List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[Slainte]

His bias is towards Hawthorn players. So if he reckons it's bad there may just be something in that lol

Nash's kicking has improved a lot. He can get good distance and his accuracy both at goal and in the field of play is quite good. The main weakness is that it is still not completely natural for him and he is a fraction slow to get the ball to boot. This is partially compensated for by the speed of his hands - he dishes it out as quickly and accurately as anyone.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Nash's kicking has improved a lot. He can get good distance and his accuracy both at goal and in the field of play is quite good. The main weakness is that it is still not completely natural for him and he is a fraction slow to get the ball to boot. This is partially compensated for by the speed of his hands - he dishes it out as quickly and accurately as anyone.

Yup his noticeble slow in getting the ball to foot, if he works on this over the break will help give him more confidence in going for a quick kick. Confidence will create the biggest impact on Nash’s game

 

[cryptor]

Nash's kicking has improved a lot. He can get good distance and his accuracy both at goal and in the field of play is quite good. The main weakness is that it is still not completely natural for him and he is a fraction slow to get the ball to boot. This is partially compensated for by the speed of his hands - he dishes it out as quickly and accurately as anyone.

He's improved rapidly since joining the AFL. Better than average kick for a bloke his size.

 

[Pessimistic]

Very good field kick, in 2018 was a shambles in front of the sticks but seemed to have improved this also by this year

‘yep he had some very iffy kicking for goal. He is capable but it’s the time, space, decision, execution under pressure which will be revealed. In his last very good midfield games, it was very much KISS time

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Just because your bias blinds you doesn't mean it's not true.
Nash is a very good field kick.

Bias? I like Nash but his technique just looks awkward asf, i've never seen him genuinely hit a target with a low penetrated kick, or even a high level kick.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He didn’t even poll the most Brownlow votes in the second half of the year. Wines did with 21. Add in Mitchell overpolls. I would put his end of the year level with Miller who didn’t drop below 30 disposals from round 6 on.

Wines, Petracca, Oliver, Walsh and Bont were clearly playing a level above Mitchell’s end of the year.

It’s not a Worps or Mitchell issue. It’s that given they way they play and how they both get exposed defensively especially when teams run the ball forward. Both are always trailing their man and no were near close enough to stop them.

Same issue with Mitch, JOM and Wings. We need a full defensive midfielder in there Nash, Duke etc at least at each bounce. Someone to try and stop the opposition walking it out of there constantly.

Worps can either do one or the other attack or defend, he hasn’t got the balance right. Mitchell will tackle when the guy gets between him and the ball. But in open play he is very slack defensively. It’s part of how he finds so much of it the other way.

Our centre square needs work. Ideally offensively to get high quality clearances. But the most important step first is to stop teams getting high quality clearances against us. Teams have done it so often the last 2 years. Mitchell and Worps in their together is a recipe for disaster unless both massively improve their defensive game.

You just lost every little bit of trust with saying Bont was above his level late in the year, Bont was one of the worst mids late in the year, he didn't win the Brownlow because he shat his pants late in the year and was fooken terrible. They don't get exposed defensively, again both are good tacklers and i feel both are good defensively, it's mostly the whole defensive 3 or even wings 4/5 together. I remember we had Finn, Worps and Titch inside with Cousins and Howe/Shiels? as the wings. It's the unit as a whole.

But yeah Titch was the best mid post bye, Wines was also one of the best and so was Steele. Bont was not close.

Titch is one of our best runners, he runs both ways well, not sure where you get this from.

Still i disagree badly.

 

[Pessimistic]

Bias? I like Nash but his technique just looks awkward asf, i've never seen him genuinely hit a target with a low penetrated kick, or even a high level kick.

well just take it from those that have seen it

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Bias? I like Nash but his technique just looks awkward asf, i've never seen him genuinely hit a target with a low penetrated kick, or even a high level kick.

You should try watching the games.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You should try watching the games.

lolololol

 

[H00t]

You just lost every little bit of trust with saying Bont was above his level late in the year, Bont was one of the worst mids late in the year, he didn't win the Brownlow because he shat his pants late in the year and was fooken terrible. They don't get exposed defensively, again both are good tacklers and i feel both are good defensively, it's mostly the whole defensive 3 or even wings 4/5 together. I remember we had Finn, Worps and Titch inside with Cousins and Howe/Shiels? as the wings. It's the unit as a whole.

