List Mgmt. 2021 NAB National AFL Draft

Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Updated, thanks sr36

We went into the trade and draft period with ..

Max Lynch

2021 Pick 34
2021 Pick 39
2021 Pick 41
2021 Pick 45

2022 CFC first round
2022 CFC second round
2022 CFC third round
2022 CFC fourth round

We came out of the trade and draft period with …

Patrick Lipinski
Nathan Krueger

2021 Pick 4 Nick Daicos
2021 Pick 45 Arlo Draper
2021 Pick 49 Cooper Murley
2021 Pick 52 Harvey Harrison

2022 CFC first round
2022 Hawks third round
2022 Richmond third round
2022 Western Bulldogs third round

… that all seems like a good outcome?

Hopefully we can turn them 3rds next year into a first from an Academy bid team through up trading into 2nds.
 
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It is a tad strange that its well known we lack KP talls yet we recruit 4 players under 185 cm - anyway we will see.

We Drafted 3 Talls in National and Mid-Season Draft and Traded for one in the Trade Period
 
Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Personally I don’t think getting a first rounder for those later picks was ever realistically a chance.

I know those clubs need points, but that can surely be obtained when you’ve got a full draft hand by trading down later picks and trading in post first round future picks.

At least that would be the smarter move.

So your suggesting only we are dumb enough to do it.
Pick 2 for 20 and 27 etc

Dogs too did a mixture of trade out and trade downs.
 
I find it amusing that some people have lost their sh!t because we gave up a future 3rd rounder(likely 50 plus) so we could move up 2 spots and snare Draper. I can only assume those people have never negotiated a thing in their life. Clearly we rate the kid and knew he’d be gone if we didn’t do the trade. The cats aren’t going to give us the pick out if good will. We needed to give up something that would get it done(and it’s only 50plus next year)

I really think people get to caught up in the number. It’s player you take with that number thAts important. Time will tell but clearly our people rated him much higher than 45

I have been sales, sales manager and national sales manager for 14 years.

I still sell to this day and can tell you that dropping your pants with the best offer first up usually never works out, Sales is about either winning or breaking even to get towards a target.

You never lose as the mindset needs to be you walked away from the deal after doing everything possible to win or atleast break even.

It's bit rich to rubbish comments from posters about trading a future 3rd when that's what we were trading pick 2 for last year a 2nd and couple 3rds which was a huge loss.

Having 4 3rds might have been the difference in getting Brisbane 1st rounder next season due to F/S.

Time will tell.
 
Jul 21, 2008
25,863
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Melbourne
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Collingwood
How are we going to replace fullback, find a quality full forward and intercepting defenders with only 1 1st rd pick a year? Wanting the rebuild to take 6-8 years?

Your dogged insistence on only seeking KPP from top 20 picks comes undone in several ways

- only 1 first rd pick a year to spend

- 1st rd KPP are regularly busts like Boyd, MCCartin, Patton, Schache, Brander (you claim), etc etc

- Collingwoods recent KPP success stories have 90% been late picks or recycled players like Dunn, Roughead, Mihocek, Cameron etc.

But your the self proclaimed ‘smart amongst us’ lol
We have had the opportunity to take a young top 20 tall. We passed up on it, preferring the likes of Stephenson, Freeman and Scharenberg. Sure there are busts to be had but there are also wins, players who will hold down a KPP position for 10 years. Of the 4 late picks you mention, none are truly capable of playing a key forward post. We need to seize the opportunity to select an elite KPP when the opportunity is there.
 

