List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[M0557]

Draper, Sonsie and Knevitt I'd like.

Fahey and Owens will be before our picks too.

#21 - Freo - Matthew Johnson
#22 - Norf - Jesse Motlop
#23 - Hawks - Tyler Sonsie
#24 - Geelong - Mitch Knevitt
#25 - Geelong - Toby Conway
#26 - Saints - Mitch Owens
#27 - GWS - Josh Fahey
#28 - Hawks - Blake Howes
#29 - Carlton - Connor Macdonald
#30 - Richmond - Arlo Draper
#31 - Richmond - Josh Goater
#32 - Richmond - Zac Taylor

Wonder if we are aggressive here, package 2 of those picks and look to grab either 22, 23, or 24.

Sonsie has been linked to us for a while, time to make a play and grab him. Hawks really keen.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

We really could have had both!

In saying that there were comments going around that Johnson posed as a flight risk..... so maybe we have avoided something down the track.

And maybe the fact that WCE took Chesser over him may suggest something....

I wonder if he might be another Sydney Stack? Tipped to go early then overlooked by everyone for specific reasons

 

[Joey longshadow]

Now that we have Gibcus, we don't need Bazzo, we need a KPF like Williams if going tall.

We should also be looking at some of the mids like Draper, Johnson, Goater, Knevitt, Taylor.

Something like Draper, Williams, Goater would be a good second night.

Might also be some value trading out the final pick of the three after we secure our top 2 targets, there might be a club willing to offer next year's 2nd + a 3rd for this pick + next years fourth maybe, or something to that effect.

If we get Draper...Williams and Goater I'll be very content

 

[RobsJourney]

First I should apologize. Reading my response again this morning I realized that I would have come across as condescending and demeaning and potentially a personal attack. Certainly wasn’t my intention and credit to your response, it was a classy response. That is very much appreciated.

I should also state that I would have selected Johnson or Goater at 17; but understand why the club went with Brown.

But in relation to ‘shoring up the midfield’, if you look at the amount of players that have played in premiership teams in the first year of footy, I believe that there are only four:

- Jack Graham
- Liam Ryan
- Liam Baker
- Jack Bowey.

Obviously if you extrapolate to include preliminary finals, or go even further to the top 8 that number gets larger. But the fact remains that percentage wise the amount of first year players that can help contending teams is very low.

Therefore, I think it’s safe to infer that there is a very low likelihood that a draftee will make an impact - regardless of position - in their first year come finals time.

And this comes back to your point on Hobbs. I like Hobbs and can see the appeal, but I think it’s a very big stretch to assume that he makes the round 1 team.

Even if we assume he would have been in contention, is there anything that would suggest he has a greater ability now as say year 4 RCD and Jack Ross or year 3 Thomson Dow or Will Martyn? Not saying that Hobbs won’t end up being better than all four (and I think he has a chance), but your argument is about the now.

Even if we assume that Hobbs will improve over the course of the next 12 months, will that be enough to overtake those other four? He’s a chance, but I think it’s fair to say it’s unlikely.

So if that’s the case, using the draft as a vehicle to fix midfield problems now is a moot point. Players on successful teams seem to come into the frame more often in years two and three. And even then it’s more likely non-midfield types than midfield types (I’ll admit this is a statement made more of a glance at he top teams over the last five years than a rigorous analysis).

The conclusion one can draw is that if a midfield player taken in the draft is unlikely to help year one, why draft for that year? You’re going to have more success in drafting for three years down the track than for next season. And if you’re not drafting for next year, surely you take the best player available that is likely to have a better and impactful career.

Seems long replies are the order of the day

All good, I didn't feel attacked Cheers

Just to be sure, are you looking at only recent years? Cause I'm sure there are plenty of first year players that have played in premiership teams, eg. Joel Selwood who basically played every game in 2007 and he definitely made Geelong an even better side that season.

And you're right, it's not really fair to say Hobbs would straight away pass RCD etc, but based on RCD's output in 2021 along with our other depth, you'd have to be lying if you said you weren't worried about our midfield prospects for 2022... We got wrecked through the middle, whether it be clearance, disposal numbers, contested possession, no wonder our defence looked way worse than normal. Our midfield depth simply did not look great and even our full contingent was looking shakier than normal.

Hobbs, whilst yes a first year player, would have had a point of difference to our depth in that he is in that A-grade tier, he was looked at even as high as Suns' pick 3. All our depth players are late first round or beyond types. Again, it's still based on hope/potential (Tom Scully for example, turned out to be terrible), but I reckon Hobbs would at least have been a very good chance of quickly leapfrogging our depth. Would you take first year Cotchin or Dusty (or first year Zac Butters) over current RCD/Ross/Dow etc? Surely. Hard to compare Hobbs to Dusty of course, but a first year draft pick in that really high range is always a good chance of stepping straight into the team, and he was already averaging 30 touches which none of our depth did in the under 18s.

