We have Voss, now we have the Assistants...

[Davey33]

no comparison of needs. Bolton needed a neil craig. Teague needed one as well but only got interstate woosha via zoom and too late.
Vos to me doesnt need his hand held this time around. he is a smart man and will learn from his first stint as coach.

Whats more important is to surround Vos with highly competent assistants. We have done this. His 2 predecessors did not get this support unfortunately.

John Barker was regarded as highly competent assistant, as was Luke Power and Brett Stanton etc.
Everyones highly regarded before they start! otherwise they woukd never be hired!

Its all a familiar story and no doubt there'll be the slew of positive stories in the papers come November thru March.
I for one just hope this actually translates into results come the season proper but experience and history has shown otherwise....
Here's too a new dawn.....and hopefully a pleasant surprise when it comes season 2022....

 

[Davey33]

Not going to apologise for being optimistic.
My point is that if you drill down into the experience of Vos v BB and DT there is a vast difference. The most obvious one being that Vos has been a senior coach IIRC for 5 years at Brisbane. IMO he will learn a lot from that. You think he hasnt - fair enough- lets see if he needs a Neil Craig. But there seems a core group on BF that are demanding a Neil Craig to ease their anxiety,based simply on the 2 relatively inexperienced coaching predecessors . How many of the premiership winning senior coaches had a Neil Craig beside them when they started?

Simon Goodwin had Paul Roos. Hows that for a start.
as did Longmire.
Suppose Hardwick didnt have anyone but he was an assistant in 2008 to Clarkson.
Wheres Voss's premiership experience as an assistant.
When was he an apprentice to a master coach- dont think he was

 

[chunkylover53]

I had a bit to do with Greavesy in local footy playing days.. geez wasn't a great coach back then.

From memory he was lucky to get an Assistants role with Mark Neeld (they were mates) and was quickly turfed when that regime was ousted. I had no idea he was still in the system.

Good on him and hope he does well.

A lot of red heads coming on board.

 

[BigFrizz36]

hope that wont be an issue.
Why not move heaven and earth to get an ex senior coach while some are still available?

We have an ex senior coach. He is our head coach.

Doubt very much that he needs a full time mentor a la woosha. That's more for first time coaches who have yet to navigate the process. Vossy doesn't need that.

Pretty sure he'll be in touch with lethal on a regular basis to talk through things where he needs advice.

 

[Davey33]

We have an ex senior coach. He is our head coach.

Doubt very much that he needs a full time mentor a la woosha. That's more for first time coaches who have yet to navigate the process. Vossy doesn't need that.

Pretty sure he'll be in touch with lethal on a regular basis to talk through things where he needs advice.

Did he even coach ever under Lethal?

 

[lily of laguna]

From an onlookers POV, the coaching selection committee and Voss himself recognised the need for a strategy and game development analysts and then this guy was headhunted as someone Voss knew and rated.

Exciting to see the the comprehensive update and improvement of the entire coaching panel and support for players.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Did he even coach ever under Lethal?

No. But he has coached a team to play finals, has been a long term assistant coach for a team that has played prelims last two years and could be argued was a kick away from winning the flag in 2020.

He is vastly experienced in coaching and assistant coaching in the afl. He is an excellent media performer. We have selected him because he doesn't need training wheels. I can't imagine a single reason as to why he would need a full team figurehead mentor.

 

[Davey33]

No. But he has coached a team to play finals, has been a long term assistant coach for a team that has played prelims last two years and could be argued was a kick away from winning the flag in 2020.

He is vastly experienced in coaching and assistant coaching in the afl. He is an excellent media performer. We have selected him because he doesn't need training wheels. I can't imagine a single reason as to why he would need a full team figurehead mentor.

He got lucky with his first year at Lions (most would agree) and even luckier to win the elimination final against us if you remember (came back from 5 goals down to beat us in the last quarter).
Did some massive damage to his club losing some club champions through very flawed trading philosophies.
We know how Fev trade worked out and the results at the Lions the next few years.
Was given the flick after 4 consecutive years of failure. Took Brisbane about another 3 years to start to finally recover and become a contender.

