Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[dave10]

Sorry disagree entire on Essendon. Their issues have not been resolved and they’re 2021 season was hard to watch . They literally fell into the 8 as other sides stumbled for a variety of reasons . When playing in the finals showed their true abilities. I’m An convinced they’ll be bottom 6 in 2022 . They’re only as good as the herald sun makes them out to be , the disappointment that will be 2022 will only be more painful by the absolute propaganda piece aired on Fox.

But Carlton , it’s worried me for a long time that they’ll come good . Two big reasons they will deliver this year: McKay and Curnow on the park at the same time , and if Fisher gets his sh$t together that’ll spell bad news for me ! I hate Carlton so much but if properly coached , man they will be an excellent team . Big if , but with new coaching regimen, the opportunity for improvement is obvious . Top 6 minimum 2022 IMO , with the sky the limit 2023 onwards.
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What issues haven’t been resolved that you speak of?

Again, repeating myself. They arguably over achieved in 2021 and played finals. They were widely tipped to be bottom 4. They exceeded expectations as a result of many factors. Whether they fell into the eight, or were hard to watch is your subjective view but has no bearing on Essendon’s progress in 2021 relative to its expectations. I doubt they will finish bottom 6 in 2022, however it’s still a very young and inexperienced list and if it encounters significant injuries to its core of experienced players, anything is possible. Injury largely saw Richmond go from 1st to 10th in 2021. Melbourne went from 4th to 17th in 2019. Essendon could go from 8th to 13th in 2022 if things don’t go it’s way. Does that mean all the work rebuilding its culture, improving its coaching set up, player development, strengthening its list profile etc was for nothing? No. If it stays on cause and doesn’t get distracted, a bottom 6 finish in 2022 will be a set back on its journey but that’s it.

I agree the media pumped them up. Read my post again. A stronger club doesn’t deviate, and it will be interesting to see how they manage that scenario. Compared to prior years, it has a much stronger head of football (Mahoney), much stronger coaching group with a skill set that aligns with the clubs list demographic and development and a stronger higher purpose and sense of meaning.

 

[Opine]

Seems a fair comment. A way to go but still a lot to get excited about (well not me obviously)
I think you’d find he was talking more about off field than on anyway.
His job is to get the off to help the on work and I don’t see him as the micro-manager type

I think you’re spot on.
Over the last three years, I've liked my club less and felt lesser connected to it than I have in the whole of my time supporting it. It seemed to have lost something at its core; wins/losses had nothing to do with it. Thank goodness Cook is here.

 

[BronCrow]

Rich considering this was the first season Sydney did anything since they were South Melbourne without any assistance and even then there’s academies

Were there academies back in 2005?


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[Sky]

Were there academies back in 2005?


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No 2005 that was called cost of living allowance. I was sticking up for Carlton so let’s talk about Carlton instead

 

[Jables]

Hawks with the O'Meara and Wingard examples a great example of this for those Hawks types out of touch with how sometimes you just got to start again.

A 27 and 28 year old that have been here for years? Okay.

 

[BruceTempany14]

What issues haven’t been resolved that you speak of?

Again, repeating myself. They arguably over achieved in 2021 and played finals. They were widely tipped to be bottom 4. They exceeded expectations as a result of many factors. Whether they fell into the eight, or were hard to watch is your subjective view but has no bearing on Essendon’s progress in 2021 relative to its expectations. I doubt they will finish bottom 6 in 2022, however it’s still a very young and inexperienced list and if it encounters significant injuries to its core of experienced players, anything is possible. Injury largely saw Richmond go from 1st to 10th in 2021. Melbourne went from 4th to 17th in 2019. Essendon could go from 8th to 13th in 2022 if things don’t go it’s way. Does that mean all the work rebuilding its culture, improving its coaching set up, player development, strengthening its list profile etc was for nothing? No. If it stays on cause and doesn’t get distracted, a bottom 6 finish in 2022 will be a set back on its journey but that’s it.

I agree the media pumped them up. Read my post again. A stronger club doesn’t deviate, and it will be interesting to see how they manage that scenario. Compared to prior years, it has a much stronger head of football (Mahoney), much stronger coaching group with a skill set that aligns with the clubs list demographic and development and a stronger higher purpose and sense of meaning.

