Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[mcnulty]

From what I gather, he uses it as a label for activists he regards as obsessed with group identity and equality of outcome, who seek to remake society with that objective in mind.

Whether that truly makes them Marxists is of course debatable but that's his meaning, as far as I can discern.

Of course they’re not Marxists. I suspect he knows that. But it helps sell books.

 

[Gough]

And what are its objectives?

Equality of opportunity. For some reason your boy has a problem with this.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Equality of opportunity. For some reason your boy has a problem with this.

No, he explicitly supports equality of opportunity. He objects to equality of outcome being imposed.

He's too keen on religion to be "my boy".

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Again, why? He hasn't positioned himself as a commentator on US electoral politics.

I think this is an unfair criticism.

He absolutely speaks on US electoral politics.

Ignoring that, he discusses perceived identity politics of the left, has he addressed the white nationalist movement on the right?

 

[Gough]

No, he explicitly supports equality of opportunity. He objects to equality of outcome being imposed.

He's too keen on religion to be "my boy".

Who's imposing equality of outcome?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Who's imposing equality of outcome?

who's even suggesting it?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

He absolutely speaks on US electoral politics.

I didn't say he has an embargo on it. I said he has not positioned himself as a commentator on it specifically, so I'm not sure what you think he should have been saying.

Ignoring that, he discusses perceived identity politics of the left, has he addressed the white nationalist movement on the right?

That's hard for me to answer specifically.

I do recall hearing him ask "how do we know when the left goes too far?" And in the next sentence explaining that "we know the right has gone too far" when it starts leaning into notions of racial hierarchies, white nationalism etc.

I'd say that qualifies?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Who's imposing equality of outcome?

who's even suggesting it?

Some folks claim it's desirable.

 

[Gough]

Some folks claim it's desirable.

Who?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Who?

The likes of Ibram X. Kendi argue that any disparity in outcomes between different racial groups is inherently "racist".

In the video I posted earlier, Cathy Newman advocates for equality of outcome when discussing the gender pay gap.

Surely you know that some folks have been arguing for equality of outcome? It's not uncommon. You don't need to look very hard to find people making that case.

 

[Gough]

The likes of Ibram X. Kendi argue that any disparity in outcomes between different racial groups is inherently "racist".

In the video I posted earlier, Cathy Newman advocates for equality of outcome when discussing the gender pay gap.

Surely you know that some folks have been arguing for equality of outcome? It's not uncommon.

If it's not uncommon, cough up. I don't see it as being anything but a niche doctrine anywhere.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If it's not uncommon, cough up. I don't see it as being anything but a niche doctrine anywhere.

I provided you with two examples immediately.

Whether they're niche or not depends how you define "niche".

 

[Gough]

I provided you with two examples immediately.

Is paying just over fifty percent of the workforce the same wage for the same work equality of outcome or simply equality?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Is paying just over fifty percent of the workforce the same wage for the same work equality of outcome or simply equality?

That depends if the work is indeed the same. As Peterson explains in the video, the disparity may not be explained entirely by gender.

Do you accept that some folks do in fact argue for equality of outcome?

The information has been provided if you want it.

Are you unfamiliar with Kendi's arguments?

 

[Gough]

That depends if the work is indeed the same. As Peterson explains in the video, the disparity may not be explained entirely by gender.

Do you accept that some folks do in fact argue for equality of outcome?

The information has been provided if you want it.

Are you unfamiliar with Kendi's arguments?

Peterson has taken a position argued by a small group of people and attempted to march it into the mainstream because it suits his argument.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Peterson has taken a position argued by a small group of people and attempted to march it into the mainstream because it suits his argument.

You can't just keep asserting this in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I've linked you to an interview where a journalist on a very mainstream British channel argues for equality of outcome when it comes to gender.

And here's Kendi arguing for equality of outcome on race. And you're "racist" if you don't support it:

Racial inequity is when two or more racial groups are not standing on approximately equal footing. Here’s an example of racial inequity: 71 percent of White families lived in owner-occupied homes in 2014, compared to 45 percent of Latinx families and 41 percent of Black families. Racial equity is when two or more racial groups are standing on a relatively equal footing. An example of racial equity would be if there were relatively equitable percentages of all three racial groups living in owner-occupied homes in the forties, seventies, or, better, nineties.

A racist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial inequity between racial groups.

Also consider the way Harvard marks down otherwise high-achieving Asian American applicants on arbitrary criteria, part of alleged "racial balancing" designed to promote equality of outcome.

What more do you need to accept that the argument for equality of outcome is being made more widely than you thought?

Honestly, do you think I'm just making this up as I go along?

Surely you've been around long enough to know that I'm probably right.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I get the impression that some left-leaning folks are too accustomed to debating unlettered Trump fans who don't know anything.

That's fine. I have also been known to fillet these cretins for my own amusement.

But it won't keep you afloat when you sail toward Sweet Jesus, the Colossus of pure reason. Your half-formed arguments are tiny ships doomed to be splintered and strewn at my feet.

Let them come, Chief, let them come.

 

[mcnulty]

He's infatuated with the attention he gets from culture warriors. And I can’t really blame him. Nice little earner. Now if he was only honest about the nexus between money and ideas, he wouldn’t beclown himself with some of the language he uses.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

He's infatuated with the attention he gets from culture warriors. And I can’t really blame him. Nice little earner. Now if he was only honest about the nexus between money and ideas, he wouldn’t beclown himself with some of the language he uses.

I think this misrepresents him. You don't have to be a RW culture warrior to appreciate some of his work.

I think a lot of his criticisms of identity politics, for example, align quite neatly with what was once the default liberal position.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I think this misrepresents him. You don't have to be a RW culture warrior to appreciate some of his work.

I think a lot of his criticisms of identity politics, for example, align quite neatly with what was once the default liberal position.

yeah, things change. If you're using the post 1964 liberal position as the default, it's easy to see why you see positives in Peterson.

He has provided a defense for social and racial hierarchies.

 

[Seeds]

I don't think it's reasonable to reduce all his positions to a debatable use of the term "Marxist".

If someone criticised Trump while erroneously describing him as "fascist", would that invalidate the entire critique?

Trump is a fascist dude. You are the one being erronous to assume he isnt. the majority of what he says and does points to a desire for facism.

 

[Seeds]

I think this misrepresents him. You don't have to be a RW culture warrior to appreciate some of his work.

I think a lot of his criticisms of identity politics, for example, align quite neatly with what was once the default liberal position.

His criticisms of identity politics are just plain obvious. I agree with them in the same way i agree with a dog that its a good thing to breathe. i dont appreciate the dog for its decision.

peterson is an utter moron Peddling irrational snake oil.

 

[Jibroni]

Trump is a fascist dude. You are the one being erronous to assume he isnt. the majority of what he says and does points to a desire for facism.

Jo Biden says hello

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Jo Biden says hello

Why?

 

[Jibroni]

Why?

He is no better than Trump