Competitions Collingwood All Time Draft

[Obese Arachnid]

Respectfully ask that you don't engage. Loki & Kappa have made their points.

Time to continue on what has been a very enjoyable thread for many people.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Has been a great thread. I won’t comment on their post again. In fact have deleted my posts.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

To be fair, structurally I did place a bit of importance behind athletic prowess when comparing teams. I was absolutely hesitant to select a 175cm key back, which was the norm of the early days of the competition, to combat centre half forwards of the current day because to me that selection would be completely unrealistic in a like for like comparison. Some credit does need to be applied to the athletic beasts that contend in the AFL today and how they would hold up against the relevant competition of yesteryear.

It in part explains my bias towards modern players from my drafting. I would take a Nathan Brown

22

Nathan Brown

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

or Shane Wakelin

Shane Wakelin

Age

49

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

type as being better at their role - that being to be a player assigned to line up on centre half and full forwards of the ilk of those drafted in this competition rather than some other more lauded options from earlier periods. Is it unfair to hold those players to today’s athletic and evolutionary standards? Maybe, but that’s a component of comparing players diverse across literally 130 odd years

 

[Jelly Bean]

Let's get the poll started half_back_flank

And then should Michael start his reviews from Monday?

 

[Trickster]

To be fair, structurally I did place a bit of importance behind athletic prowess when comparing teams. I was absolutely hesitant to select a 175cm key back, which was the norm of the early days of the competition, to combat centre half forwards of the current day because to me that selection would be completely unrealistic in a like for like comparison. Some credit does need to be applied to the athletic beasts that contend in the AFL today and how they would hold up against the relevant competition of yesteryear.

It in part explains my bias towards modern players from my drafting. I would take a Nathan Brown or Shane Wakelin type as being better at their role - that being to be a player assigned to line up on centre half and full forwards of the ilk of those drafted in this competition rather than some other more lauded options from earlier periods. Is it unfair to hold those players to today’s athletic and evolutionary standards? Maybe, but that’s a component of comparing players diverse across literally 130 odd years

It's interesting the different view points. From my end, I've probably rated players from yesteryear higher as you hear about their feats but less so about weaknesses. Whereas players I've seen I am possibly judging slightly harsher as I'm aware of their strengths but also of their weaknesses too.

To your point, I also think that if you put them into today's era the gifted players will adjust but perhaps those who are smaller may not play in the same positions.

I guess that's what makes this exercise so good because each person has different selection thoughts and criteria.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I think though HBF was pretty clear up front - each player is judged in the context of their peer group / era. Syd Coventry would get killed in the ruck against today's Grundy/NicNat/Gawn, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't regard him as one of our most dominant ruckman. Jack Regan would get monstered by today's gun key power forwards, but should be still regarded as our best full back of all time.

There is no point arguing each player compared to today's players, only each player's dominance in their own context compared to other players dominance in theirs.

This year's team that finished second bottom would probably completely dominate the Machine team. But that's not the point of this exercise.

 

[loki04]

Pre 50s. The Machine team.

1950 to 90s: Best 22.
B.Rose, L.Richards, Weideman, Healy, Merrett, Twomey jnr.
Tuddenham, McKenna, Thompson, Price, W.Richardson, Greening.
P.Moore, T.Shaw, P.Daicos, Picken, Milane, Brown, Wright, Crosisca, Kelly, Monkhorst,

2000 onwards team.

FB. H.Shaw B.Reid J.Clement
HB. J.Howe D.Moore H.Lumumba
C. A.Treloar N.Buckley D.Thomas
HF. C.Tarrant T.Cloke A.Didak
FF. L.Davis A.Rocca J.Elliott
R. Grundy Pendlebury Swan

INT. Burns Beams Degoey Fraser

EMG. Adams Maynard Holland Toovey Jolly Ball Maxwell Wellingham Brown Roughead.

 

[ppoiter]

It's interesting the different view points. From my end, I've probably rated players from yesteryear higher as you hear about their feats but less so about weaknesses. Whereas players I've seen I am possibly judging slightly harsher as I'm aware of their strengths but also of their weaknesses too.