Disagree as much as you want . I thought I covered the unresolved issues by saying they we’re unwatchable. Other issues that are unresolved is the mountainous amount of money paid to Shiel and Smith , and poor Tippa ( love him ! ) there is something not right there . And the over reliance on Stringer up forward . Two meter Peter is no answer . Further relying on a sub standard backline also Remains an issue . But the biggest issue that remains unresolved will be your coterie groups . Truck will cop it like poor old Knights did when the ledger gets wonky . This was highlighted early in 2021 season when you were all crying for blood ! It’s there , under the surface . Stereotypes for a reason !

They probably would’ve been closer to bottom 4 if other sides didn’t have such a horrific run with injuries . But you make your own luck . But as far as I see it , quite possibly the worst side to make finals that I cAn remember. Compared to Carlton , I think Essendon is poised for another long period in the wilderness.

Carlton will be the BIG improver in 2022. It kills me to say ! Essendon Geelong and Eagles brace for a long winter !

Enjoy the season , just don’t buy into the hype . It’ll ultimately kill you !!!!!

Have a safe Christmas etc .


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[dave10]

Disagree as much as you want . I thought I covered the unresolved issues by saying they we’re unwatchable. Other issues that are unresolved is the mountainous amount of money paid to Shiel and Smith , and poor Tippa ( love him ! ) there is something not right there . And the over reliance on Stringer up forward . Two meter Peter is no answer . Further relying on a sub standard backline also Remains an issue . But the biggest issue that remains unresolved will be your coterie groups . Truck will cop it like poor old Knights did when the ledger gets wonky . This was highlighted early in 2021 season when you were all crying for blood ! It’s there , under the surface . Stereotypes for a reason !

They probably would’ve been closer to bottom 4 if other sides didn’t have such a horrific run with injuries . But you make your own luck . But as far as I see it , quite possibly the worst side to make finals that I cAn remember. Compared to Carlton , I think Essendon is poised for another long period in the wilderness.

Carlton will be the BIG improver in 2022. It kills me to say ! Essendon Geelong and Eagles brace for a long winter !

Enjoy the season , just don’t buy into the hype . It’ll ultimately kill you !!!!!

Have a safe Christmas etc .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We agree to disagree on much of your post. PS: at least you said merry Christmas. It’s almost taboo to mention Christmas these days

 

[juss]

Brian Cook has recently admitted Carlton's rebuild still has "a fair way to go" in his words.

Cook claims Carlton's rebuild is not yet complete

The Blues' CEO has told the club's fans that there is still work to be done at Princes Park.

www.zerohanger.com

Many people are optimistic about Carlton's on field prospects in 2022, sharing a belief that the Blues have built a solid list, which was underperforming under David Teague, and that Michael Voss has what it takes to get the best out of Carlton's list, by instilling hard edge and mongrel into the players which was lacking under David Teague.

However, Brian Cook's comments indicate he's not one who shares the belief that the list is ready and a case of underperforming under the previous coach, instead acknowledging there's still a lot of work to do before Carlton's rebuild is complete. Voss may get the best out of the list and instill mongrel, but Cook knows that Carlton's list still needs a lot of work.

Cook is up there with Peter Jackson and Brendon Gale when it comes to the best CEO's in the AFL, with Cook's previous track record at both West Coast and Geelong giving every reason for fans to be optimistic about Cook being the man to turn Carlton around, in the same manner in which Jackson turned Melbourne around, and in which Gale turned Richmond around.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not Cook is the man to lead Carlton out of the wilderness, and whether or not we'll see another historically successful powerhouse club return from the wilderness, given we've recently witnessed other historically successful powerhouse clubs in Richmond and Melbourne both return from the wilderness.

Do people believe Cook is the man to lead Carlton out of the wilderness, and given Carlton and Essendon are the two historically successful powerhouse clubs still in the wilderness, are Carlton more or less likely to see a return to on field success before Essendon do?

I dont think Carlton are going anywhere promising any time soon. I think their recruiting philosophy of being very trade heavy and often overpaying in trade assets and salary for the wrong type of player isn't getting them anywhere. It's just a sugar hit for the members thinking they are getting a good player but it's not taking them to finals.

