Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[Val Keating]

Mate, that's not why people, including media, are turning on him. It's because he willingly shares misinformation and often has extremely problematic guests on his show who some argue shouldn't be given a platform.

Also -- and this isn't a criticism of you, I'm just using your post as an inspiration to post something that's been on my mind a lot lately -- the media isn't some monolithic organisation that conspire to control the narrative and direct the zeitgeist. I mean, sure, there is an almost monopolistic organisations that syndicates and often dominates the debate, but the media ecosystem is full of a diverse range of opinions and positions and viewpoints etc.

And tbh most legacy media are still far and away the most reliable source for news, information, stories etc because journalism and all its component parts -- writing journalistic copy, assessing sources, interviewing, etc -- are highly specialised skills and so often missing in the people who like to self-describe as 'independent journalists.' In fact, i'd be interested to see what SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay has to say on this kind of thing as someone who used to work as a journo himself.

Like maybe it's just my biases but I'm far more likely to trust the ABC, The Guardian, and so on so much more than i would anyone who describes themselves as an independent journalist.

Have you listened to his show? That’s his whole shtick. Just getting on people that he finds interesting to have a long conversation about what they do and why they do it. He doesn’t spread anything. The media is 100% turning on him because of the size of his show. It was obvious when they lied about him taking horse dewormer and completely ignored all the other things he did. He literally took CNN’s go to medical expert to task on this recently and verbally kicked the shit out of him about it.

Anyway he’s just a comedian and a martial arts expert who’s been doing this for years. Nothings changed except for his numbers being bigger. Don’t know why anyone would take anything he says seriously tbh. He just talks shit with people.

 

[Val Keating]

getting enough clicks for spotify to give him $100m for exclusivity on the platform.

Think it was even more.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Have you listened to his show? That’s his whole shtick. Just getting on people that he finds interesting to have a long conversation about what they do and why they do it. He doesn’t spread anything. The media is 100% turning on him because of the size of his show. It was obvious when they lied about him taking horse dewormer and completely ignored all the other things he did. He literally took CNN’s go to medical expert to task on this recently and verbally kicked the sh*t out of him about it.

Anyway he’s just a comedian and a martial arts expert who’s been doing this for years. Nothings changed except for his numbers being bigger. Don’t know why anyone would take anything he says seriously tbh. He just talks sh*t with people.

Yeah, many find him interesting. He has freeform convos. He's no expert on anything, and I don't think he claims to be. The issue is that so many point to him as a legit source.

And I think AnEmptyChair hits on a really good point. Many of the same people who express distrust of the MSM (with good cause) will turn to the worst, horrendously dumb sources for their info. It may have been this thread where the glorious Cairns News was used by this exact type of cooked thinker.

The standards of news orgs like the ABC are so much better than orgs like Newscorp, which in turn are so much better than the million Cairns News' out there which so many people rely on.

It's not say the ABC get everything right. But give me them over some shrieking youtuber or Cairns News any day.

 

[Val Keating]

Yeah, many find him interesting. He has freeform convos. He's no expert on anything, and I don't think he claims to be. The issue is that so many point to him as a legit source.

And I think AnEmptyChair hits on a really good point. Many of the same people who express distrust of the MSM (with good cause) will turn to the worst, horrendously dumb sources for their info. It may have been this thread where the glorious Cairns News was used by this exact type of cooked thinker.

The standards of news orgs like the ABC are so much better than orgs like Newscorp, which in turn are so much better than the million Cairns News' out there which so many people rely on.

It's not say the ABC get everything right. But give me them over some shrieking youtuber or Cairns News any day.

It’s just a fun listen and interesting listen. Nothing more. The fact he isn’t beholden to anyone is what makes it so good. He’s just having conversations with interesting people. The only thing he’s an expert on is MMA and comedy.

 

[Samsquanch]

Blundstone shipped production to China but their boot prices never came down. I wear mongrell boots now as they are still made locally.

I was mighty pissed off with the last pair of Blunnies I bought. I only noticed the made in China a few months after I bought them. And you are right - I was OK with the price when I thought they were Australian made. FFS. Never buying them again.

 

[Del191229]

Mate, that's not why people, including media, are turning on him. It's because he willingly shares misinformation and often has extremely problematic guests on his show who some argue shouldn't be given a platform.

