List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[Put a Lids on it]

I agree with whoever said we dont need another ruck/forward take an actual key forward and since this draft is shallow for forwards just take mids imo.

 

[Mr Magic]

I agree with whoever said we dont need another ruck/forward take an actual key forward and since this draft is shallow for forwards just take mids imo.

Agree, unless Bazzo falls in our lap, there are other mids but I suspect the better ones get snapped up and we are left with vanilla types that really struggle to make it at the highest levels.

Unless the club knows some Balta/Bolton X-factor types that are off the radar but then we might be able to use later picks for them anyway

 

[fargothegreat]

So does Hawkins. Depends on what role you see him in

Don't think he fits alongside Lynch. Gibcus however ...

 

[Karp3_dm]

Lambert turns 30 tomorrow maybe they see Shorty or Brown developing into that transition mid/forward role? Anyway I like the selection of Brown the recruiters obviously like his athleticism and ball use

Shorty way too soft for the lambert role

 

[Karp3_dm]

More red flags than a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

More red flags than the QLD premier palachook telling us it’s for our health while holding a 6 pack of Krispy Kreme’s

 

[Mr Magic]

Hard pass for me. Slow and lacks agility.

That is how I see it, in fact I am trying to figure out what others might be seeing in him

 

[RobsJourney]

Firstly, pretty hard to draft the next Cotchin or Dusty when you don’t have pick 2 or 3 in the draft; and the last top 10 selection the club had was 9 years ago.

Second, RCD was picked by the club as a midfielder at around the pick he was supposed to drop. In fact:

2016 - Pick 29 - Shai Bolton; has transitioned to some midfield time.
2017 - pick 17 - Jack Higgins; was thought to ultimately transition to midfield (and still may). Tipped to go higher.
2018 - pick 20 - RCD; an inside midfielder. Tipped to go higher but around pick 20.
2019 - pick 21 - Dow; a midfielder.

So four of the last five first picks we’ve had have been a) quite late [earliest at 17] and b) have or were likely to have the ability to play midfield.

Third, you need talent first and foremost. Regardless of position. The ‘ball winning talent’ at pick 9 was Hobbs and Erasmus. Gibcus is a better prospect than both.

At 17, maybe Goater? I would have taken Matthew Johnson personally but he isn’t a ‘ball winner’, he’s a one-step-off the pack player.

So enlighten me, what would have done differently?

Appreciate the long reply.

I absolutely don't claim to be an expert, definitely not, but forums are for an opinion in the end, and I feel it's pretty simple what I would have done and what we should have done. I'd have addressed our very, very obvious weakness, the midfield.

Like I and many others have said, yes Gibcus looks a really good prospect, perhaps the best available player at the pick we had, but right now we're in a weird situation - we're close to good enough to be the best still (if our best 20 players are fit), but we're also very close to needing a rebuild. Tarrant was recruited to cover for Astbury because we clearly think we can still contend right? So if we still think we can contend, what major weakness do we have that needs covering, to shore up the growing holes? Again, the midfield.

If we think we are still contending (again, shown by the recruitment of Tarrant) then not drafting midfielders at 9 and/or 17 tells me we think our best side is good enough and that the depth of RCD/Ross/Dow will be enough. Our depth showed in 2021 that it was pretty darn far off that... In fact, even when we had our full side in (which was rare) we had started to struggle a bit, whether that be due to any or all of age, the changed rules, the fact we normally start seasons slow on purpose, and maybe a little identity loss (I still maintain Essendon has completely thieved our gameplan and we've lost it).

Our midfield is ageing just as fast as Grimes and Tarrant, so both midfield and defence are as big a need as each other in that respect (as far as what we need to start the rebuild/next phase), so yes, drafting to cover that defence makes sense.