They've got about 4 or 5 players that could be/are top class but then the rest of the list isn't good enough to support them taking the next step.

They'll be stuck as a mediocre-solid side for a few years yet IMO.

 

[evo]

Carlton finally have the right mindset to be a successful club again.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Carlton still have the "divine right" mentality.
They'll never get anywhere whilst that's in place

 

[Opine]

Cook hesitant to emphasise ‘F’ word as Blues hit reset under new order

Brian Cook is taking all his experience as a football manager to Carlton in the final stages of his career, in an attempt to help the club become winners again.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Dazb86]

I dont think Carlton are going anywhere promising any time soon. I think their recruiting philosophy of being very trade heavy and often overpaying in trade assets and salary for the wrong type of player isn't getting them anywhere. It's just a sugar hit for the members thinking they are getting a good player but it's not taking them to finals.

They've got about 4 or 5 players that could be/are top class but then the rest of the list isn't good enough to support them taking the next step.

They'll be stuck as a mediocre-solid side for a few years yet IMO.

Really need a few A.A types taken with later picks.

 

[JayJ20]

What issues haven’t been resolved that you speak of?

Again, repeating myself. They arguably over achieved in 2021 and played finals. They were widely tipped to be bottom 4. They exceeded expectations as a result of many factors. Whether they fell into the eight, or were hard to watch is your subjective view but has no bearing on Essendon’s progress in 2021 relative to its expectations. I doubt they will finish bottom 6 in 2022, however it’s still a very young and inexperienced list and if it encounters significant injuries to its core of experienced players, anything is possible. Injury largely saw Richmond go from 1st to 10th in 2021. Melbourne went from 4th to 17th in 2019. Essendon could go from 8th to 13th in 2022 if things don’t go it’s way. Does that mean all the work rebuilding its culture, improving its coaching set up, player development, strengthening its list profile etc was for nothing? No. If it stays on cause and doesn’t get distracted, a bottom 6 finish in 2022 will be a set back on its journey but that’s it.

I agree the media pumped them up. Read my post again. A stronger club doesn’t deviate, and it will be interesting to see how they manage that scenario. Compared to prior years, it has a much stronger head of football (Mahoney), much stronger coaching group with a skill set that aligns with the clubs list demographic and development and a stronger higher purpose and sense of meaning.

Whether we've changed or not depends entirely on what we do at the draft. If we select players like Erasmus, Goater, Knevitt, Johnson and other tall, inside/balanced mids, then I'll believe we've changed. If we select outside mids, KPPs or "project" players that may or may not become mids, then we're exactly the same as we've always been.

The biggest issue we've faced for the last 16 years is not paying respect to midfield depth, midfield balance and winning contested ball (it was midfield spread under Hird). We collect a bunch of good individual players and think about list balance as an afterthought.

I was already close to marking this off-season as a failure given that Dunstan and even Hewett were there for the taking without needing to trade. I'll look past it if we draft any of those players I mentioned above.

We've publicly said that we're relying on internal development to improve on winning contested ball, but we need to assess which players are capable of providing that. When you really look at it, we're putting everything on an injury prone player like Caldwell and second year players like Perkins, Cox and Durham (who aren't ready to be relied upon). Basically, our midfield strategy is hoping that none of our mids are injured, which is quite risky.

When I look at Carlton's list strategy however, they're clearly addressing exactly what was wrong with their side. I always found it hilarious that Carlton were rated as a finals chance in 2021 because of their shallow midfield depth. It was essentially Walsh and a broken Cripps. They went ahead and recruited a classy player in Cerra and a tough, two-way running mid in Hewett to complement their midfield. That along with a Coleman medalist and decent KPD options tells me that they're actually considering list balance and building a good side.

When I compare Carlton and Essendon, I believe we are the more talented side, but Carlton are the more balanced side. Melbourne and Richmond have proven that balance beats talent and GWS have proven that talent alone won't get you there. Hopefully we understand that when we go to the draft on Wednesday/Thursday.

