of my points of how it was different from unvaccinated people.

also choose to cut off the bit where i said the policy would be mute cos an infectious disease spread through the air wouldnt contain itself to an specific group for very long
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Just on this one point - thats your experience and thats fine, but its not everyone's. My wife and I got ours the same day, she was fine and much like you describe - I was in bed for 2 days straight and not completely right for probably 4, sickest I've been in years.

Now don't get me wrong, I've got plenty of sick leave, happy to take one for the team. But at the same time I've never had a reaction like that from any other inoculation I've had in my life, and there's a whole range of adverse side effects that, just on the available data, are a demonstrably higher chance of occurring than for other inoculations (honestly, its exactly what you'd expect from a vaccine developed in 12 months). Not high enough to stop me from getting it, but it might be for some, everyone's different.

Its an additional wrinkle, not one that happens often enough to negate the vaccine being a net positive in our current situation imo, but a wrinkle nonetheless - and probably one that gets resolved in another 5+ years once they've actually had the same time to develop and test the vax in the same extended processes that other vaccines have gone through.
that is not the usual reaction and even if it was a week of being sick is still far better then the lockdowns and seperations we have faced for the past two years (Not to mention the threat of getting covid).
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Yep, totally get that argument, pretty much why I got vaxed myself (although specifically ensuring risk was as low as possible for my parents was in there too, so maybe a touch more selfish in motivation).

It would just be good to know how much we're minimising risk to everyone else, when the trade-off is looking like being restrictions on public venues and movement. Suspect that can't be accurately quantified though.
no clear stats yet but its all pointing to roughtly around the following:

25 percent less chance of getting it if you are vaccinated.

25 percent chance of passing it on if you are vaccinated and do get it.

that would reduce its transmissability by an 7 eighths. Thats significant in helping stop the virus Spread.
 
Mar 1, 2007
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that is not the usual reaction and even if it was a week of being sick is still far better then the lockdowns and seperations we have faced for the past two years (Not to mention the threat of getting covid).

Agree.

Would be cold comfort though to the families of the 10 or so people confirmed to have died from it, or the many more who have copped adverse reactions on the more serious side and are now on blood thinners or other meds for the rest of their life.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Agree.

Would be cold comfort though to the families of the 10 or so people confirmed to have died from it, or the many more who have copped adverse reactions on the more serious side and are now on blood thinners or other meds for the rest of their life.
True some people have lost it all. But thats out of 16 million who have had a vaccine dose in australia. Imagine how many deaths and long covid experiences there would be if 16 million people had the virus and none of them were vaccinated. Instead of 10 deaths it would be 100000 deaths. Probably a number of fold more as hospitals would be overrun.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Israel introduced a Covid Green Pass – a vaccine passport that allows double Pfizer vaccinated people to enter public spaces, including restaurants, hotels, clubs, cultural venues and large private gatherings. They are now changing the rules so that a third shot is required. Nearly 2 million people will lose their 'privileges' in the coming days.

The change in policy came after Israeli health officials and experts warned of a significant waning of immunity in people five or six months after their second Pfizer dose.​
Overseas studies have also shown the need for booster Pfizer doses after several months.​
A large and recent study by the University of Oxford found the efficacy of the Pfizer jab fell by 22 per cent per month – from an original 84 per cent for adults overall.​

Is this the path Australia wants to go down? Booster jabs every few months to maintain your rights to earn a living, watch a game of footy, or take your family on holiday.
Yes. Cos it has to happen. We have no choice.

maybe if we enforced all people (without medical exemptions) to get the vaccine including kids then we wouldnt need vaccines once a year.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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I would highly recommend vaccinations for the elderly and for healthcare workers. Then antibody tests, and booster shots if necessary. Also, the introduction of cheap, safe, effective treatments.

But mandatory vaccination for all to be able to live their normal lives is not justified.
And our hospitals will not last two months if that was your policy.
 
Israel introduced a Covid Green Pass – a vaccine passport that allows double Pfizer vaccinated people to enter public spaces, including restaurants, hotels, clubs, cultural venues and large private gatherings. They are now changing the rules so that a third shot is required. Nearly 2 million people will lose their 'privileges' in the coming days.