To your point, I also think that if you put them into today's era the gifted players will adjust but perhaps those who are smaller may not play in the same positions.

I guess that's what makes this exercise so good because each person has different selection thoughts and criteria.

I had wondered about this too. Jarryd Blair might be a good example. Premiership player, over 150 games, featured heavily in a couple of strong years for us and was by all accounts very well respected around the club. If the only available information were a Collingwood Forever page, he may well have been selected.

 

[magpies42]

I feel like this should be 2 drafts VFL era and AFL era.

Even then how can anyone be realistic and say if all were alive today that X player from 1902 would even get a game for your local a grade side let alone be placed above a freak like Nathan Buckley.

It’s all relative, you can only compare people against their contemporaries.

 

[35Daicos]

It’s all relative, you can only compare people against their contemporaries.

Yep, that's all people need to do. It's not that hard to grasp the concept. In general, the people who've posted a fair bit in this thread, and in particular those who took part in the 'draft' have done that very well. For example, I have no problem seeing Albert Collier as the greatest CHB our club has ever had, and if there wasn't the (anti-Collingwood) bias we all know was there he'd have been named in that position in the AFL's Team of the Century (or on a back flank or on the bench at least!! Jesus!). Of course he wouldn't have a hope against modern day champs like Wayne Carey, if he somehow was able to come back and play against them (given the size disparity), but that's not the point! John Nicholls made the AFL's TotC as the 2nd ruck (he was about 6' 2"), but would probably struggle against Max Lynch, let alone Max Gawn, if he was to play these days! Once again, that's just not the point!!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Just has a read over everyone’s teams again and they are incredible. You would happily go into battle with any of those best 18s with you.

 

[Trickster]

Been a bit of radio silence so making sure we don't drop off Page 1!

Where are we at. Is the BF poll going ahead? Does anyone else need to put together their team and rationale or do we start that if everyone is fine?

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Been a bit of radio silence so making sure we don't drop off Page 1!

Where are we at. Is the BF poll going ahead? Does anyone else need to put together their team and rationale or do we start that if everyone is fine?

An interesting side note could be PMing someone our top 10 (excluding our own side and find out who we have ranked where). That could be in addition to the board vote.

 

[half_back_flank]

Sorry, been a little busy.

Have created the poll, hope you don't mind but Trickster , i ripped most of your fantastic work off.

Feel free to chuck anymore info about your teams, i can even chuck a link in the OP.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Pies 4 Life FC

B: Tom Langdon - Harry Saunders - Jack Murphy
HB: Max Richardson - Paddy Rowan - Syd Coventry (c)
C: Des Healey - Wayne Richardson - Mick McGuane
HF: Tarkyn Lockyer - Anthony Rocca - Brodie Holland
F: Percy Rowe - Dick Lee - Terry Waters
R: Arthur Leach - Taylor Adams - Shane O’Bree

This is how I ended up finishing off. Heading into the draft as I previously mentioned, my focus was around building a team that had different strengths and could hypothetically fit without being too much of one type. I also tried to balance the difference between our far past, and more recent players, to avoid recency bias, which is always tricky.

For me the key was good ball users and for 90% of the players likely to have the ball in their hands regularly, they could do just that. The use of my centreline - Healey, the Richardson and McGuane - along with Lockyer in particular, were all great ball users and I feel that the run coming out of defence and going forward would just do that. Whilst I can't say I saw too many of the older players, I did back what Michael said via Collingwood Forever to try and find players who were skilful players, and preferably good mark. Contested players - or those who were competitive - were also high on my agenda.

Once I'd built the skilful outside players, I needed those who would get their hands dirty, which is why I brought in Adams and O'Bree. Their clean hands and disposal in close (not accounting kicking) is what would release those more skilful players to be able to drive the ball forward and hit the required targets. Having these players is just as crucial as the skilful ones as it allows the skilful ones to do their best work.

From a ruck perspective, once I missed out on the top few rucks, I realised there was not a great deal between the next 5-6 so I figured I could try and pick up a good value ruck late, which I did with Arthur Leach, and Percy Rowe - who really became a predominant ruck but had the versatility to play other roles, could rotate with him.