But yeah Titch was the best mid post bye, Wines was also one of the best and so was Steele. Bont was not close.

Titch is one of our best runners, he runs both ways well, not sure where you get this from.

Still i disagree badly.

You said the last half. Bont had a couple of poor games late in the year but also had a lot of damaging games also. Mitchell doesn’t have those damaging games. And while his possession numbers were up his contested possessions where still pretty low.

Wines, Petracca and Oliver were clearly better.

Tackles are just one part of being defensive. I’ve lost count of how many times opposition teams have streamed out the middle against us with Mitchell lagging behind. Worps gets sucked in to the contest and his man gets goal-side which is how he gets burnt.

Mitchell his man runs past him. Combined it makes for a bad time. It’s why Nash and Duke changed it up when they were in there. The extra defensive pressure they provided stopped teams being able to walk it out as easily and gave our defence more of a chance.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You said the last half. Bont had a couple of poor games late in the year but also had a lot of damaging games also. Mitchell doesn’t have those damaging games. And while his possession numbers were up his contested possessions where still pretty low.

Wines, Petracca and Oliver were clearly better.

Tackles are just one part of being defensive. I’ve lost count of how many times opposition teams have streamed out the middle against us with Mitchell lagging behind. Worps gets sucked in to the contest and his man gets goal-side which is how he gets burnt.

Mitchell his man runs past him. Combined it makes for a bad time. It’s why Nash and Duke changed it up when they were in there. The extra defensive pressure they provided stopped teams being able to walk it out as easily and gave our defence more of a chance.

A couple? Bont was *ing terrible late in the year, Mitchell literally dominated the Dees mate, the Pies and so on, you can't say he wasn't damaging that's just a bunch of complete bs mate.

No chance.

You're not expecting Mitchell to chase down someone who had the ball tapped down his throat. Not many would but it's more the defensive player and person at the edge of the square, being able to read taps but the thing is, Reeves in or Ceglar playing well we usually did have that, it was mostly just when Ceglar wasn't competing and was just standing there looking at the other ruck.

Yeah still disagree lad.

 

[H00t]

A couple? Bont was f*n terrible late in the year, Mitchell literally dominated the Dees mate, the Pies and so on, you can't say he wasn't damaging that's just a bunch of complete bs mate.

No chance.

You're not expecting Mitchell to chase down someone who had the ball tapped down his throat. Not many would but it's more the defensive player and person at the edge of the square, being able to read taps but the thing is, Reeves in or Ceglar playing well we usually did have that, it was mostly just when Ceglar wasn't competing and was just standing there looking at the other ruck.

Yeah still disagree lad.

We must have different ideas of dominate. Mitchell was pretty good against Melbourne but he wasn’t dominant. Dees mids pumped us out of the middle. Pies game was a glorified VFL such was the pressure and it was a big stats game from Mitchell but not really dominant.

Bont took games by the scruff of the neck in the last half of the year. Mitchell didn’t. And both were behind a number of players to finish the year.

There are numerous occasions each game where Mitchell let’s his man just run off him and get involved in the play. This occurs at stoppages and open play. Ruckman or no ruckman it’s just not good enough, especially as we kept putting Mitchell in the defensive spot. Add in Worpel struggling with his defensive side and it’s a bad combo.

 

[Yardie]

We must have different ideas of dominate. Mitchell was pretty good against Melbourne but he wasn’t dominant. Dees mids pumped us out of the middle. Pies game was a glorified VFL such was the pressure and it was a big stats game from Mitchell but not really dominant.

Bont took games by the scruff of the neck in the last half of the year. Mitchell didn’t. And both were behind a number of players to finish the year.

There are numerous occasions each game where Mitchell let’s his man just run off him and get involved in the play. This occurs at stoppages and open play. Ruckman or no ruckman it’s just not good enough, especially as we kept putting Mitchell in the defensive spot. Add in Worpel struggling with his defensive side and it’s a bad combo.

I think everyone forgets that the Melbourne game was played in the wet. Leveled the playing field and Reeves pretty much tagged Gawn.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Nash's kicking has improved a lot. He can get good distance and his accuracy both at goal and in the field of play is quite good. The main weakness is that it is still not completely natural for him and he is a fraction slow to get the ball to boot. This is partially compensated for by the speed of his hands - he dishes it out as quickly and accurately as anyone.