JuniorB

Premiership Player
Oct 4, 2021
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We have had the opportunity to take a young top 20 tall. We passed up on it, preferring the likes of Stephenson, Freeman and Scharenberg. Sure there are busts to be had but there are also wins, players who will hold down a KPP position for 10 years. Of the 4 late picks you mention, none are truly capable of playing a key forward post. We need to seize the opportunity to select an elite KPP when the opportunity is there.
I suspect we're keeping our powder dry for next year, when there will supposedly be a good crop of talls. Those 3 future 3rds could still come into play to get us up the order.
 

well left

Premiership Player
May 3, 2008
3,160
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I find it amusing that some people have lost their sh!t because we gave up a future 3rd rounder(likely 50 plus) so we could move up 2 spots and snare Draper. I can only assume those people have never negotiated a thing in their life. Clearly we rate the kid and knew he’d be gone if we didn’t do the trade. The cats aren’t going to give us the pick out if good will. We needed to give up something that would get it done(and it’s only 50plus next year)

I really think people get to caught up in the number. It’s player you take with that number thAts important. Time will tell but clearly our people rated him much higher than 45

Interesting isn’t it. I think you’re right.

If we’d have traded 47 and the future 3rd for 37 and drafted Draper with that pick the optics would look different but the result is the same.

Maybe we had a deal ready for 37 to take him but got intel he was going to slip further.

Either way I’m sure we are going to say we had him higher on our board!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Seedsfan

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 10, 2013
15,953
10,544
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Your the one changing facts mate.

They traded a unknown first round funny thing is AFL isn't a 1 horse race and the team the year before had already shown signs of drop off.
This unkown pick turned out to be pick 2. They traded pick 2 FACT. Indisputable.

Happy for you to keep your head stuck in the mud and pretend it was traded for something else.

At this stage I dont even really care but don't piss down people's backs and the tell them its raining.
💯
 

No SPIN

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 14, 2009
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To the critics.
In what alternative reality did the 1st RD pick traded to GWS, have the number 2 marked on it the day it changed hands?

The whinging and hand wringing on this issue is just laughable.

Maybe these same people can tell us the number on our 2022 1st Rounder, just so the Club can be apprised accordingly, and get ahead of the game.
 
Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
To the critics.
In what alternative reality did the 1st RD pick traded to GWS, have the number 2 marked on it the day it changed hands?

The whinging and hand wringing on this issue is just laughable.

Maybe these same people can tell us the number on our 2022 1st Rounder, just so the Club can be apprised accordingly, and get ahead of the game.

You know you can trade it AFTER finding out your finish position.

It might not of had pick 2 written down but given the pick is not set it is every chance of being pick 2 as it is pick 10 or 16.

History will show it was pick 2 for 2 picks in the 20s.

You can not deny that its a fact.

Now depending on how good Poulter and McMahon become will be the judge of the deal making the best of a poor trade. But even given that it was a poor outcome.

This is the risk when you constantly trade out of drafts using future stocks.

Interestingly Brisbane and Essendon are doing a wait and see probably after watching the joke that was the pies giving up pick 2 for peanuts going "early".
 
I have been sales, sales manager and national sales manager for 14 years.

I still sell to this day and can tell you that dropping your pants with the best offer first up usually never works out, Sales is about either winning or breaking even to get towards a target.

You don’t think drafting is closer to the science of economics than the science of sales?

Sales typically don’t have to deal with buying and selling triggering significant inflation and deflation events, buying from and selling in a market who are all competitors, buying and selling futures.
 

Peter Sidorkiewicz

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2004
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It is a tad strange that its well known we lack KP talls yet we recruit 4 players under 185 cm - anyway we will see.
It is quite clear from his drafting history that Derek Hine does not rate key position players. The majority time they are late picks, rookies or speculative international selection. Each of these are long shots to become 100 game+ AFL regulars.

Which is a bit strange given his first he absolutely nailed picking Ben Reid and Nathan Brown, great selections. Both premiership players and great servants to the club for 10 years
 
It is quite clear from his drafting history that Derek Hine does not rate key position players. The majority time they are late picks, rookies or speculative international selection. Each of these are long shots to become 100 game+ AFL regulars.