Also -- and this isn't a criticism of you, I'm just using your post as an inspiration to post something that's been on my mind a lot lately -- the media isn't some monolithic organisation that conspire to control the narrative and direct the zeitgeist. I mean, sure, there is an almost monopolistic organisations that syndicates and often dominates the debate, but the media ecosystem is full of a diverse range of opinions and positions and viewpoints etc.

And tbh most legacy media are still far and away the most reliable source for news, information, stories etc because journalism and all its component parts -- writing journalistic copy, assessing sources, interviewing, etc -- are highly specialised skills and so often missing in the people who like to self-describe as 'independent journalists.' In fact, i'd be interested to see what SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay has to say on this kind of thing as someone who used to work as a journo himself.

Like maybe it's just my biases but I'm far more likely to trust the ABC, The Guardian, and so on so much more than i would anyone who describes themselves as an independent journalist.

Does Rogan really call himself a journo?

Lots of independent journos use all the skills you mention. Lots don't. Lots at the ABC do, some don't.

I think Leigh Sales has done lots of editorialising the last year and let her own clear personal biases come to the fore.

She shouldn't be doing that./ It is 730, not The Leigh Sales Show.

I don't listen to Rogan, but if I did I wouldn't be enraged if he's not using straight journalist tools and methods.

He's not pretending to - its The Joe Rogan Show.

Crikey started as independent journalism for example, there's a huge role for it.

But simply having a phone and pointing at things doesn't make you a journo.

The Rukshan ****wit is not a journalist, let alone Avi Yemeni.

 

[ferball]

Mate, that's not why people, including media, are turning on him. It's because he willingly shares misinformation and often has extremely problematic guests on his show who some argue shouldn't be given a platform.

Also -- and this isn't a criticism of you, I'm just using your post as an inspiration to post something that's been on my mind a lot lately -- the media isn't some monolithic organisation that conspire to control the narrative and direct the zeitgeist. I mean, sure, there is an almost monopolistic organisations that syndicates and often dominates the debate, but the media ecosystem is full of a diverse range of opinions and positions and viewpoints etc.

And tbh most legacy media are still far and away the most reliable source for news, information, stories etc because journalism and all its component parts -- writing journalistic copy, assessing sources, interviewing, etc -- are highly specialised skills and so often missing in the people who like to self-describe as 'independent journalists.' In fact, i'd be interested to see what SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay has to say on this kind of thing as someone who used to work as a journo himself.

Like maybe it's just my biases but I'm far more likely to trust the ABC, The Guardian, and so on so much more than i would anyone who describes themselves as an independent journalist.

It was the Guardian that released Wikileaks war logs without redacting them properly then dropped Assange in the shit over it.

I haven't really trusted them since.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Have you listened to his show? That’s his whole shtick. Just getting on people that he finds interesting to have a long conversation about what they do and why they do it. He doesn’t spread anything. The media is 100% turning on him because of the size of his show. It was obvious when they lied about him taking horse dewormer and completely ignored all the other things he did. He literally took CNN’s go to medical expert to task on this recently and verbally kicked the sh*t out of him about it.

Anyway he’s just a comedian and a martial arts expert who’s been doing this for years. Nothings changed except for his numbers being bigger. Don’t know why anyone would take anything he says seriously tbh. He just talks sh*t with people.

But the point is that people do take him seriously, so he has a responsibility as a public figure with that in mind. He may not describe himself as a journalist but there are people who take his stuff very seriously and use him and his guests, who he often gives free rein, as an unimpeachable source of information. There's a certain section within the community where he's highly influential and that gives him a responsibility to be careful about what he says. It's not enough to pass it off as 'he just says shit' imo.

And tbh I've listened to a few of his discussions with people like Shaun Carroll, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and a couple of other snippets of non-political or COVID stuff and didn't mind it. I think he's in his element there when he's coaxing information out of people on esoteric topics. But when it's political he can't just allow stuff to go unchecked or give a platform to anyone without challenging them, and that's why people are critical of him. Not because he's popular.

Does Rogan really call himself a journo?

Lots of independent journos use all the skills you mention. Lots don't. Lots at the ABC do, some don't.

I think Leigh Sales has done lots of editorialising the last year and let her own clear personal biases come to the fore.

She shouldn't be doing that./ It is 730, not The Leigh Sales Show.