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

You will incur the wrath of Tassie Cryptic for this

 

[Shot of Jaeger]

You should try watching the games.

Or unfollow him like I did a long time ago.

 

[Pessimistic]

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

Notice I did use the key word IF. We are talking about a 25 gamer here

 

[KermitJagger]

Nash's kicking has improved a lot. He can get good distance and his accuracy both at goal and in the field of play is quite good. The main weakness is that it is still not completely natural for him and he is a fraction slow to get the ball to boot. This is partially compensated for by the speed of his hands - he dishes it out as quickly and accurately as anyone.

To be fair to Nash it might be as much of a by-product of being close to 200cm than it is a lack of familiarity. A lot of tall guys can't get ball to boot quickly.

 

[Yardie]

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

His handballing under pressure was really good at the end of the year. Chose best option rather than just handball to someone under pressure.

 

[Scrads]

Update of our list details!



Whilst I am growing more confident, I will still put a disclaimer that this is based on information from a range of sources and may not actually be 100% accurate and I am happy to fix up anything that needs it if you can provide a source. Some other notes:

- There has been confirmation that at this stage, Reeves is our only rookie elevation. It has been suggested by Marc McGowan that we may elect to upgrade one or several rookies after the National Draft depending on what happens and who is available at later picks. The added advantage of this would be that we would actually take 6 picks into the draft (even if we only end up using 4 or so) which may be useful if doing some trading with other teams (especially where academy bids are involved).

- Fionn O'Hara has of course been added, however I couldn't find an exact DOB for him (from only a brief look, admittedly) but it is known that he is 19 so I have done that manually for now. If anyone knows please flick me a reply!


In terms of the flexibility we have for the drafts, I think these are the options of what we can do:

- Take 6 x ND picks, upgrade 0-2 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0 x RD picks
- Take 5 x ND picks, upgrade 1-3 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-1 x RD picks
- Take 4 x ND picks, upgrade 2-4 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-2 x RD picks
- Take 3 x ND picks, upgrade 3-5 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-3 x RD picks

The options do continue beyond that, but the next one along would require us taking only 2 ND picks and I don't think that's reasonable given we've already said we want to go to the draft this year so I can't see how we'd only end up taking 2 picks (and would mean we'd trade one of our top 25 picks into next year as we wouldn't just leave it to die, obviously). I think the most likely eventual case will be taking either 4 or 5 ND picks and 1-2 x RD picks.

EDIT: also should add, given the success of Bramble, Newcombe and to a lesser degree, Callow, we may also be looking to have guaranteed open spots for the SSP and MSD next year which means we'd need to take less than the max spots available in the RD to do so. Those spots can also open up due to early retirements (unlikely) or players getting an LTI as well, though.

 

[Slainte]

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

As quickly as anyone in our current team - not in the history of the game.

 

[bigmaxi]

Update of our list details!

View attachment 1276470

Whilst I am growing more confident, I will still put a disclaimer that this is based on information from a range of sources and may not actually be 100% accurate and I am happy to fix up anything that needs it if you can provide a source. Some other notes:

- There has been confirmation that at this stage, Reeves is our only rookie elevation. It has been suggested by Marc McGowan that we may elect to upgrade one or several rookies after the National Draft depending on what happens and who is available at later picks. The added advantage of this would be that we would actually take 6 picks into the draft (even if we only end up using 4 or so) which may be useful if doing some trading with other teams (especially where academy bids are involved).

- Fionn O'Hara has of course been added, however I couldn't find an exact DOB for him (from only a brief look, admittedly) but it is known that he is 19 so I have done that manually for now. If anyone knows please flick me a reply!


In terms of the flexibility we have for the drafts, I think these are the options of what we can do:

- Take 6 x ND picks, upgrade 0-2 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0 x RD picks
- Take 5 x ND picks, upgrade 1-3 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-1 x RD picks
- Take 4 x ND picks, upgrade 2-4 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-2 x RD picks
- Take 3 x ND picks, upgrade 3-5 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-3 x RD picks

The options do continue beyond that, but the next one along would require us taking only 2 ND picks and I don't think that's reasonable given we've already said we want to go to the draft this year so I can't see how we'd only end up taking 2 picks (and would mean we'd trade one of our top 25 picks into next year as we wouldn't just leave it to die, obviously). I think the most likely eventual case will be taking either 4 or 5 ND picks and 1-2 x RD picks.