 

[JayJ20]

I dont think Carlton are going anywhere promising any time soon. I think their recruiting philosophy of being very trade heavy and often overpaying in trade assets and salary for the wrong type of player isn't getting them anywhere. It's just a sugar hit for the members thinking they are getting a good player but it's not taking them to finals.

They've got about 4 or 5 players that could be/are top class but then the rest of the list isn't good enough to support them taking the next step.

They'll be stuck as a mediocre-solid side for a few years yet IMO.

I disagree. Going trade heavy is bad when you look at names rather than how they fit your side. Recruiting Saad and Williams last year was exactly that. They only really needed Saad.

This year however, all the players they brought in make sense and address big weaknesses. Cerra, Hewett and Young all complement their list. It gives them a good platform to build on, especially if players like Kemp, Setterfield, Stocker and Dow realise their potential.

The only problem I see with their list is their forwardline, which relies too much on McKay. Let's see what they do with that.

 

[juss]

I disagree. Going trade heavy is bad when you look at names rather than how they fit your side. Recruiting Saad and Williams last year was exactly that. They only really needed Saad.

This year however, all the players they brought in make sense and address big weaknesses. Cerra, Hewett and Young all complement their list. It gives them a good platform to build on, especially if players like Kemp, Setterfield, Stocker and Dow realise their potential.

The only problem I see with their list is their forwardline, which relies too much on McKay. Let's see what they do with that.

The price they pay for the wrong type of assets is partly what holds them back, but also the amount of mediocre/recycled players is a problem too. It costs them generally more in salary/trade assets than it would through homegrown talent, and the cheaper players have known ceilings and limitations is often the case (that's why they are easily gettable).

Pick 8 a year ago for an outside attacking flanker that turns 27 in 2022 that has never been AA or B&F is an astonishingly bad trade to make. That's not a key chess piece at all, it's a flashy fringe cream on the top player. Then they follow that up with a non-genuine midfielder (Williams) on big money in the hope he can play midfield, that's not astute recruiting either. Not to mention the countless Kennedy, Fogarty, McGovern, Jones, Betts, Plowman, Martin, Marchbank, Newman, Pittonet, Newnes, McDonald, Setterfield types. That's an incredible number of recycled players on an AFL list. Is it the most in the AFL?

I'm pretty sure if you do the numbers ~33% of their list is recruited from a previous AFL club. There's a number of reasons why that isn't optimal list management.

That is mediocre list management at it's finest, and is why if they don't change things they will stay as a mediocre side. Maybe they can make a final, if everything went perfectly. They aren't contending for a flag though anytime soon.

 

[JayJ20]

The price they pay for the wrong type of assets is partly what holds them back, but also the amount of mediocre/recycled players is a problem too. It costs them generally more in salary/trade assets than it would through homegrown talent, and the cheaper players have known ceilings and limitations is often the case (that's why they are easily gettable).

Pick 8 a year ago for an outside attacking flanker that turns 27 in 2022 that has never been AA or B&F is an astonishingly bad trade to make. That's not a key chess piece at all, it's a flashy fringe cream on the top player. Then they follow that up with a non-genuine midfielder (Williams) on big money in the hope he can play midfield, that's not astute recruiting either. Not to mention the countless Kennedy, Fogarty, McGovern, Jones, Betts, Plowman, Martin, Marchbank, Newman, Pittonet, Newnes, McDonald, Setterfield types. That's an incredible number of recycled players on an AFL list. Is it the most in the AFL?

I'm pretty sure if you do the numbers ~33% of their list is recruited from a previous AFL club. There's a number of reasons why that isn't optimal list management.

That is mediocre list management at it's finest, and is why if they don't change things they will stay as a mediocre side. Maybe they can make a final, if everything went perfectly. They aren't contending for a flag though anytime soon.

I don't have that much of an issue with spending pick 8 on Saad tbh. I think there are worse things they've done.
I'm more speaking about their list management in the last 2-3 years. Everyone knows they weren't great before that. Other than Williams, I think they've done a decent job.

Richmond built a dynasty on the back of a handful of A-graders and supporting players that complement their list well. Carlton certainly have the A-grade talent to make it happen. They just need to continue building on players that provide decent support to those A-graders. I think players like Young, Saad and Hewett are perfect players to provide that support. Sure their list management is a little more short-term than it ideally should be, but I don't think it's going to hinder their chances of contending within the next 3-5 years.

