Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Are you for or against Mandatory Vaccinations

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    Votes: 292 57.4%

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    Votes: 221 43.4%
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BlueE said:
Quoting the family: "The devastated family of the youngest woman to die after contracting Covid-19 have revealed she died of pneumonia after findings from the coroner were handed down."

"A statement issued by the family this week said Mrs Isaako's official cause of death was pneumonia."

"COVID pneumonia" and bacterial pneumonia are different, affect the body differently and are treated differently.

However, going back to classifying COVID-19 as COD, both WHO and ABS instruct if pneumonia present, COVID -19 is to be written as the underlying COD.

Perhaps that's why pneumonia deaths went down in Australia by around 1300 in 2020?
Click to expand...

You just ignored everythign I just said. I''l just repeat in point form.

- you don't need a autopsy to know what the infection was, blood test is fine and would've been done when she was alive
- no inqest was made which leads me to believe that the coroner found that Covid was the COD

I love how you are "teaching" me the difference between bacterial and viral pneumonia. Hilarious. Any more info on those "genetic" vaccines?
 

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BlueE said:
Quoting the family: "The devastated family of the youngest woman to die after contracting Covid-19 have revealed she died of pneumonia after findings from the coroner were handed down."

"A statement issued by the family this week said Mrs Isaako's official cause of death was pneumonia."

"COVID pneumonia" and bacterial pneumonia are different, affect the body differently and are treated differently.

However, going back to classifying COVID-19 as COD, both WHO and ABS instruct if pneumonia present, COVID -19 is to be written as the underlying COD.

Perhaps that's why pneumonia deaths went down in Australia by around 1300 in 2020?
Click to expand...
There were 900 COVID deaths, what happened to the other 400?
 
BlueE said:
You are the coroner?? You agreed with me about COD, so DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THE MEDICINE??

I've already posted the link a couple of times for the 30 year old, ONCE IN THIS THREAD, that had an autopsy that changed her COD from what the officials said was COVID-19, to pneumonia.

Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Pneumonia, or other respiratory conditions if present are instructed to be contributing, but not the main cause of death. This is not true, and is outlined in the information you have posted yourself and in the clarifications you've had directed to you. Covid is never listed as the cause of...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com

Shattered family of Australia's youngest Covid victim, 30, reveal the REAL cause of her death - as they threaten to SUE over the tragedy
  • Family of youngest woman is NSW to die with Covid reveal the coroner's findings
  • Ianeta Isaako, 30, collapsed in her home shortly after contracting coronavirus
  • The young mother's official cause of death was found to be pneumonia

www.dailymail.co.uk

Family of Australia's youngest Covid victim reveal REAL cause of death

Ianeta Isaako's family have revealed her official cause of death after the mum-of-three was reported to be NSW's youngest female Covid victim at just 30 years old.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

www.news.com.au

Sydney’s 30yo covid-19 victim identified

A 30-year-old mother of three has died at home in Sydney’s west after being diagnosed with Covid-19.
www.news.com.au www.news.com.au
Click to expand...
So, where does it say that the pneumonia wasn't caused by covid?

FYI, I'm fairly sure the family are angry at their daughter being labelled an 'anti-vaxxer' by media outlets. The article doesn't say anything about the pneumonia not being from covid.
 
I mean none of these arguments are new and they’ve all been debunked in this thread already. Why is it being allowed to just go on and on circularly? I’d almost say close the thread unless something new actually happens
 
BlueE said:
On August 23, 2021, FDA approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) for ages 16 and over in the US, while extending the Emergency Use Authorisation for Pfizer for 12 to 15 year olds. It was after this meeting the FDA ordered 10 trials on myo and pericarditis for various ages 30 and under that won't be completed until 2023 to 2027, because of safety concerns.

In the May 10, 2021 meeting where emergency use authorisation for 12 to 15 years of age was first given, FDA reviewed safety and effectiveness data for 2,260 12-15 year olds divided 1:1, who were followed for a median of 2 months after receiving the second dose. Effectiveness was only looked at one month after the second dose.

However 300 subjects dropped out of the study after the first dose and others complained that they had serious adverse events that were ignored. One was 12 year old Maddie who was paralysed from the waist down. She testified infront of a Congressional committee the day after her second dose in Jan 2021, she started to lose all feeling below her waist and Pfizer refused to diagnose her saying she had anxiety, until after the data went into the FDA hearing.

Here is the DEAN report link for under 1 to 16 years of age for COVID-19 vaccines. I haven't verified the deaths.

Safety information & education

This section includes links to articles about the general safety of medicines and medical devices, including how the safety of products i
apps.tga.gov.au apps.tga.gov.au

Click to expand...


When you say 'dropped out' can we be sure they voluntary removed themselves from the study or were they removed in the same manner as Brianne Dressen?

https://davidhealy.org/new-england-...zojhxZV0cJsk7hbLQniJItRIjIOceB2gWrIvyrwHUtXGs
 
Roby said:
Trivialising the effects of Covid on children is arguably the most repugnant thing I have seen on this site.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you didn't quote a specific post when making this comment because I can't say I've seen evidence of the behaviour you've described. It would be like me saying 'trivialising the effects of the Covid vaccine on children is arguably the most repugnant thing I have seen on this site' without pointing to the post or posts I had in mind.
 