EDIT: also should add, given the success of Bramble, Newcombe and to a lesser degree, Callow, we may also be looking to have guaranteed open spots for the SSP and MSD next year which means we'd need to take less than the max spots available in the RD to do so. Those spots can also open up due to early retirements (unlikely) or players getting an LTI as well, though.

Thanks for this, I’m thinking 4 ND picks, possible rookie upgrade to score another RD pick and leave one for the MSD . I’m pretty bullish given the lack of games last two years 2022 VFL is going to uncover some gold.

 

[hawkman]

I doubt Sammy Mitchell, Diesel or Scott West feel challenged.

As a midfielder, because that's where it looks like he is heading, he is definitely bottom quartile for kicking and probably there for handball too. I think he's made to look less terrible with his kicking because Tom Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all below average too.

Need to lose the rose tinted glasses a bit.

His kicking is adequate. Not a horrible kick but definitely bottom half at least

Disagree with the handball though, thought he gave us some brilliant ones late in the season. Only problem was they were genuine handballs so that is already a disadvantage against teams like the Bulldogs

 

[chopflop]

Update of our list details!

View attachment 1276470

Whilst I am growing more confident, I will still put a disclaimer that this is based on information from a range of sources and may not actually be 100% accurate and I am happy to fix up anything that needs it if you can provide a source. Some other notes:

- There has been confirmation that at this stage, Reeves is our only rookie elevation. It has been suggested by Marc McGowan that we may elect to upgrade one or several rookies after the National Draft depending on what happens and who is available at later picks. The added advantage of this would be that we would actually take 6 picks into the draft (even if we only end up using 4 or so) which may be useful if doing some trading with other teams (especially where academy bids are involved).

- Fionn O'Hara has of course been added, however I couldn't find an exact DOB for him (from only a brief look, admittedly) but it is known that he is 19 so I have done that manually for now. If anyone knows please flick me a reply!


In terms of the flexibility we have for the drafts, I think these are the options of what we can do:

- Take 6 x ND picks, upgrade 0-2 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0 x RD picks
- Take 5 x ND picks, upgrade 1-3 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-1 x RD picks
- Take 4 x ND picks, upgrade 2-4 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-2 x RD picks
- Take 3 x ND picks, upgrade 3-5 x current Cat A rookies, sign 0-1 x Cat B rookies, use 0-3 x RD picks

The options do continue beyond that, but the next one along would require us taking only 2 ND picks and I don't think that's reasonable given we've already said we want to go to the draft this year so I can't see how we'd only end up taking 2 picks (and would mean we'd trade one of our top 25 picks into next year as we wouldn't just leave it to die, obviously). I think the most likely eventual case will be taking either 4 or 5 ND picks and 1-2 x RD picks.

EDIT: also should add, given the success of Bramble, Newcombe and to a lesser degree, Callow, we may also be looking to have guaranteed open spots for the SSP and MSD next year which means we'd need to take less than the max spots available in the RD to do so. Those spots can also open up due to early retirements (unlikely) or players getting an LTI as well, though.

Wow great job...

Next summer looks to be a massive list overhaul.
Can't see the following players as Hawks beyond next year

McEvoy
Shiels
Gunston
Hartigan

And for trade, I assume the same names will be on the block and blokes like Phillips, Howe or Morrison could be in trouble if they don't have good years.

Can see 8 list changes next year easily and on top of the 11 this year, that's a massive re-tooling in just two years.

 

[VandoHawk]

Wow great job...

Next summer looks to be a massive list overhaul.
Can't see the following players as Hawks beyond next year

McEvoy
Shiels
Gunston
Hartigan

And for trade, I assume the same names will be on the block and blokes like Phillips, Howe or Morrison could be in trouble if they don't have good years.

Can see 8 list changes next year easily and on top of the 11 this year, that's a massive re-tooling in just two years.

We had 11 or 12 the previous year too. It may not feel like it but our list has undergone a major overhaul since we committed to rebuilding mid 2020.