Anyway, it's done now, I just hope I don't see Hobbs killing it for Essendon next season whilst we field the exact same 22 as we did in 2021 and play the same way. Sometimes one gun midfielder can make all the difference to a midfield as a whole, and I really think it's what we needed...

 

[Infamy]

Don’t think Freeman’s body can hold up to being a full time athlete
Is fine with vfl training programs but his entire time in the AFL system he was plagued with soft tissue injury’s

Could have said the same thing about Dylan Grimes for a lot of his early career
Sometimes a players body just needs to mature

 

[RobsJourney]

I've been harping on about my annoyance that we didn't draft a top-rated midfielder at pick 9, however, I'll concede that the timing of Gibcus is probably good given Tarrant and Grimes are still there to teach him as current players.

If we drafted a tall, say, next year or the year after, it may well have been too late.

Anyway, I hate Essendon. If Hobbs kills it for them I'll be pissed.

 

[fargothegreat]

Yep. Will be interesting if we take Bazzo too

I could get on board with that, but I think I prefer Conway if we're gonna take another tall.

 

[Marcel Proust]

I think as a collective we are too weak across the midfield against the competition.

I assume Mathew Johnson said he was not going interstate which was suggested on the bombers board when I thought I was on the RFC board.

Goater is a North supporter so he probably goes to them but they are starting to have a stacked midfield and getting JHF is a massive kick in their arse to get them going.

Motlop we do not need as a small forward, Shai is so much better, let alone Stacky, Taylor might get to us, we do not want Conway, we have enough rucks. There are some handy players still available to get to us if we are lucky but we are weak across the midfield including the wings, especially for size. Dusty cannot do it all. I have said it before RCD is more a back who can rotate into the midfield for me, could have used Goaters zip and reach even if his kicking was a little iffy at times. Knevitt does not do it for me in terms of the strings and others seem more on the vanilla side, still there are some handy players at value still possible but the X-factor drops off

If we assume Johnson is the big flight risk I would trade up for Goater at least but we are allergic to trading but thats just me. Still other bigfooty posters thinking similar thoughts mentioning Butler and so forth, they are aware of the talent and are not idiots. Even West Coast ignored Johnson which was interesting.

RFC is weakest on the wings and Brown is not the solution I think, he is a back. Like Brisbane I respect the wing position and the hybrids some clubs attempt are farcical. I think Goater would make a very handy winger who could help in the guts, same with Johnson

I was also hoping Richmond would draft someone who can play wing.

Brown looks like the best option after nwm and Sinn?

Maybe wilmot and chesser too who were also gone.

Apparently brown has played wing and seems to have good attributes for the future when be adds some beef.

"The clean running defender, who can also push up the ground and play off a wing, has some eye-catching outside traits, and nice footy smarts to-boot. His athletic abilities combined with his smarts and ability to read the play make him a natural outside player, with his strength and contested work areas to improve on.



STRENGTHS:

+ Speed
+ Athleticism
+ Rebounding
+ Footy smarts
+ Reading the play
+ Clean hands"

 

[fargothegreat]

I was also hoping Richmond would draft someone who can play wing.

Brown looks like the best option after nwm and Sinn?

Howes is still available and has the right skillset to be a wingman for us.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Howes is still available and has the right skillset to be a wingman for us.

Only live 7 picks untill the Richmond trio

Freo. Norf. Haw. Gee. Gee. Haw. Car.

Sounds like a decent chance he makes it to Richmond if they want him.

 

[Marcel Proust]

If we get Draper...Williams and Goater I'll be very content

Draper sounds class

 

[Marcel Proust]

Bazzo is a key backman

He played forward too apparently and did pretty well. Iirc Kevin Sheehan said he played well as a forward

Bazzo and Gibcus would be a solid haul imho.

"
POSITION: Tall Defender/Forward



SNAPSHOT: "A promising swingman who thrives aerially, Bazzo looks most comfortable down back where he can read the play, intercept, and distribute by foot.""


"
Able to play at both ends of the ground, the 195cm talent stands up in big games and is a terrific aerial feature.



STRENGTHS:

+ Reading the play
+ Intercept marking
+ Distribution
+ Composure
+ Versatility"

Bottom age too and 195cm

I am on the bazzo bandwagon

 

[daird]

Am I being too hopeful when I say I hope we walk away with these guys?
Williams/Bazzo
Knevitt/Goater
Roberts

 

[fargothegreat]

Only live 7 picks untill the Richmond trio

Freo. Norf. Haw. Gee. Gee. Haw. Car.

Sounds like a decent chance he makes it to Richmond if they want him.

I reckon the Hawks might take him with one of their picks, but I also think things could get a bit wild with a few bolters like the end of the first round.

 

[Mr Magic]

Howes is still available and has the right skillset to be a wingman for us.

Nah, he is not agile enough.

He looks more like a forward or specifically half forward. Do not think he will make it to our picks anyway.

To be a good wingman a number of bases have to be covered which is why hybrids do not really work usually. The more likely hybrids are wingers than can go in the guts these days like a Campbell/Brayshaw.