The Bomb said:
So Covid doesn't hurt healthy young children and young adults, but need to be vaccinated for their safety. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Click to expand...
Though children are less likely to develop severe illness from Covid than adults, they are still at risk, and can also spread the virus to adults. Experts have warned that children should be vaccinated to protect against possible long-Covid symptoms, Multi-system Inflammatory Syndrome and hospitalization.

At the end of October, about 8,300 American children ages 5 to 11 have been hospitalized with Covid and at least 172 have died, out of more than 3.2 million hospitalizations and 740,000 deaths overall, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

At a news conference on Friday, Dr. Janet Woodcock, the acting commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said hospitalizations and deaths among 5- to 11-year-olds were “really startling.”
 
BlueE said:
I've already had many posts with you specifically about COVID-19 as Cause of Death on another thread, where I provided both the WHO link which has the example you're using and the ABS link which has the Australian deaths certificate. There is not setting up for anything, as you have seen those very examples and the reasoning and only one answer, so spare the spam.

I only put "mode of dying" as an answer to a question by you about what ARDS is if it's not the cause of death? More correctly on the death certificate and examples, ARDS is the "Disease or condition leading directly to death". ARDS is not the COD in any definition, any example, or used for reporting national statics for causes of death.

You made the point with the WHO example you are using is only a "Guide" and doesn't have to be used, so it is the ABS instructions and examples that are relevant to Australia.

I'm not on this site all day to make multiple posts, but the reason why this is important is because COVID-19 is being counted as the cause of death in two 15 year olds and a ten year old against the parents wishes, when they've had significant comorbidities like meningitis or advanced cancer, and in other cases such as the 30 year old women who after autopsy had her cause of death changed to pneumonia.

At the moment these deaths are still being counted as COVID-19, but hopefully after review they'll be taken off becasue unless there are serious illnesses or conditions the flu is more serious for children under 18. However both Moderna and Pfizer have serious safety concerns for young people under 30 and children and children 12 and over are being coerced into taking them.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ that you werent trying to set me up, but I can live with it. From your first post I actually suspected and kinda knew were you were going but wanted to see if you would actually state things correctly. In your first few questions, you didnt. You kept asking me what was the cause of death, including in the post I quoted where you said "I can read it and understand it but am asking you what is the cause of death?" and as I was replying you changed the whole post to the one with the death cert pics and "this is a covid death".
Now I know you dont agree that the first written thing at 1a is a cause of death, but it actually is for the purposes of a death cert, which is what my concern is.
If you looked at an actual death cert, you would see that down the bottom it actually says in regards line 1a "This means the disease, injury or complication which caused the death not only for example the mode of dying". Note that it says "caused the death". So the ABS actually states quite clearly that the direct cause of death is what is written in line 1a. However, and this is where you have came unstuck and I knew this all along. when you say "cause of death" you are only referring to the underlying cause and the epidemiology of how its coded. It took you another couple of posts to actually say that. I even gave you the underlying cause in my first reply "due to covid". But, because you were stuck on what you think cod is and how it should be interpreted, you wouldnt stop and consider what myself (and others) were saying. I even said " The COD of death on the cert is ARDS. Because Covid is written as the antecedent it will be coded as a covid death" and "You asked me the cause of death. The cause of death on that med cert according to how doctors actually write it is ARDS....Because the ARDS was directly attributable to Covid (as its in the antecedent events) it will be coded as a covid death.I dont know why you dont understand this". If only you had of been specific and asked "What is the underlying cause of death? How will the ABS code this death cert?" But you didnt ask that, because you were trying to prove me wrong, but you were confused between cause of death and underlying cod. I have never been confused about these 2 terms and how they differ. As i said in the prior discussion about this "doctor dont do coding", we do death certs. Epidemiologists do coding and the underlying causes of death are very important to them.
Here is an actual death cert from the ABS. Note the asterisk and the explanation:
Screenshot at 2021-11-26 04-13-47.png

Screenshot at 2021-11-25 18-25-07.png
I am not here to win the internet but will stand my ground when people think they know but that belief wont change even in the light of evidence to the contrary.
In those certs the direct cod of death was ARDS, due to pneumonia, due to covid, The person died from ARDS secondary to covid. We know this because ARDS is listed at 1a.
The direct cod was ARDS, the underlying cod was covid.
The ABS will code that as a covid death because its the underlying cause of death as its the antecedent that started the whole chain of morbid events.
Its also wrong for you to say ARDS is not used for reporting national statics for causes of death because what is listed at 1a is actually used in ABS stats. They use that data to determine what events took place in relationship to the underlying cause. This info is on the ABS site.
Now thats enough of that and I am done with it :)
"because COVID-19 is being counted as the cause of death in two 15 year olds and a ten year old against the parents wishes, when they've had significant comorbidities like meningitis or advanced cancer, and in other cases such as the 30 year old women who after autopsy had her cause of death changed to pneumonia". The ABS will only code covid as the cause of death when its listed on the death cert, either as the direct COD or in the chain of morbid events. As we clarified earlier, the ABS stats dont match what the other data says, as "Mortality data compiled by the ABS is not based on this daily surveillance. Instead, it is based on death registrations processed by the jurisdictional Registries of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and information on the cause of death sourced from a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) completed by a certifying practitioner. Mortality data tabulated from the disease surveillance system and the registration system are not directly comparable".
 