Don't know much about his time at Port but he missed 2014 their best year (probably until even now).
Think 2020 was a compromised year due to shortened games, season and everything else. (point in case- Carlton almost beat Port mid season and we didnt even make the finals...)
So in truth how much success has he actually had?
Not an awful lot. Champion player, unproven as senior coach.

Happy that you are so confident in his ability to turn things around as a "proven coach" without training wheels. But to me he is still another massive risk with maybe even less credentials than someone like Bolton.

Time will tell and as I said I am the first to hope to beproven wrong, just not sure it will happen.

Cheers

 

[Jeremias]

He got lucky with his first year at Lions (most would agree) and even luckier to win the elimination final against us if you remember (came back from 5 goals down to beat us in the last quarter).
Did some massive damage to his club losing some club champions through very flawed trading philosophies.

So, when things went well he was lucky and not responsible, yet when things went poorly he was solely responsible?

 

[BigFrizz36]

He got lucky with his first year at Lions (most would agree) and even luckier to win the elimination final against us if you remember (came back from 5 goals down to beat us in the last quarter).
Did some massive damage to his club losing some club champions through very flawed trading philosophies.
We know how Fev trade worked out and the results at the Lions the next few years.
Was given the flick after 4 consecutive years of failure. Took Brisbane about another 3 years to start to finally recover and become a contender.

Don't know much about his time at Port but he missed 2014 their best year (probably until even now).
Think 2020 was a compromised year due to shortened games, season and everything else. (point in case- Carlton almost beat Port mid season and we didnt even make the finals...)
So in truth how much success has he actually had?
Not an awful lot. Champion player, unproven as senior coach.

Happy that you are so confident in his ability to turn things around as a "proven coach" without training wheels. But to me he is still another massive risk with maybe even less credentials than someone like Bolton.

Time will tell and as I said I am the first to hope to beproven wrong, just not sure it will happen.

Cheers

I was at the final v Brisbane. Not sure luck had a lot to do with it, we didn't put them away when we should have.

Surely we can spend soft cap money better than paying an ex coach to hold Voss's hand.

Feel free to come back and tell us you were right if it all goes badly suspect that you won't get that opportunity.

 

[Davey33]

So, when things went well he was lucky and not responsible, yet when things went poorly he was solely responsible?

Will give him credit but it was one year and it was widely seen as a surprise and somewhat lucky.
Either way it was his first year and all downhill from then on.
Just stating things the way they happened.
dont get mad at me for that.

 

[Jeremias]

Will give him credit but it was one year and it was widely seen as a surprise and somewhat lucky.
Either way it was his first year and all downhill from then on.
Just stating things the way they happened.
dont get mad at me for that.

Are you?

Seems you're indicating the Brisbane trading fiasco was entirely Voss' fault, which we know not to be the case.

Sure he had a part to play, though it is pretty widely acknowledged Graeme Allan was a main driver behind that.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Will give him credit but it was one year and it was widely seen as a surprise and somewhat lucky.
Either way it was his first year and all downhill from then on.
Just stating things the way they happened.
dont get mad at me for that.

How come he gets no credit as a senior assistant at Port for their 6 point loss in the prelim in 2020 against the tigers (who then went on to win the flag easily) ? All downhill hey? Or did he just get lucky?

 

[Davey33]

I was at the final v Brisbane. Not sure luck had a lot to do with it, we didn't put them away when we should have.

Surely we can spend soft cap money better than paying an ex coach to hold Voss's hand.

Feel free to come back and tell us you were right if it all goes badly suspect that you won't get that opportunity.

So as you are saying it, they shouldn't have even won that final.
Only makes my case stronger.
I think it would be a very prudent choice to hire a senior assistant (ex senior coach) not just to hold his hand but to help direct coaching operations and provide valuable insight and experience.

I also hope Im wrong. Would love nothing better than to be assured of Carlton making finals in 2022.
Lets see it

 

[Davey33]

How come he gets no credit as a senior assistant at Port for their 6 point loss in the prelim in 2020 against the tigers (who then went on to win the flag easily) ? All downhill hey? Or did he just get lucky?

he get credit but it was a compromised and tainted season.
Thats a fact.
So its worth less credit than a regular season.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

So, when things went well he was lucky and not responsible, yet when things went poorly he was solely responsible?