But, again, if we think we can still contend, then the absolute clear weakness to address right at this moment was the midfield, and to fix that we needed to draft the best available at pick 9 which was our highest pick in a long while, the kinda pick where you do end up with a likely gun. Again, not an expert, but best available midfielder at that pick was Ben Hobbs, an inside beast averaging 30 possessions despite coming off an ankle injury. Geez, imagine slotting him into our round 1 team alongside the rest of our blokes? I'd have been frothing at the idea. What about Gibcus and Brown, do either of them get past Grimes, Tarrant, Balta, Broad, Vlastuin, Short, heck even Mansell and Rioli? Almost definitely not, unless we have injuries again. The defence is set for our 2022 tilt already, the midfield is absolutely not.

So if we're looking to the now, we badly needed a gun midfielder. If we're looking to the future both near and far, well, we still need mids as much as defenders. So grabbing Hobbs would have addressed both now and the future in one go, but all we've done is shore up our defence for perhaps 2-4 years from now. Now we get into the 20s where you miss the out and out guns that almost certainly translate to gun AFL midfielders, and choose from guys who are now more speculative, clearly a tier or two down from their higher-rated teammates already drafted, so you start to rely a bit more on luck that one will come good. As I saw on Reddit, Richmond seems to love a "limited" midfielder, and that's what you have a far higher chance of ending up with once you get into the 20s and 30s.

Perhaps it's the game plan, but where are our 30+ midfielders outside occasionally Prestia? Where are our contested beasts outside Graham who, let's be fair, is more of a 15 possie 10 tackle player than a guy who wins 25-30 in contested situations. We just don't have them, and none of the guys you listed have shown anything like being that kind of player. It's clear as day that we need it. And yes I know it's not all about possession numbers, but all the games we lost in 2021 we got blown away in disposals and contested ball, we just didn't win the footy.

Feels like a simple way to fix that would have been a guy like Hobbs, the kind of pure midfielder we never seem to draft. Ah well.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post, didn't intend it go on for that long...

 

[Mr Magic]

So does Hawkins. Depends on what role you see him in

Hawkins is a very good kick and very solid. He gets help from umpires Lockett never had

 

[tiger_tough]

Who said they had it on good authority we were going to take Johnson with our first pick?

 

[AstuteTiger]

Clubs talking pick swaps, why Freo could slide down the draft board

Clubs talking pick swaps, why Freo could slide down the draft board

Plenty of action ahead for the second night of the NAB AFL Draft, writes Cal Twomey

www.afl.com.au

 

[Mr Magic]

Who said they had it on good authority we were going to take Johnson with our first pick?

tigers of old was talking him up. I think he was speculating we where offering red herrings and interested in him


I stated I think I know who we where picking, but not on anyones authority, intuition was the driver. Clearly I was wrong, but I am okay with not being perfect.

I would be disappointed if anyone really knew was releasing that info on BF

 

[AstuteTiger]

A few surprises, like Chesser, Aleer, Sheldrick and Lohmann not expected to go top 20, so a few sliders are likely to make it to our picks.
Johnson, Sonsie, Butler, Goater, MacDonald, Taylor, Howes, Motop, Knevitt, Draper to name a few.

So many mids are still on the table. Feeling quietly confident that we will land 1-2 from the above list.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

Appreciate the long reply.

I absolutely don't claim to be an expert, definitely not, but forums are for an opinion in the end, and I feel it's pretty simple what I would have done and what we should have done. I'd have addressed our very, very obvious weakness, the midfield.

Like I and many others have said, yes Gibcus looks a really good prospect, perhaps the best available player at the pick we had, but right now we're in a weird situation - we're close to good enough to be the best still (if our best 20 players are fit), but we're also very close to needing a rebuild. Tarrant was recruited to cover for Astbury because we clearly think we can still contend right? So if we still think we can contend, what major weakness do we have that needs covering, to shore up the growing holes? Again, the midfield.

If we think we are still contending (again, shown by the recruitment of Tarrant) then not drafting midfielders at 9 and/or 17 tells me we think our best side is good enough and that the depth of RCD/Ross/Dow will be enough. Our depth showed in 2021 that it was pretty darn far off that... In fact, even when we had our full side in (which was rare) we had started to struggle a bit, whether that be due to any or all of age, the changed rules, the fact we normally start seasons slow on purpose, and maybe a little identity loss (I still maintain Essendon has completely thieved our gameplan and we've lost it).

