Retired 14. Liam Jones

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Donnini said:
If there was no mandate he would be readying for pre season training, yes?
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Probably. I'm not sure that supports your stance anywhere near as much as you may have thought though.

We live in a society and in society there are laws. It is a law that all drivers and passengers must wear a seatbelt - does that mean you're forced to wear a seat belt every time you travel in your vehicle?

No. You can freely choose not to wear the seatbelt. Nobody puts a gun to your head every time you get into your car. You just have to deal with the consequences of not wearing it if and when they arise.

Just as you are not forced to wear the seatbelt, so too was Jones not forced into retirement. The AFL is entitled to introduce whatever policy they like and staff and players are free to either abide by them or not.

But if they don't, there are consequences. It's as simple as that - any other rubbish you choose to put forward is just another attempt to downplay the pandemic.
 
blue healer said:
So you think the retirement of Jones is going to cost us a finals berth?

I think we might be preparing next seasons excuses a little early.
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Unfortunately, I agree with old mate.

We are not good enough to cover Jones IMO - it's not like we were a good side this year either. I'm hopeful we can improve and play finals but I'm not really optimistic about it anymore. Huge loss.
 
gbatman said:
I reckon once the season starts up again and footy gets going again, knowing he could be out there playing is really going to hit home for Jones, particularly if Carlton are winning games. Reckon he will miss it more than he realises.
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Liam will definitely regret his intentional & unusual exit to an AFL career a stance few would have taken, that was his choice. The dangerous pandemic will gradually subside during 2022 by mid to end year and so will it’s significance.
 

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Kings of Lygon said:
Unfortunately, I agree with old mate.

We are not good enough to cover Jones IMO - it's not like we were a good side this year either. I'm hopeful we can improve and play finals but I'm not really optimistic about it anymore. Huge loss.
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Definitely losing Liam will impact our team performance negatively for at least for the 1st half, probably season.
A mature tall, defending confidentially, well synchronized, aggressive &determined is a loss.
Team will recalibrate & adjust just takes time & patience, in a season or 2 , will be fine.
 
Kings of Lygon said:
Unfortunately, I agree with old mate.

We are not good enough to cover Jones IMO - it's not like we were a good side this year either. I'm hopeful we can improve and play finals but I'm not really optimistic about it anymore. Huge loss.
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Hard to replace a staple in the back 6, especially one of two key pillars that worked well together.

Also hoping that this doesn’t push Kemp further into the defender or even KPD thinking.
 
bmaurizio said:
Definitely losing Liam will impact our team performance negatively for at least for the 1st half, probably season.
A mature tall, defending confidentially, well synchronized, aggressive &determined is a loss.
Team will recalibrate & adjust just takes time & patience, in a season or 2 , will be fine.
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The focus will more on team defence next season, our defence structures has been a major weakness the last two seasons.

Having Jones has not prevented major defensive issues, so l don't believe his loss will be as significant as some are thinking.
lf anything it brings forward the planning for a longer term replacement.
 
Monkey King said:
The "do as we say or else" choice.

That's only a "choice" to the ones making the demand.
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It’s still a choice for the participant impacted by the rules. He is going to find the same choices in broader society but he has the choice to not participate there too. No one is holding a gun to his head. You make this sound like some paramilitary intervention.
 
athensblue said:
So now we are better off without Liam

Fox and the grapes
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Not better off, any top 12 player that exits suddenly is difficult to cover, but definately not the 'we are stuffed, goodbye finals' predicament some are suggesting.
If greater depth in the midfield (Cerra and Hewitt) and a more defensive,
accountable game plan can cut the 110 odd 'one on one' contests Liam participated in to around 80 odd, then that ahould help cover his loss somewhat.
 
athensblue said:
So now we are better off without Liam

Fox and the grapes
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May be useful to read the comments, indicating that our defence was hardly a strength the last two years and there will be more focus on overall team defence going forward rather than individuals, which is what the well drilled teams do well.
 
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I find your lack of faith disturbing! We have Weiterbot, Saad, Williams, Plowman, Docherty as 5 above average defenders. Throw in a fit OMac, Parkes, Young, Marchbank of which are pretty much 4 players to help slot in that in total played what about 7-8 games in total for us last year (Parkes, OMac). OMac displayed great marking capability, has defence exposure through most of his career, young enough to take that opportunity. Young is a key defender in the making as is Parkes.

Throw in improvements in our midfield defence with Hewett and Cerra is also not what I'd call a one way player. We can have Williams, Saad, Docherty, rotate through the midfield. We can perhaps have McGov, JSOS swing back if need be, oh and then there is the supplementary opening we now have where mentioned we'll be looking at having a few train with us to cover for Jones. We'll land on our feet, and perhaps could be beneficial as Voss might have to attach a bit more a defensive mindset than planned.
 
