Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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Keystone agony said:
You have Francis missing? Going smaller?

I can definitely see the coaches keeping him in there, I can also see him dropping his head and smoking once dropped so wouldn't be great around the group. I hope he's a bit more mature than that but he just seems so competitive which is a good thing.

He probably starts the year well IF he has a big preseason and the coaches showed how much role players like Snelling are valued and I believe Dev Smith was around a similar mark to him for pressure acts
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Tall: Wright, Jones, Francis
Small: Walla, Snelling, Smith

Seems the most likely starting forward line in 2022. The midfield + bench will then have 8 midfielders some of whom will also rotate through the forward line, including Stringer, Langford and Shiel.

Waterman, Perkins, Hird as depth plus the young talls.
 
Ants said:
Tall: Wright, Jones, Francis
Small: Walla, Snelling, Smith

Seems the most likely starting forward line in 2022. The midfield + bench will then have 8 midfielders some of whom will also rotate through the forward line, including Stringer, Langford and Shiel.

Waterman, Perkins, Hird as depth plus the young talls.
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Oh right yeh now I remember

No Perkins best 22? Fairly big call that

Ambrosia said:
Im sick of D.Smiths undisciplined acts but he finished the season off quite well with 9 goals in 7 games.
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I get worried about measuring him on goals because as you say he's so undisciplined, calls for the ball when he shouldn't and has shots at goal when there's better options. As you say if he can kick 27 goals for a year than maybe that's OK.

I think he was good in his last couple of weeks

His best part of his game is his pressure it seems which I'm fine with that, just would prefer a Perkins and Francis over him especially considering where there at in their career as a forward at AFL level. Plenty of potential progression/upside
 
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Keystone agony said:
Oh right yeh now I remember

No Perkins best 22? Fairly big call that
….
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Why? In his last 5 games he cracked double digit possessions twice (10 & 12), scored 3 goals total and once had more than 1 tackle in the game. He only played due to lack of depth and for experience. He was a liability.

In those same games Smith averaged 16 disposals, 1.4 goals and 3.4 tackles a match. Waterman played the last 4 and easily beats Perkins on goals and tackles.

Now, Perkins has great promise and may step up over the preseason. But until I’ve seen more I’m not putting him in the best 22 on hope and promise
 

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Ants said:
Why? In his last 5 games he cracked double digit possessions twice (10 & 12), scored 3 goals total and once had more than 1 tackle in the game. He only played due to lack of depth and for experience. He was a liability.

In those same games Smith averaged 16 disposals, 1.4 goals and 3.4 tackles a match. Waterman played the last 4 and easily beats Perkins on goals and tackles.

Now, Perkins has great promise and may step up over the preseason. But until I’ve seen more I’m not putting him in the best 22 on hope and promise
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I'm just of the opinion that we have to get as many games into Perkins at all cost asap

I also really like what he does forward at the moment, I think his speed/agility and ability to get across the ground stands out when you have Waterman, Stringer, Francis, Wright, Dev, Snelling, Tippa there (None are great athletes)

I think alot relies on a guy like Perkins on his ability to step up and with us contending, not saying that will occur next year, but we just further delay this.

I'm also not against giving him a 5-6 week stint later in the year as a pure inside mid in the VFL if he hasn't been able to get enough minutes there during the season in the AFL

I also know you can't just pick guys if there getting 5 disposals every week because there a top 10 pick but I see the huge upside and importance to our next step in 2023-24
 
Ants said:
Why? In his last 5 games he cracked double digit possessions twice (10 & 12), scored 3 goals total and once had more than 1 tackle in the game. He only played due to lack of depth and for experience. He was a liability.
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Not the first time a young player has run out of gas and won't be the last either.
 
Keystone agony said:
……

I'm also not against giving him a 5-6 week stint later in the year as a pure inside mid in the VFL if he hasn't been able to get enough minutes there during the season in the AFL
…..
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I think he needs to earn his spot, and short of injuries expect him to start the year in the midfield at VFL level.
GUMBLETRON said:
Not the first time a young player has run out of gas and won't be the last either.
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Of course not. But on a season basis both Waterman and Smith were better. I’m not assuming Perkins will be in until he shows it. Same with Cox.
 
Ants said:
I think he needs to earn his spot, and short of injuries expect him to start the year in the midfield at VFL level.