The change in policy came after Israeli health officials and experts warned of a significant waning of immunity in people five or six months after their second Pfizer dose.​
Overseas studies have also shown the need for booster Pfizer doses after several months.​
A large and recent study by the University of Oxford found the efficacy of the Pfizer jab fell by 22 per cent per month – from an original 84 per cent for adults overall.​

Is this the path Australia wants to go down? Booster jabs every few 6+ months to maintain your rights to earn a living, watch a game of footy, or take your family on holiday.
Yep, I have an Israeli Green pass as I was given my Pfizer Vaccinations in Israel. I'ii gladly get my 3rd booster shot and any others required, just like I only recently re-did most of my previous vaccinations due to working in the MER.
 

ablett

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We have to open up sooner than later Vaccines are the only way, real anti vaxxers are small in number some will die badly others maybe luckier, but anti vaxxers are simply wrong , and some of them sound like the wokery of the world and climate change, like climate change , vaxxines have been happening for 70 or 80 years as climate change has been happening for several billion years, so logic says get vaccinated, or you MAY? may die bad, or get sicker than you would if you are vaccinated.
ARE WE SURE THE ANTI-VAXXERS AREN'T GREENIE FORMER HIPPIES WITH NOTHING TO DO?
i CAN'T BELIEVE THE STUPIDITY, VACCINES CUT THE ODDS, IF YOU DON'T TAKE IT, ITS LIKE ENTERING YOUR HORSE IN A RACE WITH OUT A JOCKEY AT ALL.
YOU MIGHT WIN.............. BUT YOU CAN'T WIN! Got it?

But more people have died this year after receiving the Vaccine than people dying from COVID , all the stats are on the TGA website
Plus these ain’t vaccines so you can’t compare them to Vaccines of the past
 

ablett

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Jan 27, 2006
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I view the vaccine more like a seatbelt. I wear a seatbelt for my own protection. If the driver of the vehicle who hits me in a head-on collision isn't wearing a seatbelt, that's their problem.

The argument that unvaccinated people take up more of our limited hospital resources is probably the only valid one for mandatory vaccination afaic.
Go to any hospital and they are inundated with people rushing in after experiencing serious side effects after getting jabbed, not from people getting COVID, I know this Cos have Family treating them in Hospitals
 
But more people have died this year after receiving the Vaccine than people dying from COVID

Go to any hospital and they are inundated with people rushing in after experiencing serious side effects after getting jabbed, not from people getting COVID, I know this Cos have Family treating them in Hospitals

Stop spreading lies and bullshit.
 
Mar 1, 2007
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And our hospitals will not last two months if that was your policy.

Can't say that with certainty imo. Its a possibility, sure.

Which is an absolute indictment in itself. This was the story when covid kicked off last year, they've had 18 months to bolster the hospital system and/or build covid-specific facilities - whats been done?
 
Mar 1, 2007
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But more people have died this year after receiving the Vaccine than people dying from COVID , all the stats are on the TGA website
Plus these ain’t vaccines so you can’t compare them to Vaccines of the past

No that isn't correct - the number you're looking at there is people who have died at some point after being vaccinated, not because they were vaccinated.

The confirmed number of deaths linked to vaccine is around 10 I think.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Can't say that with certainty imo. Its a possibility, sure.

Which is an absolute indictment in itself. This was the story when covid kicked off last year, they've had 18 months to bolster the hospital system and/or build covid-specific facilities - whats been done?
Nothing been done. Its a disgrace. Whilst the media has spent too much time focusing on quarantine centres they should of been focusing on hospitals and increasing uni places for medical students.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Deroesfromgero
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east perth
True some people have lost it all. But thats out of 16 million who have had a vaccine dose in australia. Imagine how many deaths and long covid experiences there would be if 16 million people had the virus and none of them were vaccinated. Instead of 10 deaths it would be 100000 deaths. Probably a number of fold more as hospitals would be overrun.
Never ceases to amaze me at how utterly pants on head, bump uglies with your sister….. whos also your mother …. Utterly s**t thick at maths you would have to be to compare vaccine reactions with unvaccinated deaths.


Theres literally a multiple of 1000 or more better chance of serious covid death or long term effects than vaccine issues.


Would love to play poker with you lot - would absolutely clean you the funk out - you lot would be all in on inside straights every time.
 
Builders and the like - any manual labour - there’s probably a good argument for mandatory vaccination given heavy work in a dynamic workplace, close quarters, sweatin’ it up and breathin’ heavy in a manly way. Masks aren’t going to be that great and distancing isn’t going to be 100%.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Where i need to be
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Geelong
Builders and the like - any manual labour - there’s probably a good argument for mandatory vaccination given heavy work in a dynamic workplace, close quarters, sweatin’ it up and breathin’ heavy in a manly way. Masks aren’t going to be that great and distancing isn’t going to be 100%.
What about anyone that plays community sport that involves no masks and lots of sweating, breathing and even tackling. Should anyone who plays community sport also have manadatory vaccines?
 
What about anyone that plays community sport that involves no masks and lots of sweating, breathing and even tackling. Should anyone who plays community sport also have manadatory vaccines?
There’s an argument there.
 
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