I don't listen to Rogan, but if I did I wouldn't be enraged if he's not using straight journalist tools and methods.

He's not pretending to - its The Joe Rogan Show.

Crikey started as independent journalism for example, there's a huge role for it.

But simply having a phone and pointing at things doesn't make you a journo.

The Rukshan ******* is not a journalist, let alone Avi Yemeni.

Yeah, those are some interesting points. ON reflection, I was absolutely letting my biases inform the people I thought of in my definition of independent journalists. I was more thinking of the Rukshan types. And agreed that while I still personally trust sources like the ABC and some other legacy media a lot, they're certainly not immune to ****ing up themselves and deserve criticism when they do.

 

[see see]

Did you go to the doctors? Must have been pretty worried as well yeah?

No, I was young, bullet proof and stupid. I showed it to the bloke behind the desk at the hotel we were staying at and he said it would be fine. Obviously, the opinion of some random Mexican hotel clerk is authoritative on such matters.

I then went out and had a few cervezas and half a bottle of mezcal and all was good.

Worse than a jumping Jack? Those buggers really pack a punch for a relatively small ant.

Fortunately not. I've heard they're very very nasty.

 

[Ligma]

warning next slide is a jumpscare, I thought it was a being out of a horror movie but I think it’s just his normal face.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

warning next slide is a jumpscare, I thought it was a being out of a horror movie but I think it’s just his normal face.

not a dilf?

 

[koshari]

No, I was young, bullet proof and stupid. I showed it to the bloke behind the desk at the hotel we were staying at and he said it would be fine. Obviously, the opinion of some random Mexican hotel clerk is authoritative on such matters.

I then went out and had a few cervezas and half a bottle of mezcal and all was good.

Fortunately not. I've heard they're very very nasty.

I had heard they were bad until about 3 years ago, since then have had the misfortune to have 3 occasions that let me know first hand that they are very painful. have developed a new respect for gloves when moving branches. one of the buggers actually got me through a t shirt into my chest.

 

[ferball]

No, I was young, bullet proof and stupid. I showed it to the bloke behind the desk at the hotel we were staying at and he said it would be fine. Obviously, the opinion of some random Mexican hotel clerk is authoritative on such matters.

I then went out and had a few cervezas and half a bottle of mezcal and all was good.

According to one website 1000 people die every year from Mexican scorpion bites.

Jack Jumpers are also sposed to have killed more people than any other ant. Less than 10 but they can cause anaphylactic shock which is what kills people, especially if left untreated. Dunno how true that is and I don't think it includes people who get drunk, pass out and get eaten by swarming army ants.

 

[koshari]

According to one website 1000 people die every year from Mexican scorpion bites.

Jack Jumpers are also sposed to have killed more people than any other ant. Less than 10 but they can cause anaphylactic shock which is what kills people, especially if left untreated. Dunno how true that is and I don't think it includes people who get drunk, pass out and get eaten by swarming army ants.

you would think bullants were a lot worse given how much bigger they are but its the jumping jacks to steer clear of if you can.

 

[koshari]

I brought a whole bunch of Blundstones when they stopped making the ones I liked years ago. Had to track them down at various disposals shops around Victoria. I'm on the last 2 pairs now tho one pair is pretty much done.

I wasn't sure what I was gonna get next so I might try them. Taipans are made in Australia too. They are great, I've been wearing Taipan fire fighting boots for decades. They are issued by the RFS tho - they're about three or four hundred bucks each. And they're very heavy but Taipan make other standard boots too.

you wear elastic sided or laceups?

 

[Val Keating]

But the point is that people do take him seriously, so he has a responsibility as a public figure with that in mind. He may not describe himself as a journalist but there are people who take his stuff very seriously and use him and his guests, who he often gives free rein, as an unimpeachable source of information. There's a certain section within the community where he's highly influential and that gives him a responsibility to be careful about what he says. It's not enough to pass it off as 'he just says sh*t' imo.

And tbh I've listened to a few of his discussions with people like Shaun Carroll, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and a couple of other snippets of non-political or COVID stuff and didn't mind it. I think he's in his element there when he's coaxing information out of people on esoteric topics. But when it's political he can't just allow stuff to go unchecked or give a platform to anyone without challenging them, and that's why people are critical of him. Not because he's popular.