Of course not. But on a season basis both Waterman and Smith were better. I’m not assuming Perkins will be in until he shows it. Same with Cox.
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You'd expect a 25 year old and 28 year old to have a better season. It's more who's better in 12-18 months time?

I don't want a player gifted games just because their pick 6 but I think we showed we're willing to drop him and he needs to work
 
So if I have it correctly (no guarantee) we have
  • 33 senior listed players including Kelly and upgrading Snelling
  • 3 Rookies (Baldwin, Durham, Waterman)
  • 2 Cat B (Hird and McBride)
Considering that list changes are staying the same for next year, that means we can have 36-38 senior players and 4-6 rookies depending on how many senior list spots we use. Our options are:
  • 3 National Draft picks and up to 3 Rookies
  • 4 ND picks and up to 2 Rookies
  • 5 ND picks and 1 additional rookie (unlikely)
I wonder if we try and pair 51 and 56 together to try and move up (say one of WBD picks 43-45) and use a F1/F2 to pick up another pick in the first 30 picks. That's still 3 picks and allows us to still get two rookies.
 
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TheGrizz said:
So if I have it correctly (no guarantee) we have
  • 33 senior listed players including Kelly and upgrading Snelling
  • 4 Rookies (Baldwin, Durham, Waterman and McBride)
  • 1 Cat B (Hird)
Considering that list changes are staying the same for next year, that means we can have 36-38 senior players and 4-6 rookies depending on how many senior list spots we use. Our options are:
  • 2 National Draft picks (+ Snelling upgrade) and up to 3 Rookie picks (SSP counts as Rookie pick)
  • 3 ND picks and up to 2 Rookies
  • 4 ND picks and up to 1 Rookie
  • 5 ND picks and no additional rookies (unlikely)
I wonder if we try and pair 51 and 56 together to try and move up (say one of WBD picks 43-45) and use a F1/F2 to pick up another pick in the first 30 picks. That's still 3 picks and allows us to still get two rookies.
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McBride is seemingly Cat B. But otherwise, yes.
 
Snelling guaranteed of being upgraded? I doubt he is unless it can happen post afl draft

But yes we have 5 open list spots for the draft (Not that we will use them all)
 
Keystone agony said:
Snelling guaranteed of being upgraded? I doubt he is unless it can happen post afl draft

But yes we have 5 open list spots for the draft (Not that we will use them all)
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He has to be upgraded.
 
Keystone agony said:
Snelling guaranteed of being upgraded? I doubt he is unless it can happen post afl draft

But yes we have 5 open list spots for the draft (Not that we will use them all)
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I think that you can promote after the draft, but that is why it would be valuable to hold him on the rookie list till next year. Then you can keep a slot open for him which can be used as points to match bids, then promote him after the draft.
eth-dog said:
He has to be upgraded.
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I understand this has changed. The AFL changed the rules this year so players impacted by Covid in 2020 on the rookie list can spend an extra year there.
 

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Keystone agony said:
You'd expect a 25 year old and 28 year old to have a better season. It's more who's better in 12-18 months time?

I don't want a player gifted games just because their pick 6 but I think we showed we're willing to drop him and he needs to work
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That’s fine, but you seem to be agreeing with me that they’re performing better right now. Given my original post said one of the ways to improve the side was for a player outside the best 22, including Perkins, to push Smith out of the side, I don’t think we’re a million miles apart here.
 
Ants said:
That’s fine, but you seem to be agreeing with me that they’re performing better right now. Given my original post said one of the ways to improve the side was for a player outside the best 22, including Perkins, to push Smith out of the side, I don’t think we’re a million miles apart here.
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They probably marginally had better seasons last year but I expect Perkins after another PS and considering he barely played the year beforehand to be past them relatively early in the year and maybe even in PS

Plus as I said I'd pick him regardless over the 2 because I like his speed, agility, upside and ability to cover the ground in our front half he's cat like. I'm not saying the same for any of Snelling, Dev, Stringer, 2MP, Francis, Waterman so he offers us a different look. I think we have to be careful about how slow we are in front of the pill, it's a balance we need to find and I think Archie helps with that

I don't think the difference in output right now is enough to warrant picking the 2 over him
 