 

[owen87]

Disagree as much as you want . I thought I covered the unresolved issues by saying they we’re unwatchable. Other issues that are unresolved is the mountainous amount of money paid to Shiel and Smith , and poor Tippa ( love him ! ) there is something not right there . And the over reliance on Stringer up forward . Two meter Peter is no answer . Further relying on a sub standard backline also Remains an issue . But the biggest issue that remains unresolved will be your coterie groups . Truck will cop it like poor old Knights did when the ledger gets wonky . This was highlighted early in 2021 season when you were all crying for blood ! It’s there , under the surface . Stereotypes for a reason !

They probably would’ve been closer to bottom 4 if other sides didn’t have such a horrific run with injuries . But you make your own luck . But as far as I see it , quite possibly the worst side to make finals that I cAn remember. Compared to Carlton , I think Essendon is poised for another long period in the wilderness.

Carlton will be the BIG improver in 2022. It kills me to say ! Essendon Geelong and Eagles brace for a long winter !

Enjoy the season , just don’t buy into the hype . It’ll ultimately kill you !!!!!

Have a safe Christmas etc .


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I'm not sure you actually watched Essendon in 2021 tbh.

• Most commentators regarded them as one of the more watchable sides.
• We were mid-table for Points Against, so not a sub-standard backline.
• We were top-4 for Points For, with Stringer our best, but we were less reliant on Stringer than Richmond were on Reiwoldt.
• Neither Shiel nor Smith are being paid a 'mountainous' amount of money, and we're in some of the least salary cap pressure of the entire league.
• Tippungwuti was clearly a combination of injury impacted and lockdown impacted. Which you'd know if you knew anything about him.
• Peter Wright was one of the better Ruck / Forwards in the AFL, it's just not a role players are particularly exceptional in generally.

We started off the season shaky, stabilised throughout the year despite injuries to senior players, and finished with a healthy percentage. For a side that was heavily tipped to be bottom-4 or in the running for the spoon we managed to not do that, play consistently enough to make finals, and despite the score-line, didn't even have the biggest loss in the finals series. All with a list that was younger and less experienced than their opposition most weeks.

What a strange, strange post.

 

[Red Bull]

The only problem I see with their list is their forwardline, which relies too much on McKay. Let's see what they do with that.

 

[juss]

I don't have that much of an issue with spending pick 8 on Saad tbh. I think there are worse things they've done.
I'm more speaking about their list management in the last 2-3 years. Everyone knows they weren't great before that. Other than Williams, I think they've done a decent job.

Richmond built a dynasty on the back of a handful of A-graders and supporting players that complement their list well. Carlton certainly have the A-grade talent to make it happen. They just need to continue building on players that provide decent support to those A-graders. I think players like Young, Saad and Hewett are perfect players to provide that support. Sure their list management is a little more short-term than it ideally should be, but I don't think it's going to hinder their chances of contending within the next 3-5 years.

To come back to my point on optimal list management though, if we assume Carlton have approx. 35% of their list as players from other clubs, Richmond currently have ~15%. And the types of players they are include the critical pieces for a flag, Ruckman, KPF, midfielders. Our big ticket trades/FA address those key chess pieces, they are not outside flankers or non-genuine mids asked to play midfield.

The numbers on the most recent Premiers the Demons have ~17%, and again they have targeted key chess pieces in their best 2 KPDs were big ticket trades/FA, and even the Bulldogs as recent Grand Finalists and 2016 Premiers have ~20%. My guess would be premiership teams haven't used Carlton's approach.

I maintain Saad for 8 is a terrible selection of type of player for that premium pick.

 

[Robertio]

The price they pay for the wrong type of assets is partly what holds them back, but also the amount of mediocre/recycled players is a problem too. It costs them generally more in salary/trade assets than it would through homegrown talent, and the cheaper players have known ceilings and limitations is often the case (that's why they are easily gettable).