Yeah, those are some interesting points. ON reflection, I was absolutely letting my biases inform the people I thought of in my definition of independent journalists. I was more thinking of the Rukshan types. And agreed that while I still personally trust sources like the ABC and some other legacy media a lot, they're certainly not immune to ******* up themselves and deserve criticism when they do.

He doesn’t have any responsibility at all. He’s just himself and people like that. Holding him responsible is like trying to hold musicians and film makers to the same standard as journalists. He literally just has conversations with people. If he doesn’t agree with someone on something he’ll challenge them. If you listed to the show you’d know that.

When he became big enough to generate click bait he went of his way so often to tell people not to take him seriously that it became tiresome.

 

[ferball]

you would think bullants were a lot worse given how much bigger they are but its the jumping jacks to steer clear of if you can.

I was surprised when I heard that a few years ago but thinking back, when I was growing up in Hobart we had family friends with one daughter who was known to have severe anaplyactic reactions to them. And their house was basically on a giant nest. They were everywhere.

There are some big nasty ants in Australia. Some around here that the farmers supposedly used to use to suture injured cows and the local blackfellas definitely used as stitching for wounds back in the old days. Most of those bullants are from the family Myrmecia.

There is another jumping ant around here, we don't get jack jumpers (m. pilosula). Its called the "jumping ant" (m. nigrocinta) strangely enough and its a bastard too, the second most dangerous venom behind the jack jumper. I've seen them jump about 150mm, mostly they go 80-100mm but this one time we attacked a nest with mattocks and shovels and they got pretty narky about it.

My missus catches the queens when she can and breeds them. A starter colony (one queen that has bred at least two workers) is worth about 250 bucks! People are weird hey.

 

[ferball]

you wear elastic sided or laceups?

Elastic sided ones. I got lazy years ago.

The fire boots are lace ups but you can get this thing you run the laces thru that is basically two strips of leather with a zip up the middle so you just zip them up instead of lacing them. I don't use it anymore tho, it doesn't feel right.

 

[koshari]

i used to wear elastic sided but my ankles are stuffed and i was forever rolling them so its high cut laceups all the way now, the mongrels have a zipper up the side but it fails after a while and you have to use the laces anyway.

 

[Samsquanch]

Elastic sided ones. I got lazy years ago.

The fire boots are lace ups but you can get this thing you run the laces thru that is basically two strips of leather with a zip up the middle so you just zip them up instead of lacing them. I don't use it anymore tho, it doesn't feel right.

Leather, lace-ups, zips...

You aren't talking about Tender Touch are you?

 

[Hojuman]

Is it me, or does every Adele song sound like the last one ?

 

[ferball]

Is it me, or does every Adele song sound like the last one ?

I only know one.

 

[Samsquanch]

I only know one.

How do you know it's the same one?

 

[AnEmptyChair]

He doesn’t have any responsibility at all. He’s just himself and people like that. Holding him responsible is like trying to hold musicians and film makers to the same standard as journalists. He literally just has conversations with people. If he doesn’t agree with someone on something he’ll challenge them. If you listed to the show you’d know that.

When he became big enough to generate click bait he went of his way so often to tell people not to take him seriously that it became tiresome.

See, I don't agree with this at all. I think anyone who has a public platform, especially one where they act in a capacity that informs people and influences decisions, has a responsibility to not actively spread misinformation or encourage behaviour that might be threatening or dangerous to the listeners or the community. Arguing that he just says shit just isn't enough. If you don't want that responsibility then there's plenty of other things you can do.

I also think you hit on something that's maybe a developing area in terms of the ethical responsibility of people like who Joe Rogan and similar people who have massive platforms in podcasts or whatever. WHen they interview people, they are taking on some ethical responsibility to not let dangerous shit go unchallenged or to platform people who spread ideas that are dangerous to the community to individuals.

To take it to the absolute extreme example (and I recognise this is a logical fallacy but I think it's somewhat useful in this context) it categorically would not be acceptable for Rogan to have on people who advocate for nonconsensual sexual relationships with minors, it wouldn't be acceptable to platform Islamic jihadists, it wouldn't be acceptable to platform neonazis. He has a responsibility to not spread those dangerous ideas.

 

[travelli]

Is it me, or does every Adele song sound like the last one ?

I haven't followed her career at all, but her last song is an all time cracker. Just voice and piano but still sounds fresh.