Our midfield is ageing just as fast as Grimes and Tarrant, so both midfield and defence are as big a need as each other in that respect (as far as what we need to start the rebuild/next phase), so yes, drafting to cover that defence makes sense.

But, again, if we think we can still contend, then the absolute clear weakness to address right at this moment was the midfield, and to fix that we needed to draft the best available at pick 9 which was our highest pick in a long while, the kinda pick where you do end up with a likely gun. Again, not an expert, but best available midfielder at that pick was Ben Hobbs, an inside beast averaging 30 possessions despite coming off an ankle injury. Geez, imagine slotting him into our round 1 team alongside the rest of our blokes? I'd have been frothing at the idea. What about Gibcus and Brown, do either of them get past Grimes, Tarrant, Balta, Broad, Vlastuin, Short, heck even Mansell and Rioli? Almost definitely not, unless we have injuries again. The defence is set for our 2022 tilt already, the midfield is absolutely not.

So if we're looking to the now, we badly needed a gun midfielder. If we're looking to the future both near and far, well, we still need mids as much as defenders. So grabbing Hobbs would have addressed both now and the future in one go, but all we've done is shore up our defence for perhaps 2-4 years from now. Now we get into the 20s where you miss the out and out guns that almost certainly translate to gun AFL midfielders, and choose from guys who are now more speculative, clearly a tier or two down from their higher-rated teammates already drafted, so you start to rely a bit more on luck that one will come good. As I saw on Reddit, Richmond seems to love a "limited" midfielder, and that's what you have a far higher chance of ending up with once you get into the 20s and 30s.

Perhaps it's the game plan, but where are our 30+ midfielders outside occasionally Prestia? Where are our contested beasts outside Graham who, let's be fair, is more of a 15 possie 10 tackle player than a guy who wins 25-30 in contested situations. We just don't have them, and none of the guys you listed have shown anything like being that kind of player. It's clear as day that we need it. And yes I know it's not all about possession numbers, but all the games we lost in 2021 we got blown away in disposals and contested ball, we just didn't win the footy.

Feels like a simple way to fix that would have been a guy like Hobbs, the kind of pure midfielder we never seem to draft. Ah well.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post, didn't intend it go on for that long...

whilst i do agree a mid early would of been nice, we have some promising young mids on our list already. We don't have have a gun young developing key defender to pair with Balta for the next 10 years (jury is out on miller and biggy). You have to remember that covid interrupted VFL seasons the last 2 years would of hurt guys like ross/dow/rcd. A full preseason now will hopefully have them improving massively and ready to explode in 2022

 

[beema limapep]

No to Knevitt. Does not damage with his possessions and is not a great inside/clearance option compared to others.

 

[energyquant]

Appreciate the long reply.

I absolutely don't claim to be an expert, definitely not, but forums are for an opinion in the end, and I feel it's pretty simple what I would have done and what we should have done. I'd have addressed our very, very obvious weakness, the midfield.

Like I and many others have said, yes Gibcus looks a really good prospect, perhaps the best available player at the pick we had, but right now we're in a weird situation - we're close to good enough to be the best still (if our best 20 players are fit), but we're also very close to needing a rebuild. Tarrant was recruited to cover for Astbury because we clearly think we can still contend right? So if we still think we can contend, what major weakness do we have that needs covering, to shore up the growing holes? Again, the midfield.

If we think we are still contending (again, shown by the recruitment of Tarrant) then not drafting midfielders at 9 and/or 17 tells me we think our best side is good enough and that the depth of RCD/Ross/Dow will be enough. Our depth showed in 2021 that it was pretty darn far off that... In fact, even when we had our full side in (which was rare) we had started to struggle a bit, whether that be due to any or all of age, the changed rules, the fact we normally start seasons slow on purpose, and maybe a little identity loss (I still maintain Essendon has completely thieved our gameplan and we've lost it).