He can run, but moves more like a forward to me.

Need players that are effective on the ground as well as the air to be good wingers unless they are aerial freaks like Richo.

I don't think Howes is good enough on the ground for wing, it can be hidden in the forward line with support and structure but in open space wings players are open by themselves too much and can be exposed

 

[Marcel Proust]

I reckon the Hawks might take him with one of their picks, but I also think things could get a bit wild with a few bolters like the end of the first round.

Freo - Johnson
Norf - bazzo
Hawf - sonsie
Gee - Taylor
Gee - goater
Hawf - draper / Howes
Carlton - butler

I'm guessing it goes something like that.

Crows/port trade up for draper most likely or Norf take him to hold Horne's hand.

Hopefully Geelong takes the ruckman and there are another bolter or two to open things up for Richmond.

 

[fargothegreat]

Nah, he is not agile enough.

He looks more like a forward or specifically half forward. Do not think he will make it to our picks anyway.

To be a good wingman a number of bases have to be covered which is why hybrids do not really work usually. The more likely hybrids are wingers than can go in the guts these days like a Campbell/Brayshaw.

He can run, but moves more like a forward to me.

Need players that are effective on the ground as well as the air to be good wingers unless they are aerial freaks like Richo

For most clubs I'd agree with you, but we tend to hold our wings out a bit wider, and use them more as defensive reinforcements than extra numbers around the contest.

 

[fargothegreat]

Freo - Johnson
Norf - bazzo
Hawf - sonsie
Gee - Taylor
Gee - goater
Hawf - draper / Howes
Carlton - butler

I'm guessing it goes something like that.

Crows/port trade up for draper most likely or Norf take him to hold Horne's hand.

Hopefully Geelong takes the ruckman and there are another bolter or two to open things up for Richmond.

Gee there are definitely some good names left. If the above happens then I think we jump at Motlop, but I suspect North take him ahead of Bazzo.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Nah, he is not agile enough.

He looks more like a forward or specifically half forward. Do not think he will make it to our picks anyway.

To be a good wingman a number of bases have to be covered which is why hybrids do not really work usually. The more likely hybrids are wingers than can go in the guts these days like a Campbell/Brayshaw.

He can run, but moves more like a forward to me.

Need players that are effective on the ground as well as the air to be good wingers unless they are aerial freaks like Richo.

I don't think Howes is good enough on the ground for wing, it can be hidden in the forward line with support and structure but in open space wings players are open by themselves too much and can be exposed

How does he compare to Pickett. McIntosh. Caddy ?

Ralphsmith obviously high hopes for too

 

[Mr Magic]

For most clubs I'd agree with you, but we tend to hold our wings out a bit wider, and use them more as defensive reinforcements than extra numbers around the contest.

Yeah but we can't keep getting away with that because your only as strong as your weakest link and Dusty can't do most of it forever. We need more balance

 

[Marcel Proust]

Gee there are definitely some good names left. If the above happens then I think we jump at Motlop, but I suspect North take him ahead of Bazzo.

If norf don't get bazzo to replace Tarrant Carlton will for the anti vaxxers spot

 

[SumTingWong]

Freo - Johnson
Norf - bazzo
Hawf - sonsie
Gee - Taylor
Gee - goater
Hawf - draper / Howes
Carlton - butler

I'm guessing it goes something like that.

Crows/port trade up for draper most likely or Norf take him to hold Horne's hand.

Hopefully Geelong takes the ruckman and there are another bolter or two to open things up for Richmond.

Conway to Geelong?

 

[Mr Magic]

How does he compare to Pickett. McIntosh. Caddy ?

Ralphsmith obviously high hopes for too

None of those are wingers either. Ralphsmith to me looks like a half forward, Caddy is a forward, Pickett more forward but has skill to be a handyman and McIntosh is more a wingman/back hybrid. Ralphsmith, to me, is in a similar mould to Howes

We are talking about improving performance to get a edge in different ways to win premierships so it might seem minor but every difference matters

 

[Mr Magic]

Freo - Johnson
Norf - bazzo
Hawf - sonsie
Gee - Taylor
Gee - goater
Hawf - draper / Howes
Carlton - butler

I'm guessing it goes something like that.

Crows/port trade up for draper most likely or Norf take him to hold Horne's hand.

Hopefully Geelong takes the ruckman and there are another bolter or two to open things up for Richmond.

This is why we are better off trading up to get Johnson or Goater.

I think Freo is trading back its just a question of to who? North might to.

I would not even be happy with Wilmot and Chesser as wingman. They seem more half back but Wilmot may do more given how young he is. Wilmot might even go in the guts when he develops.

NWM looks too outside for me.

Sinn is a better candidate like Brown. Sinn is a left footer which helps for that flank but he is a good kick and has enough in terms of tricks he can utilise in theory. Sinn might end up in the midfield because his season was disrupted and Vic Metro had others to play in the guts

 

[Marcel Proust]

Conway to Geelong?

Sounds like the logical fit but their supporters want two mids instead