Coach James Hird - is it time to give him a second chance at coaching an AFL club? Gil says yes!

[RichLeMonde]

People who would be more dignified choices to coach an AFL team than James Hird:
- the East German track and field coach
- the Chinese swimming team coach
- the US Postal cycling team coach
- Ronnie Coleman
- Ben Johnson
- Marion Jones
- the Ultimate Warrior

 

[Arctic fox]

Melatonin is a hell of a drug

Sure is. On special at chemist warehouse now.
I think you mean Melanotan.

 

[Percel]

Sure is. On special at chemist warehouse now.
I think you mean Melanotan.

How good am I going

 

[wigglyworm]

I reckon let him back in once the yearly checkups for the Essendon players stop.

 

[armpit]

A debunked theory pushed by the tin foil hat brigade.

 

[lumpinee]

Half the clubs in the AFL were doing similar sh*t. Ya’ll aren’t ready for that conversation yet though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

proof?

 

[owen87]

got away mostly without any real consequences

I mean, he got suspended from the industry, then he got fired, hounded by the media for years, and attempted suicide.

I'm not sure what more consequences you want?

Prison? Death?

 

[owen87]

proof?

You're very naive if you don't believe other clubs were doing similar.

The people that were doing it at Essendon had previously been at Geelong and Gold Coast, then moved to Melbourne.

This wasn't some James Hird driven masterplan to do things that weren't occurring at all anywhere else in the comp, if you believe that, there's a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You're very naive if you don't believe other clubs were doing similar.

The people that were doing it at Essendon had previously been at Geelong and Gold Coast, then moved to Melbourne.

This wasn't some James Hird driven masterplan to do things that weren't occurring at all anywhere else in the comp, if you believe that, there's a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you.

Similar to this?

In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review.

 

[owen87]

Similar to this?

In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review.

Yes. Similar to that.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yes. Similar to that.

So then, you could provide proof then, because I don't believe any other club was using players as guinea pigs.

 

[owen87]

I don't believe

You're very naive if you don't believe other clubs were doing similar.

If you've missed the events of global sport over the last 2 - 3 decades, there's not much I can do to help you be less naive.

At the bare minimum, there's this;

Text messages reveal Dank involved with Demons - ABC News

 

[LoungeLizard]

If you've missed the events of global sport over the last 2 - 3 decades, there's not much I can do to help you be less naive.

At the bare minimum, there's this;

Text messages reveal Dank involved with Demons - ABC News

This is not proof, this is you trying to justify what Essendon did, no other AFL club was treating their players as guinea pigs.

Grab us some real proof if you are so sure, it should be there if it was getting done by all clubs.

 

[citizen-erased]

do we bump this every year, or two years?

i think most are forgetting that despite the drugs, he wasn't the most credentialed coaching appointment.
We put a 2 time premiership coach alongside him, a senior assistant who effectively set the Dogs premiership in 2016 up & another who is the reigning premiership coach.

Add to the pile of legend player, not so much on the coaching front.

 

[owen87]

This is not proof, this is you trying to justify what Essendon did, no other AFL club was treating their players as guinea pigs.

Grab us some real proof if you are so sure, it should be there if it was getting done by all clubs.

Who was trying to justify anything?

You've gone off on some bizarre rant that is completely at odds with everything we've seen unfold in professional sport over the last 3 decades.

You'd be incredibly naive to think Essendon were the only club doing dodgy stuff, they were just the only ones who did it badly enough to get caught.

 

[Islanda22]

Could he actually coach?

Add to the fact he is a lying cheat i'd say no chance any FC would take him on

 

[LoungeLizard]

Who was trying to justify anything?

You've gone off on some bizarre rant that is completely at odds with everything we've seen unfold in professional sport over the last 3 decades.

You'd be incredibly naive to think Essendon were the only club doing dodgy stuff, they were just the only ones who did it badly enough to get caught.

Again, if other clubs were treating their players as guinea pigs, show us the proof.

They may be into supplements, they may even be cheating, but there is no proof they are doing anything even close to what Essendon did.
So give us some proof, it should be there if it's so widespread like you think.

 

[owen87]

Again, if other clubs were treating their players as guinea pigs, show us the proof.

They may be into supplements, they may even be cheating, but there is no proof they are doing anything even close to what Essendon did.
So give us some proof, it should be there if it's so widespread like you think.

Why would there be proof? There's exactly zero reason for the AFL to investigate it. They had no choice in the Essendon scenario because Essendon had done such a poor job of doing it that it was well beyond the stage of the AFL to sweep it under the rug, and the AFL definitely tried to sweep it under the rug.

In this case, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Everything that's unfolded in the last 3 decades, in every major sporting code on the planet, and you believe that Essendon was the only one pushing the envelope too far?

Methinks you're incredibly naive. But hey, it's nice that you're getting to try to grandstand about a topic you appear to know nothing about.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Why would there be proof? There's exactly zero reason for the AFL to investigate it. They had no choice in the Essendon scenario because Essendon had done such a poor job of doing it that it was well beyond the stage of the AFL to sweep it under the rug, and the AFL definitely tried to sweep it under the rug.

In this case, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Everything that's unfolded in the last 3 decades, in every major sporting code on the planet, and you believe that Essendon was the only one pushing the envelope too far?

Methinks you're incredibly naive. But hey, it's nice that you're getting to try to grandstand about a topic you appear to know nothing about.

Are you trying to grandstand and tell us you know all about this stuff are you?
I couldn't give a rats what you think I am, you said other clubs were doing similar to Essendon, I am calling that absolute bullshite.

So if you know all about this stuff, you should be able to tell us which clubs were conducting club wide doping programs with experimental drugs on nearly the whole team list.
If not, then you are just a fraud.