Our midfield is ageing just as fast as Grimes and Tarrant, so both midfield and defence are as big a need as each other in that respect (as far as what we need to start the rebuild/next phase), so yes, drafting to cover that defence makes sense.

But, again, if we think we can still contend, then the absolute clear weakness to address right at this moment was the midfield, and to fix that we needed to draft the best available at pick 9 which was our highest pick in a long while, the kinda pick where you do end up with a likely gun. Again, not an expert, but best available midfielder at that pick was Ben Hobbs, an inside beast averaging 30 possessions despite coming off an ankle injury. Geez, imagine slotting him into our round 1 team alongside the rest of our blokes? I'd have been frothing at the idea. What about Gibcus and Brown, do either of them get past Grimes, Tarrant, Balta, Broad, Vlastuin, Short, heck even Mansell and Rioli? Almost definitely not, unless we have injuries again. The defence is set for our 2022 tilt already, the midfield is absolutely not.

So if we're looking to the now, we badly needed a gun midfielder. If we're looking to the future both near and far, well, we still need mids as much as defenders. So grabbing Hobbs would have addressed both now and the future in one go, but all we've done is shore up our defence for perhaps 2-4 years from now. Now we get into the 20s where you miss the out and out guns that almost certainly translate to gun AFL midfielders, and choose from guys who are now more speculative, clearly a tier or two down from their higher-rated teammates already drafted, so you start to rely a bit more on luck that one will come good. As I saw on Reddit, Richmond seems to love a "limited" midfielder, and that's what you have a far higher chance of ending up with once you get into the 20s and 30s.

Perhaps it's the game plan, but where are our 30+ midfielders outside occasionally Prestia? Where are our contested beasts outside Graham who, let's be fair, is more of a 15 possie 10 tackle player than a guy who wins 25-30 in contested situations. We just don't have them, and none of the guys you listed have shown anything like being that kind of player. It's clear as day that we need it. And yes I know it's not all about possession numbers, but all the games we lost in 2021 we got blown away in disposals and contested ball, we just didn't win the footy.

Feels like a simple way to fix that would have been a guy like Hobbs, the kind of pure midfielder we never seem to draft. Ah well.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post, didn't intend it go on for that long...

Good post, but I respectfully disagree.

I think it's unlikely that a player drafted in 2021 will help us win a flag in 2022. To do that, we need a bloody good run with injury and form. Even then, we need other clubs (e.g. Melbourne) to struggle. It's a long shot.

If our only focus was winning the flag in 2022 then we would have traded for Tom Mitchell. Like Hobbs, but with a Brownlow medal and proven ability as an inside mid to grab 40 possessions per game. We would have given up a late first and an early-mid second rounder for him.

Perhaps needless to say, we're trying to grab one more flag AND build a team that can content again around the middle of this decade. I think the Richmond way is best player at the draft, taking free agents when we can and being bold at the trade table (e.g. Prestia) to fill known gaps.

 

[RobsJourney]

whilst i do agree a mid early would of been nice, we have some promising young mids on our list already. We don't have have a gun young developing key defender to pair with Balta for the next 10 years (jury is out on miller and biggy). You have to remember that covid interrupted VFL seasons the last 2 years would of hurt guys like ross/dow/rcd. A full preseason now will hopefully have them improving massively and ready to explode in 2022

I really hope you're right, and I suspect that's the view the club is taking.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

tigers of old was talking him up. I think he was speculating we where offering red herrings and interested in him
I stated I think I know who we where picking, but not on anyones authority, intuition was the driver. Clearly I was wrong, but I am okay with not being perfect.
I would be disappointed if anyone really knew was releasing that info on BF

 

[Mr Magic]

Lacks zip and running power! Every single draft profile says he is the opposite and that he has breakaway speed and running power. He looks a great kick and is supposed to be elite in traffic. How does that not equate to a possible wingman. MacIntosh was also a half back, as was Pickett for a good while.

We do not have great wingman.

McIntosh gets a gig because he is one of the few that can contest on a number of levels, has the running power and help in defence etc.. Pickett is not a wingman, I think he is more a half forward if anything.