Pick 8 a year ago for an outside attacking flanker that turns 27 in 2022 that has never been AA or B&F is an astonishingly bad trade to make. That's not a key chess piece at all, it's a flashy fringe cream on the top player. Then they follow that up with a non-genuine midfielder (Williams) on big money in the hope he can play midfield, that's not astute recruiting either. Not to mention the countless Kennedy, Fogarty, McGovern, Jones, Betts, Plowman, Martin, Marchbank, Newman, Pittonet, Newnes, McDonald, Setterfield types. That's an incredible number of recycled players on an AFL list. Is it the most in the AFL?

I'm pretty sure if you do the numbers ~33% of their list is recruited from a previous AFL club. There's a number of reasons why that isn't optimal list management.

That is mediocre list management at it's finest, and is why if they don't change things they will stay as a mediocre side. Maybe they can make a final, if everything went perfectly. They aren't contending for a flag though anytime soon.

It wasn't pick 8 alone for Williams mate, if Corey Durdin comes on it will be a good trade.

 

[BruceTempany14]

I'm not sure you actually watched Essendon in 2021 tbh.

• Most commentators regarded them as one of the more watchable sides.
• We were mid-table for Points Against, so not a sub-standard backline.
• We were top-4 for Points For, with Stringer our best, but we were less reliant on Stringer than Richmond were on Reiwoldt.
• Neither Shiel nor Smith are being paid a 'mountainous' amount of money, and we're in some of the least salary cap pressure of the entire league.
• Tippungwuti was clearly a combination of injury impacted and lockdown impacted. Which you'd know if you knew anything about him.
• Peter Wright was one of the better Ruck / Forwards in the AFL, it's just not a role players are particularly exceptional in generally.

We started off the season shaky, stabilised throughout the year despite injuries to senior players, and finished with a healthy percentage. For a side that was heavily tipped to be bottom-4 or in the running for the spoon we managed to not do that, play consistently enough to make finals, and despite the score-line, didn't even have the biggest loss in the finals series. All with a list that was younger and less experienced than their opposition most weeks.

What a strange, strange post.

Watched as much of them as I could . As I said unwatchable. Bottom 6 looming IMO. And thanks for rehash of Essendons season . Beautifully spun , ignoring the early season toxicity that has been swept under the rug . Unlike an Essendon person to be in denial.

But your response is very defensive . I was Just comparing where Carlton and Essendon are at right now .I know it’s hard to hear but Carlton are the better bet for future success . Just saying Essendon are not as good as the herald sun and SEN make them out to be . Sorry if it’s strange , or you do not agree .

What a delusional , delusional post.




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[BronCrow]

No 2005 that was called cost of living allowance. I was sticking up for Carlton so let’s talk about Carlton instead

You bought the academies in to this thread, not me. I merely responded to it. Yes let’s stick to Carlton though. Cook is right, they are further away from finals and not as far through the rebuild as people think.


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[JayJ20]

To come back to my point on optimal list management though, if we assume Carlton have approx. 35% of their list as players from other clubs, Richmond currently have ~15%. And the types of players they are include the critical pieces for a flag, Ruckman, KPF, midfielders. Our big ticket trades/FA address those key chess pieces, they are not outside flankers or non-genuine mids asked to play midfield.

The numbers on the most recent Premiers the Demons have ~17%, and again they have targeted key chess pieces in their best 2 KPDs were big ticket trades/FA, and even the Bulldogs as recent Grand Finalists and 2016 Premiers have ~20%. My guess would be premiership teams haven't used Carlton's approach.

I maintain Saad for 8 is a terrible selection of type of player for that premium pick.

I don't think that statistic is all that relevant. What's more relevant is the quality of those players. Admittedly, most of the GWS rejects are ordinary, but they can turnover their list quickly through smart recruitment and developing existing young talent over the next 3 years. I'm not saying their current list is good enough to win a premiership. What I'm saying is that they have enough A-grade talent to build a premiership list over the next 3 years. Walsh, McKay, Weitering, Cerra, Cripps, Saad etc. That's enough players capable of putting together AA standard years over the next 3 years. It's up to the coaches and recruiters to build on that.

I agree with you that they have a lot of work to do, but what I don't agree with is writing them off completely when they have that many possible A-graders.