BigBreakfast said:
It’s still a choice for the participant impacted by the rules. He is going to find the same choices in broader society but he has the choice to not participate there too. No one is holding a gun to his head. You make this sound like some paramilitary intervention.
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I guess the question I have here is: will he always find the same choices in broader society?

Seems to me only a matter of time before those that elect for non vax are permitted to participate in most, if not all, activities other than in areas of health. We can't keep them cut off from society forever. We're already seeing the Feds start to push this issue and, if I recall correctly, NSW have already indicated they will be able to do many things after Dec 15 that they can't now.
 
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btdg said:
the most important aspect of key defenders is predictability. You defend as a unit, and everyone on the team needs to know exactly where the big boys are and what tehy are going to do. If they can just be in the right spot 99/100 times, everyone else can work off that - they'll know when to punch, when and where to crumb and defend the ground, etc. This is why so many good teams seem to get by with ordinary KP defenders, and what make Richmond so good with Grimes/Astbury/Vlastuin (all just rock solid in positioning).
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System always beats individual flash :thumbsu:
 

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Jones retiring might make us a little worse next season, but we'll be better off in the long run. He was one of the oldest on the list so we'd need to replace him soon anyway, and better to do it next year than in 3-4 years time when we might be contending and a disruption would be more costly.
 
mickelboy182 said:
If a player last season refused to live in the hub would you expect compensation? Obviously not.
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A player (Stocker) did refuse to live in the hub, and was supported through it. In this case, Jones was working through his issues behind closed doors (without being named) Maclure outed him, he retired with his back up.

False equivalence.
 
Gethelred said:
A player (Stocker) did refuse to live in the hub, and was supported through it. In this case, Jones was working through his issues behind closed doors (without being named) Maclure outed him, he retired with his back up.

False equivalence.
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Jones also could have been put on the inactive list but chose not to.

Maclure outing him was a formality, it had got out before that and everyone knew.

It's not a 1:1 scenario, but nothing could be. Calling it a false equivalence is a bit much.
 
mickelboy182 said:
Jones also could have been put on the inactive list but chose not to.

Maclure outing him was a formality, it had got out before that and everyone knew.
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Nope.

Rumours are completely different to a factual reporting. A confirmation of this - from Liam's perspective, not yours - is tantamount to a betrayal of trust.
It's not a 1:1 scenario, but nothing could be. Calling it a false equivalence is a bit much.
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... which is a confirmation that it's a false equivalence, you just don't like it.
 
Gethelred said:
Nope.

Rumours are completely different to a factual reporting. A confirmation of this - from Liam's perspective, not yours - is tantamount to a betrayal of trust.

... which is a confirmation that it's a false equivalence, you just don't like it.
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Ok buddy, even though I never claimed they were the same but rather an alternate comparison.
The only one speaking of equivalency is you.
 
Gethelred said:
A player (Stocker) did refuse to live in the hub, and was supported through it. In this case, Jones was working through his issues behind closed doors (without being named) Maclure outed him, he retired with his back up.

False equivalence.
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a better example might have been if a player chose to retire rather than playing out the year in the hub.
 
mickelboy182 said:
Ok buddy, even though I never claimed they were the same but rather an alternate comparison.
The only one speaking of equivalency is you.
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...

For a comparison to be apt, it needs to be directly relevant between both cases. Pointing out that a comparison is not apt by saying 'false equivalence' is saying that your two cases were not apt.

You made a comparison that wasn't apt, and now you're complaining about me pointing that out? It's a bit of a weird flex, but okay.
 
Pedants gonna pedant I guess! I entirely reject the premise that comparisons need to fit a 1:1 mold. Perhaps when taking an entirely narrowed legal view as opposed to one of common sense, but I don't think that's fit for purpose on a discussion board!

You've also agreed with CJMB above who has kindly set stricter parameters for my comparison if that is necessary for you to feel contented. Let's just leave it at that.
 
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FRUMPY said:
Sitting around doing nothing - as in:
1. not going shopping (apart from essential food)
2. Not going to restaurants
3. Not going to pubs
4. Not going to cafes
5. not going to the movies
6. not going to sporting events
7. not going interstate/overseas

I wonder if his uni course is in the medical area 🤣
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Astrophysics, surely.
 
BlueShift said:
Jones retiring might make us a little worse next season, but we'll be better off in the long run. He was one of the oldest on the list so we'd need to replace him soon anyway, and better to do it next year than in 3-4 years time when we might be contending and a disruption would be more costly.
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That's how I see it. We are a weaker side in 2022 because of losing him but it will hopefully quicken the development of a younger tall back and other players need to step up. Let's see who wants to step up

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 
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