Which is a bit strange given his first he absolutely nailed picking Ben Reid and Nathan Brown, great selections. Both premiership players and great servants to the club for 10 years

Maybe because Recently we had not had a Ton of Top 20-30 Draft Picks
 

Peter Sidorkiewicz

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2004
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Does anyone know if Aiden Begg is capable of being a full time VFL ruck next season. Because I dont think Mason Cox can play that role. He can give a chop out for 5 minutes each quarter but that's it.
 

No SPIN

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 14, 2009
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You know you can trade it AFTER finding out your finish position.

It might not of had pick 2 written down but given the pick is not set it is every chance of being pick 2 as it is pick 10 or 16.

History will show it was pick 2 for 2 picks in the 20s.

You can not deny that its a fact.

Now depending on how good Poulter and McMahon become will be the judge of the deal making the best of a poor trade. But even given that it was a poor outcome.

This is the risk when you constantly trade out of drafts using future stocks.

Interestingly Brisbane and Essendon are doing a wait and see probably after watching the joke that was the pies giving up pick 2 for peanuts going "early".

history will show it was a 1st RD pick for 2 picks in the 20’s.

Hindsight will show it was Pick 2 for 2 picks in the 20’s.

History will also show no one predicted its value was Pick 2 on the day it was traded.
So history will ask if the prevailing view at the time of a 6-10 finish in 2021, and a projected value of pick 9 - 13 was fair for 2 picks in the 20’s.

That’s the fair and unbiased view of how to assess the deal, with information known at the time.

Any other assessment is pure revisionism, or hindsight, that offers no guidance as to future trade strategy.
It just reinforces the inherent uncertainty of trading, in the absence of a crystal ball.
 
Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
history will show it was a 1st RD pick for 2 picks in the 20’s.

Hindsight will show it was Pick 2 for 2 picks in the 20’s.

History will also show no one predicted its value was Pick 2 on the day it was traded.
So history will ask if the prevailing view at the time of a 6-10 finish in 2021, and a projected value of pick 9 - 13 was fair for 2 picks in the 20’s.

That’s the fair and unbiased view of how to assess the deal, with information known at the time.

Any other assessment is pure revisionism, or hindsight, that offers no guidance as to future trade strategy.
It just reinforces the inherent uncertainty of trading, in the absence of a crystal ball.

History will show it was pick 2. That is what was traded.

They gambled and lost face it.

Some of us were not a fan of trading it last year and thought wiser to trade it this draft after knowing which pick.
 
Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
It is quite clear from his drafting history that Derek Hine does not rate key position players. The majority time they are late picks, rookies or speculative international selection. Each of these are long shots to become 100 game+ AFL regulars.

Which is a bit strange given his first he absolutely nailed picking Ben Reid and Nathan Brown, great selections. Both premiership players and great servants to the club for 10 years

Got our spine Reid pick 8, Brown pick 10 and Dawes pick 23.
 

partypie

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 26, 2013
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Does anyone know if Aiden Begg is capable of being a full time VFL ruck next season. Because I dont think Mason Cox can play that role. He can give a chop out for 5 minutes each quarter but that's it.

Maybe if Mason is actually prepared for the ruck role rather than as a forward ruck we might see a bit more out of him in the middle.

We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out, but our coaching group seems confident that he can handle the load if needs be.
 
Could we pass on the Rookie Draft this Afternoon and Choose to either Bring a Player or 2 to try and get that last List Spot or even keep it for the Mid-Season Draft?
 
Aug 29, 2005
30,287
26,916
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thats hindsight not history.
You can’t rewrite history.

Mate that is what it was its not hindsight its a fact. They took the risk it could be that pick and it was. When people look back at the deal they will see pick 2 2022 for 2021 pick 20 and 27 its locked in and as you say can't be rewritten.

It is also a fact at the time they didn't know what pick they were giving up so given that they had to be prepared for it to be low.

It is also a fact many were calling to hold the pick until we know what we have just INCASE it was a bot 5 pick. Erring on the side of caution. Many predicted us to fall just not as far as we did.

They basically bet the other way and thought we would be finalists.
 
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