Good wingers are supposed to kick goals for starters like richo, Lids, help in defence like Bowden or help in the guts like Campbell

 

[RobsJourney]

Good post, but I respectfully disagree.

I think it's unlikely that a player drafted in 2021 will help us win a flag in 2022. To do that, we need a bloody good run with injury and form. Even then, we need other clubs (e.g. Melbourne) to struggle. It's a long shot.

If our only focus was winning the flag in 2022 then we would have traded for Tom Mitchell. Like Hobbs, but with a Brownlow medal and proven ability as an inside mid to grab 40 possessions per game. We would have given up a late first and an early-mid second rounder for him.

Perhaps needless to say, we're trying to grab one more flag AND build a team that can content again around the middle of this decade. I think the Richmond way is best player at the draft, taking free agents when we can and being bold at the trade table (e.g. Prestia) to fill known gaps.

Cheers.

Your reply is more than good but, I dunno, don't you think a gun midfielder in the top-10 has the potential to step straight into the best 22? Look at Port when they grabbed Rozee, Butters and Duursma in the same draft, they were transformed from a middling side into a real threat. Draft a quality kid and they can instantly improve you. You typically get that kind of player in the top 10, maybe top 15, but outside that then it's not as often. Hobbs is in that kind of category (assumption only, who actually knows how good he is or will be). Richmond has also shown in previous years that our first pick almost always ends up in the 22 in their first year. RCD is a pick 20 and so far has shown himself to be just okay, so it's hard to see him improving us next year.

I just think that for the future we need basically everything, we need mids just as much as we need defenders so Gibcus or Hobbs would have been just as good as each other to build for the future, but for the now, a midfielder like Hobbs would have slotted straight in.

Our focus isn't just on 2022 but we still clearly think we can contend in 2022 so it's part of the focus (hence Tarrant), and we clearly need some improvement in the midfield, some real gun quality that we don't seem to have in the cupboard behind our ageing stars, if indeed we want to improve on 2021. We couldn't afford Tom Mitchell, we weren't prepared to trade our picks and he would have cost too much salary.

Anyway, it's done now.

 

[SumTingWong]

Don't think he fits alongside Lynch. Gibcus however ...

Yep. Will be interesting if we take Bazzo too

 

[Roksman]

Well, I was right with one thing... Leek Alleer would get taken very early - copped a fair bit of heat for that but all is fair in love and war.

Happy with our picks, lots to play out still.

Melts were A-Grade, expect nothing less.

 

[tora tora tora]

Appreciate the long reply.

I absolutely don't claim to be an expert, definitely not, but forums are for an opinion in the end, and I feel it's pretty simple what I would have done and what we should have done. I'd have addressed our very, very obvious weakness, the midfield.

Like I and many others have said, yes Gibcus looks a really good prospect, perhaps the best available player at the pick we had, but right now we're in a weird situation - we're close to good enough to be the best still (if our best 20 players are fit), but we're also very close to needing a rebuild. Tarrant was recruited to cover for Astbury because we clearly think we can still contend right? So if we still think we can contend, what major weakness do we have that needs covering, to shore up the growing holes? Again, the midfield.

If we think we are still contending (again, shown by the recruitment of Tarrant) then not drafting midfielders at 9 and/or 17 tells me we think our best side is good enough and that the depth of RCD/Ross/Dow will be enough. Our depth showed in 2021 that it was pretty darn far off that... In fact, even when we had our full side in (which was rare) we had started to struggle a bit, whether that be due to any or all of age, the changed rules, the fact we normally start seasons slow on purpose, and maybe a little identity loss (I still maintain Essendon has completely thieved our gameplan and we've lost it).

Our midfield is ageing just as fast as Grimes and Tarrant, so both midfield and defence are as big a need as each other in that respect (as far as what we need to start the rebuild/next phase), so yes, drafting to cover that defence makes sense.