View attachment 1285000
View attachment 1285004

I considered him, but honestly, we don't know if he'll return to his best or whether he can stay uninjured. You can't put all of your hopes on an injury-prone player.

 

[juss]

I don't think that statistic is all that relevant. What's more relevant is the quality of those players. Admittedly, most of the GWS rejects are ordinary, but they can turnover their list quickly through smart recruitment and developing existing young talent over the next 3 years. I'm not saying their current list is good enough to win a premiership. What I'm saying is that they have enough A-grade talent to build a premiership list over the next 3 years. Walsh, McKay, Weitering, Cerra, Cripps, Saad etc. That's enough players capable of putting together AA standard years over the next 3 years. It's up to the coaches and recruiters to build on that.

I agree with you that they have a lot of work to do, but what I don't agree with is writing them off completely when they have that many possible A-graders.

I considered him, but honestly, we don't know if he'll return to his best or whether he can stay uninjured. You can't put all of your hopes on an injury-prone player.

Of course I'm not writing them off for eternity, I just think they have a few years at least (call it 3?) where their ceiling is competitive in the H&A and can make bottom half of the 8, but I don't see contention for a flag with their current approach,

As we've seen with many teams, big difference between making finals and even winning a final and being GF team genuinely contending for a flag.

 

[dave10]

We agree to disagree on much of your post.

Watched as much of them as I could . As I said unwatchable. Bottom 6 looming IMO. And thanks for rehash of Essendons season . Beautifully spun , ignoring the early season toxicity that has been swept under the rug . Unlike an Essendon person to be in denial.

But your response is very defensive . I was Just comparing where Carlton and Essendon are at right now .I know it’s hard to hear but Carlton are the better bet for future success . Just saying Essendon are not as good as the herald sun and SEN make them out to be . Sorry if it’s strange , or you do not agree .

What a delusional , delusional post.




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’Beautifully spun’ - No it wasn’t really. Stats don’t lie. They were regarded as more watchable than most clubs by the wider football community in 2021.

‘early season toxicity swept under the rug’ - What toxicity? What has been hidden under the rug? Examples?

Why was the response defensive? A level headed and well articulated summary of the key stats that defined its season.

Carlton may well have more success, that’s not hard to hear I can assure you. It has a good list. If they’ve found the right coaches and implement the cultural and value led planks Cook intends to galvanise the club around I believe they will succeed as well.. That doesn’t hurt most Essendon people. Essendon may prove to be more successful than Carlton. Which club can stay on course for longer and make good decisions from here??

A word of feedback for you and those that take to heart what SEN and the HS say about Essendon. They are in the business of selling advertising via ratings and sales. Essendon are arguably the biggest football club in Australia. Of course they will latch onto any evidence of a revival of an AFL power club. They will do the same for Carlton in 2022. Don’t fall for it!

Essendon has accepted major changes were required at the end of 2020. It’s culture was poor. It’s standards were not high enough and stakeholders were not held to account. The footy dept was disconnected and also disconnected from the administration. It brought in Mahoney, a noted strategic thinker with skills in building relationships and connecting an entire club.. It brought in more skilful coaches based on the list and demographic profile of its list. It has possibly the best coaching group in the AFL. Available evidence so far indicates its on the right track. And that’s not just the results on the scoreboard. I accept an outsider who isn’t privy to what goes on inside the club isn’t able to see and hear the progress from within..

Brian Cook places great emphasis on establishing strong values and implementing a high performance culture. Get the whole club onto the freeway he says, noting the challenge is to keep everyone moving along the freeway and not going off on tangents (exiting the freeway). Ie: everyone buys into values and then lives them everyday by what they say and do. That's culture.

Essendon has reset its values and culture (blue collar team creating its own identity by living these values everyday), aligned the entire club successfully onto this freeway and are driving nicely along it. The President talks about it. The football manager references it. The coaches and players play like it. Can it ensure nobody veers off the freeway? That’s the question I and many others will hold Essendon accountable to. If it stays on the freeway it will succeed because the core list and talent is in place, a strong coaching lineup has been recruited and it needs to only plug a few key holes over the next two years to ensure it has the talent, experience and cohesion over the ground to win finals.

Carlton isn’t that dissimilar in many respects.