That’s how I read it…

 

[BigFrizz36]

So as you are saying it, they shouldn't have even won that final.
Only makes my case stronger.
I think it would be a very prudent choice to hire a senior assistant (ex senior coach) not just to hold his hand but to help direct coaching operations and provide valuable insight and experience.

I also hope Im wrong. Would love nothing better than to be assured of Carlton making finals in 2022.
Lets see it

Your case seems to hinge on whether the lions were lucky to beat us in a final many years ago. Clearly they weren't lucky. They scored more than us. Seems a bit strange.

 

[BigFrizz36]

he get credit but it was a compromised and tainted season.
Thats a fact.
So its worth less credit than a regular season.

So the Tigers premiership isn't a real premiership? Our good win over the dogs doesn't count?

Let it go. You've made your point (albeit in a strange way). Time at least for me to move on.

 

[Davey33]

Are you?

Seems you're indicating the Brisbane trading fiasco was entirely Voss' fault, which we know not to be the case.

Sure he had a part to play, though it is pretty widely acknowledged Graeme Allan was a main driver behind that.

"Despite being the man responsible for the Fevola trade, coach Michael Voss said yesterday that he agreed "100 per cent" with the Lions' decision to tear up Fevola's contract.

While clearly gutted over the ill-fated Fevola deal, Voss baulked when asked if he had any regrets.

"I don't know about regret," he said. "You recruit a player on the premise that they are going to make you better, that's what we hoped to get and clearly we didn't get that.

"I can't sit here and say it wasn't a mistake because obviously he has left our football club."

Think he was largely held responsible for a pretty shocking trade period all round that year for them.
He also lost a club stalwart and champion in Bradshaw, all because he overestimated the Lions situation and thought they were in a premiership window.
Remember it pretty clearly that way (why else recruit Fevola when you have Brown and Bradshaw), and it blew up in his face.
Those are the facts, and Brisbane werent much better 2011-12

 

[Davey33]

So the Tigers premiership isn't a real premiership? Our good win over the dogs doesn't count?

Let it go. You've made your point (albeit in a strange way). Time at least for me to move on.

Not as good as their premierships in 2017 and 19. No

 

[Davey33]

So the Tigers premiership isn't a real premiership? Our good win over the dogs doesn't count?

Let it go. You've made your point (albeit in a strange way). Time at least for me to move on.

looking at the bigger picture mate.
Fair point is fair point.
You are welcome to move on

 

[Jeremias]

Those are the facts

No, those are your opinions. I'm not sure anything you've put forward here has been factual.

Citing a random uncredited article doesn't add weight to anything being factual either.

 

[Davey33]

How come he gets no credit as a senior assistant at Port for their 6 point loss in the prelim in 2020 against the tigers (who then went on to win the flag easily) ? All downhill hey? Or did he just get lucky?

more credit than Bolton for being a triple premiership assistant coach???
and howd that turn out.

Bottom line is Michael Voss was a bad senior coach in his stint at the Lions and coached them to their worst results in 10+ years until before the Leigh Matthews era ( dont believe me, look it up yourself).
The worst results in his own history at the club.
Was he a champion player and captain in Brisbanes golden era? Yes he was. But he was a bad senior coach and the results prove it.
Did he contribute to Powers success in the past 6 years, Im sure he did to some extent but to how much none of us are sure.

Is he a good and prudent appointment for the CFC. Think most honest and objective fans would doubt that.
Can I and do I hope to be wrong about all this?
Absolutely

 

[Davey33]

No, those are your opinions. I'm not sure anything you've put forward here has been factual.

Citing a random uncredited article doesn't add weight to anything being factual either.

The facts are he was a bad senior coach in his stint at the Lions.
The facts are (and proven by statistics) he coached Brisbane to their worst results since before Leigh Matthews took over (over a decade).
Those are not my opinions.
If you dont believe me, look it up for yourself

 

[Davey33]

I really hope we get an experienced senior assistant. The last time I thought we were well coached was when Neil Craig was supporting Bolton.

Is it too late to hope Carlton does this?