But, again, if we think we can still contend, then the absolute clear weakness to address right at this moment was the midfield, and to fix that we needed to draft the best available at pick 9 which was our highest pick in a long while, the kinda pick where you do end up with a likely gun. Again, not an expert, but best available midfielder at that pick was Ben Hobbs, an inside beast averaging 30 possessions despite coming off an ankle injury. Geez, imagine slotting him into our round 1 team alongside the rest of our blokes? I'd have been frothing at the idea. What about Gibcus and Brown, do either of them get past Grimes, Tarrant, Balta, Broad, Vlastuin, Short, heck even Mansell and Rioli? Almost definitely not, unless we have injuries again. The defence is set for our 2022 tilt already, the midfield is absolutely not.

So if we're looking to the now, we badly needed a gun midfielder. If we're looking to the future both near and far, well, we still need mids as much as defenders. So grabbing Hobbs would have addressed both now and the future in one go, but all we've done is shore up our defence for perhaps 2-4 years from now. Now we get into the 20s where you miss the out and out guns that almost certainly translate to gun AFL midfielders, and choose from guys who are now more speculative, clearly a tier or two down from their higher-rated teammates already drafted, so you start to rely a bit more on luck that one will come good. As I saw on Reddit, Richmond seems to love a "limited" midfielder, and that's what you have a far higher chance of ending up with once you get into the 20s and 30s.

Perhaps it's the game plan, but where are our 30+ midfielders outside occasionally Prestia? Where are our contested beasts outside Graham who, let's be fair, is more of a 15 possie 10 tackle player than a guy who wins 25-30 in contested situations. We just don't have them, and none of the guys you listed have shown anything like being that kind of player. It's clear as day that we need it. And yes I know it's not all about possession numbers, but all the games we lost in 2021 we got blown away in disposals and contested ball, we just didn't win the footy.

Feels like a simple way to fix that would have been a guy like Hobbs, the kind of pure midfielder we never seem to draft. Ah well.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post, didn't intend it go on for that long...

Not going for the gun mid with the first pick tells us that we think we can be competitive with this list. IF IF. Dusty and Dion can stay on the park, we should be competitive. Dusty is a huge question mark. To the club, must be recovering well. Soldo is important too.. a long time out of football though.
I suppose we are having a crack with this group and banking on different game plans. If that all goes awry then roll out the retirement mat.
We were an enigma this season. I saw a couple of good wins where ross, RCD, played well. other games on tv where we kicked 2 goals for a game. HUGE issues

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

I think the smart move by us is to say to other clubs we have x amount of players we rate but if most gone by our picks, number 28 is up for grabs.
Use it to increase our hand at next years draft.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Appreciate the long reply.

I absolutely don't claim to be an expert, definitely not, but forums are for an opinion in the end, and I feel it's pretty simple what I would have done and what we should have done. I'd have addressed our very, very obvious weakness, the midfield.

Like I and many others have said, yes Gibcus looks a really good prospect, perhaps the best available player at the pick we had, but right now we're in a weird situation - we're close to good enough to be the best still (if our best 20 players are fit), but we're also very close to needing a rebuild. Tarrant was recruited to cover for Astbury because we clearly think we can still contend right? So if we still think we can contend, what major weakness do we have that needs covering, to shore up the growing holes? Again, the midfield.

If we think we are still contending (again, shown by the recruitment of Tarrant) then not drafting midfielders at 9 and/or 17 tells me we think our best side is good enough and that the depth of RCD/Ross/Dow will be enough. Our depth showed in 2021 that it was pretty darn far off that... In fact, even when we had our full side in (which was rare) we had started to struggle a bit, whether that be due to any or all of age, the changed rules, the fact we normally start seasons slow on purpose, and maybe a little identity loss (I still maintain Essendon has completely thieved our gameplan and we've lost it).

Our midfield is ageing just as fast as Grimes and Tarrant, so both midfield and defence are as big a need as each other in that respect (as far as what we need to start the rebuild/next phase), so yes, drafting to cover that defence makes sense.