In defence, Syd Coventry is clearly one of our best players of all time and a fantastic leader, which is why he would be captain of the side. The likes of Rowan and Saunders would take the big boy forwards and they were both able to mark and compete well, whilst Langdon could do a dual role of offence/defence. Murphy would be that smaller lockdown defender who could still provide run, whilst Richardson would be the rebounder using his terrific skill to exit the back 50.

Up forward, Dick Lee is the centrepiece at full-forward, with Rowe protecting him as he did Gordon Coventry in the 1928 Grand Final. Terry Waters provides a slightly different forward target, whilst Pebbles is that crash-and-bash key forward, perfect for the centre half-forward role. The half-forward positions were ones I left until last, and even then, had pegged Lockyer for a back pocket, but felt Langdon was better than any half-forwards left. I feel that role when only picking 18 players, is probably the last to do, because midfielders can roll through there. Had we been picking a bench, I may well have picked one more specialist forward, but both Lockyer and Holland spent significant time there and were permanent forwards in different seasons.

Overall I feel my team would be a really great "team". Is it the best in this thread? Not sure, there's just so many awesome sides. I just wanted one that I could have fun with and really picture playing alongside each other. I love skilful running players, and that's what I went for, and got a fair few of.

Hopefully others like this team, as I'm happy with how it eventuated, and if it doesn't win that's okay, I think everyone is deserving of victory, so kudos to everyone.

This was my detailed explanation half_back_flank (post #1287)

 

[half_back_flank]

This was my detailed explanation half_back_flank (post #1287)

Sorry mate, has been updated.

That centreline of yours is absolute class by the way, imagining Adams and O’Bree at the coalface farming it out to that McGuane, Richardson and Healey combination who are hitting up Dick Lee at full forward? Fantastic.

Poll thread seems to be a little bit of a fizzer, but doesn’t dampen how much I enjoyed this draft, thanks to everyone who participated and made it what it was.

 

[gouki88]

Writing a big in-depth piece on my team has gotten away from me over the last week or two - real life getting in the way of this!

I still might at some stage, just for fun. Even with the voting open

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Sorry mate, has been updated.

That centreline of yours is absolute class by the way, imagining Adams and O’Bree at the coalface farming it out to that McGuane, Richardson and Healey combination who are hitting up Dick Lee at full forward? Fantastic.

Poll thread seems to be a little bit of a fizzer, but doesn’t dampen how much I enjoyed this draft, thanks to everyone who participated and made it what it was.

I’m actually surprised at the way the votes are going. I agree the top ones like South of the Yarra are among the best of the best. It’s more I’m surprised that I thought teams with more recent players might get more votes. I’m glad that our posters are considering the past players equally which is great. I was worried SotY was not going to get many because his side has so many older gems but I’m glad the board isn’t as “young” for lack of a better word.

 

[Jelly Bean]

All - stay tuned into this thread over the next week or so, as from tomorrow Michael Lardieslads will be releasing his initial reviews / observations on the selected teams, before announcing a 'premier' and 'runner up'. Michael will release his reviews based on the draft order, and will post them every couple of days, but do feel free to engage in discussion with Michael and eachother through the period.

Thanks again Michael - we massively appreciate your contribution to this activity, and indulging a bunch of very passionate Collingwood supporters!

 

[magpies42]

Writing a big in-depth piece on my team has gotten away from me over the last week or two - real life getting in the way of this!

I still might at some stage, just for fun. Even with the voting open

Yes I’m in the same boat, but I figure good teams don’t need marketing spin

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Please be gentle Lardieslads

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Please be gentle Lardieslads

“Hey mate, not relevant to today’s training session, but what are your thoughts on Tarkyn_24 overlooking you for a younger model in our BigFooty fantasy draft?”

 

[magpies42]

“Hey mate, not relevant to today’s training session, but what are your thoughts on Tarkyn_24 overlooking you for a younger model in our BigFooty fantasy draft?”

View attachment 1280800

I reckon he could provide some handy insights draft night!

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I reckon he could provide some handy insights draft night!

Unfortunately I’m busy that night.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I reckon he could provide some handy insights draft night!

Oh wait