 

[owen87]

Are you trying to grandstand and tell us you know all about this stuff are you?
I couldn't give a rats what you think I am, you said other clubs were doing similar to Essendon, I am calling that absolute bullshite.

So if you know all about this stuff, you should be able to tell us which clubs were conducting club wide doping programs with experimental drugs on nearly the whole team list.
If not, then you are just a fraud.

Nope. I'm simply telling you that you're incredibly naive if you think Essendon was the only club doing something like that.

We've seen more than enough across the professional sport landscape over the last 3 decades to know that sports doping is hardly uncommon or isolated to one team in any given sport.

Of course, if you want to live in a fantasy land where big bad James Hird and Essendon are the only ones, and every other club is pure and innocent, by all means. But at the very least you'd have to ignore that Robinson was involved at Geelong, Gold Coast and Essendon, and that Dank was involved at Melbourne after Essendon, an association Melbourne denied until they got busted lying about it by the ABC.

So you believe whatever you like, but I'd suggest reading up a little more about the wider world of sports doping, as it appears you know very little about the topic beyond "Essendon done bad".

 

[LoungeLizard]

Nope. I'm simply telling you that you're incredibly naive if you think Essendon was the only club doing something like that.

We've seen more than enough across the professional sport landscape over the last 3 decades to know that sports doping is hardly uncommon or isolated to one team in any given sport.

Of course, if you want to live in a fantasy land where big bad James Hird and Essendon are the only ones, and every other club is pure and innocent, by all means. But at the very least you'd have to ignore that Robinson was involved at Geelong, Gold Coast and Essendon, and that Dank was involved at Melbourne after Essendon, an association Melbourne denied until they got busted lying about it by the ABC.

So you believe whatever you like, but I'd suggest reading up a little more about the wider world of sports doping, as it appears you know very little about the topic beyond "Essendon done bad".

You don't seem to get it.
I'm not saying other clubs players are not doping, you said "similar" to Essendon.

No other clubs were/are doing what Essendon did, that is treat players like guinea pigs, using experimental drugs.

So stop trying to justify it, they were investigated for a reason, the ACC were investigating drugs in sport for over 12 months, and it seemed Essendon were the only AFL club they were interested in.

 

[owen87]

You don't seem to get it.
I'm not saying other clubs players are not doping, you said "similar" to Essendon.

No other clubs were/are doing what Essendon did, that is treat players like guinea pigs, using experimental drugs.

So stop trying to justify it, they were investigated for a reason, the ACC were investigating drugs in sport for over 12 months, and it seemed Essendon were the only AFL club they were interested in.

Most PEDs are 'experimental drugs' you do realise, right? When they're no longer experimental, is when they're easily tested for and detected.

So yes, I think you're naive to believe Essendon were the only club running a doping programme. They were just the only ones dumb enough to get caught, because they used amateurs like Dank & Robinson instead of a guy like Victor Conte who managed to run a sports doping lab for almost 20 years before getting caught, or Ferrari & Fuentes in the cycling world.

At what point have I tried to justify or excuse anything Essendon did? You've entirely made that up.

As I said:

I'd suggest reading up a little more about the wider world of sports doping, as it appears you know very little about the topic beyond "Essendon done bad"

The emotive language you use when describing the Essendon program is a pretty good indicator of the lack of knowledge you have in the area beyond what was written in the HUN.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Most PEDs are 'experimental drugs' you do realise, right? When they're no longer experimental, is when they're easily tested for and detected.

So yes, I think you're naive to believe Essendon were the only club running a doping programme. They were just the only ones dumb enough to get caught, because they used amateurs like Dank & Robinson instead of a guy like Victor Conte who managed to run a sports doping lab for almost 20 years before getting caught, or Ferrari & Fuentes in the cycling world.

At what point have I tried to justify or excuse anything Essendon did? You've entirely made that up.

As I said:



The emotive language you use when describing the Essendon program is a pretty good indicator of the lack of knowledge you have in the area beyond what was written in the HUN.

Yeah the old, but everyone else was doing it excuse, but you're not trying to justify it.

And i'm not naive, no other club treated their players like guinea pigs.
The ACC were investigating Essendon, not other clubs, Essendon.

You are the naive one, if you think they would not have investigated other clubs also, if other clubs were doing "similar" to Essendon.

You have nothing, all you say is in your head, Essendon treated their players like guinea pigs, they organised a report, and the report showed this is what they did.
Call others whatever you like, that is what happened.

 

[owen87]

Yeah the old, but everyone else was doing it excuse, but you're not trying to justify it.

And i'm not naive, no other club treated their players like guinea pigs.
The ACC were investigating Essendon, not other clubs, Essendon.

You are the naive one, if you think they would not have investigated other clubs also, if other clubs were doing "similar" to Essendon.

You have nothing, all you say is in your head, Essendon treated their players like guinea pigs, they organised a report, and the report showed this is what they did.
Call others whatever you like, that is what happened.

So you've completely made up that I'm trying to justify it, despite never having tried to justify it.

Well done you, gold star.

Continue burying your head in the sand and stay naïve though.

As I said, try reading a little more widely on the topic of sports doping and get yourself informed.

 

[LoungeLizard]

So you've completely made up that I'm trying to justify it, despite never having tried to justify it.

Well done you, gold star.

Continue burying your head in the sand and stay naïve though.

As I said, try reading a little more widely on the topic of sports doping and get yourself informed.

Yep, you have been triggered.

Get informed you say.
This would be you trying to tell us you are informed, yeah?

So tell us all which clubs were doing this team wide experimental doping programs.

Seems to me Collingwood players were getting into their own programs, nothing like Essendon.
Carlton actually investigated what Essendon were doing, so I doubt it was them.

So, informed one, which clubs were doing "similar" to Essendon?