But, again, if we think we can still contend, then the absolute clear weakness to address right at this moment was the midfield, and to fix that we needed to draft the best available at pick 9 which was our highest pick in a long while, the kinda pick where you do end up with a likely gun. Again, not an expert, but best available midfielder at that pick was Ben Hobbs, an inside beast averaging 30 possessions despite coming off an ankle injury. Geez, imagine slotting him into our round 1 team alongside the rest of our blokes? I'd have been frothing at the idea. What about Gibcus and Brown, do either of them get past Grimes, Tarrant, Balta, Broad, Vlastuin, Short, heck even Mansell and Rioli? Almost definitely not, unless we have injuries again. The defence is set for our 2022 tilt already, the midfield is absolutely not.

So if we're looking to the now, we badly needed a gun midfielder. If we're looking to the future both near and far, well, we still need mids as much as defenders. So grabbing Hobbs would have addressed both now and the future in one go, but all we've done is shore up our defence for perhaps 2-4 years from now. Now we get into the 20s where you miss the out and out guns that almost certainly translate to gun AFL midfielders, and choose from guys who are now more speculative, clearly a tier or two down from their higher-rated teammates already drafted, so you start to rely a bit more on luck that one will come good. As I saw on Reddit, Richmond seems to love a "limited" midfielder, and that's what you have a far higher chance of ending up with once you get into the 20s and 30s.

Perhaps it's the game plan, but where are our 30+ midfielders outside occasionally Prestia? Where are our contested beasts outside Graham who, let's be fair, is more of a 15 possie 10 tackle player than a guy who wins 25-30 in contested situations. We just don't have them, and none of the guys you listed have shown anything like being that kind of player. It's clear as day that we need it. And yes I know it's not all about possession numbers, but all the games we lost in 2021 we got blown away in disposals and contested ball, we just didn't win the footy.

Feels like a simple way to fix that would have been a guy like Hobbs, the kind of pure midfielder we never seem to draft. Ah well.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post, didn't intend it go on for that long...

First I should apologize. Reading my response again this morning I realized that I would have come across as condescending and demeaning and potentially a personal attack. Certainly wasn’t my intention and credit to your response, it was a classy response. That is very much appreciated.

I should also state that I would have selected Johnson or Goater at 17; but understand why the club went with Brown.

But in relation to ‘shoring up the midfield’, if you look at the amount of players that have played in premiership teams in the first year of footy, I believe that there are only four:

- Jack Graham
- Liam Ryan
- Liam Baker
- Jack Bowey.

Obviously if you extrapolate to include preliminary finals, or go even further to the top 8 that number gets larger. But the fact remains that percentage wise the amount of first year players that can help contending teams is very low.

Therefore, I think it’s safe to infer that there is a very low likelihood that a draftee will make an impact - regardless of position - in their first year come finals time.

And this comes back to your point on Hobbs. I like Hobbs and can see the appeal, but I think it’s a very big stretch to assume that he makes the round 1 team.

Even if we assume he would have been in contention, is there anything that would suggest he has a greater ability now as say year 4 RCD and Jack Ross or year 3 Thomson Dow or Will Martyn? Not saying that Hobbs won’t end up being better than all four (and I think he has a chance), but your argument is about the now.

Even if we assume that Hobbs will improve over the course of the next 12 months, will that be enough to overtake those other four? He’s a chance, but I think it’s fair to say it’s unlikely.

So if that’s the case, using the draft as a vehicle to fix midfield problems now is a moot point. Players on successful teams seem to come into the frame more often in years two and three. And even then it’s more likely non-midfield types than midfield types (I’ll admit this is a statement made more of a glance at he top teams over the last five years than a rigorous analysis).

The conclusion one can draw is that if a midfield player taken in the draft is unlikely to help year one, why draft for that year? You’re going to have more success in drafting for three years down the track than for next season. And if you’re not drafting for next year, surely you take the best player available that is likely to have a better and impactful career.

Seems long replies are the order of the day

 

[M0557]

Prefer Gibcus or Johnson please, and pickup a good mid with pick 17.

We really could have had both!

In saying that there were comments going around that Johnson posed as a flight risk..... so maybe we have avoided something down the track.

And maybe the fact that WCE took Chesser over him may suggest something....