Keystone agony said:
They probably marginally had better seasons last year but I expect Perkins after another PS and considering he barely played the year beforehand to be past them relatively early in the year and maybe even in PS

Plus as I said I'd pick him regardless over the 2 because I like his speed, agility, upside and ability to cover the ground in our front half he's cat like. I'm not saying the same for any of Snelling, Dev, Stringer, 2MP, Francis, Waterman so he offers us a different look. I think we have to be careful about how slow we are in front of the pill, it's a balance we need to find and I think Archie helps with that

I don't think the difference in output right now is enough to warrant picking the 2 over him
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The two ahead of him in my best 22 we’re Smith and Snelling. Perkins isn’t particularly quicker or more capable of covering the ground than either of them. He has other strengths (marking, disposal) but right now isn’t best 22.

You’ve pretty much admitting you’re picking him on potential and to get experience. Which is equivalent of saying he’s not best 22 right now based on his own merits.

Which is why I said him pushing Smith out was a source of internal improvement
 
Ants said:
The two ahead of him in my best 22 we’re Smith and Snelling. Perkins isn’t particularly quicker or more capable of covering the ground than either of them. He has other strengths (marking, disposal) but right now isn’t best 22.

You’ve pretty much admitting you’re picking him on potential and to get experience. Which is equivalent of saying he’s not best 22 right now based on his own merits.

Which is why I said him pushing Smith out was a source of internal improvement
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Yeh look I think he moves alot better than Dev Smith

I suppose I have an eye to the future in my best side and I think that's important but I'm expecting him to be past both Waters and Dev Smith early next year

And even if he's 1% behind them I'm still picking him over those guys with the upside being clear and the speed/agility he offers in front of the footy which is unique to our front 6
 
Our List for 2022 so far

Key Defenders
1. James Stewart
2. Jayden Laverde
3. Zach Reid
4. Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
5. Michael Hurley
6. Cody Brand

Defenders
1. Jordan Ridley
2. Mason Redman
3. Dyson Heppell
4. Nick Hind
5. Jake Kelly
6. Tom Cutler
7. Alistair Lord


Midfielders
1. Zach Merrett
2. Darcy Parish
3. Dylan Shiel
4. Andrew McGrath
5. Jye Caldwell
6. Kyle Langford
7. Sam Durham
8. Nik Cox
9. Ben Hobbs
10. Matt Guelfi
11. Brayden Ham
12. Patrick Voss
13. Garrett Mcdonaugh

Forwards
1. Jake Stringer
2. Anthony McDonald-Tipungwutti
3. Will Snelling
4. Devon Smith
5. Archie Perkins
6. Alec Waterman
7. Tom Hird

Key Forwards
1. Peter Wright
2. Harry Jones
3. Aaron Francis
4. Kaine Baldwin
5. Cian McBridge
6. Josh Eyre
 
 
Midget midfield maybe mirite
 
Doing this again (I told you guys I'd wait until after the draft period was over! Ha!)

Defenders:

Key Defenders: James Stewart (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zach Reid, Josh Eyre (fwd), Cody Brand
Medium Defenders: Aaron Francis, Jake Kelly, Tom Cutler (mid), Jordan Ridley, Jayden Laverde, Dyson Heppell
Small Defenders: Nick Hind, Mason Redman, Alastair Lord (fwd)

Midfielders:

Inside Midfielders: Andrew McGrath (def), Darcy Parish (fwd), Jye Caldwell (fwd), Ben Hobbs, Dylan Shiel, Patrick Voss (def)
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (fwd), Zach Merrett, Nik Cox (fwd/def), Brayden Ham (fwd), Matt Guelfi (def), Sam Durham (def), Garrett McDonagh (def)
Rucks: Sam Draper, Nick Bryan (fwd), Andrew Phillips

Forwards:

Key Forwards: Michael Hurley (def), Peter Wright (ruc), Harrison Jones, Kaine Baldwin, Cian McBride (def)
Medium Forwards: Archie Perkins (mid), Jake Stringer (mid), Alec Waterman (mid)
Small Forwards: Devon Smith (mid), Will Snelling (mid), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Tom Hird (def)

I'm hoping the SSP spots are used on an inside midfielder and a small forward personally. Someone like Luke Nankervis who's a forward flanker wouldn't be too bad either.
 
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