Last edited:
BlueE said:
However, going back to classifying COVID-19 as COD, both WHO and ABS instruct if pneumonia present, COVID -19 is to be written as the underlying COD.
Perhaps that's why pneumonia deaths went down in Australia by around 1300 in 2020?
Click to expand...
Oh dear. We are going to have another arguement arent we? :)
You know thats wrong. It has not been instructed that if anyone has pneumonia its to be written as underlying covid. You know that covid wont be listed on a death cert in australia unless its confirmed or probable. In Australia, I would argue that in the vast majority of cases we would only write Covid as an antecedent if it was actually confirmed. Indeed of the 920 covid ABS recorded deaths, 904 were confirmed covid cases. 16 were suspected cases.
"A death directly due to COVID-19 is defined by the WHO as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case"
Where does it actually state "WHO and ABS instruct if pneumonia present, COVID -19 is to be written as the underlying COD" without an actual reference to either covid confirmed or covid probable? Are you really saying that if "pneumonia" is written as a cause of death its coded as covid even if covid isnt mentioned on the death cert??
Are you saying that the death cert I did 4 weeks ago where I wrote "pneumonia" it will coded as covid, despite me not writing covid anywhere on the death cert?
 

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"B.1.1.529 has a very unusual constellation of mutations, which are worrying because they could help it evade the body’s immune response and make it more transmissible, scientists have said. Any new variant that is able to evade vaccines or spread faster than the now-dominant Delta variant might pose a significant threat as the world emerges from the pandemic"
www.theguardian.com

What do we know about the new ‘worst ever’ Covid variant?

UK places South Africa on red travel list over B.1.1.529 variant picked up by scientists in country
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
BlueE said:
AZ and J & J are both genetic vaccines that also "instruct the cells’ machinery to produce what is called a spike protein." AZ is not approved and J&J not widely used in the US. If they were they could have found similar results.

Abstract 10712: Observational Findings of PULS Cardiac Test Findings for Inflammatory Markers in Patients Receiving mRNA Vaccines

This clinic has been using the PULS Cardiac Test (Predictive Health Diagnostics Co., Irvine, CA) a clinically utilized measurement of multiple protein biomarkers, which generates a score predicting t
www.ahajournals.org
Click to expand...
He's British though, not American?
 
Profop said:
I cling to hope that anti vaxxers consistently getting schooled on their rubbish may be helping those unsure see how wrong the anti vaccination talking points are.

I guess if even one hesitant person is swung back to science then the thread is worthwhile.
Click to expand...

This is the main reason it's even worth engaging with the true nuff nuffs. Not that you'll ever change their perspective, but that someone else who might be a little more open minded might be able to see how nonsensical the stuff they post is.
 
BlueE said:
You are the coroner?? You agreed with me about COD, so DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THE MEDICINE??

I've already posted the link a couple of times for the 30 year old, ONCE IN THIS THREAD, that had an autopsy that changed her COD from what the officials said was COVID-19, to pneumonia.

Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Pneumonia, or other respiratory conditions if present are instructed to be contributing, but not the main cause of death. This is not true, and is outlined in the information you have posted yourself and in the clarifications you've had directed to you. Covid is never listed as the cause of...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com

Shattered family of Australia's youngest Covid victim, 30, reveal the REAL cause of her death - as they threaten to SUE over the tragedy
  • Family of youngest woman is NSW to die with Covid reveal the coroner's findings
  • Ianeta Isaako, 30, collapsed in her home shortly after contracting coronavirus
  • The young mother's official cause of death was found to be pneumonia

www.dailymail.co.uk

Family of Australia's youngest Covid victim reveal REAL cause of death

Ianeta Isaako's family have revealed her official cause of death after the mum-of-three was reported to be NSW's youngest female Covid victim at just 30 years old.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

www.news.com.au

Sydney’s 30yo covid-19 victim identified

A 30-year-old mother of three has died at home in Sydney’s west after being diagnosed with Covid-19.
www.news.com.au www.news.com.au
Click to expand...
You realize in the last link it says "Earlier on Tuesday, NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant said authorities were aware of the media reports but were unable to determine the cause of her death" and "Her death has been referred to the coroner"?
So they did exactly what they should have done when the cause of death wasnt entirely obvious and referred the matter to the coroners office.
 
kingswood71 said:
You realize in the last link it says "Earlier on Tuesday, NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant said authorities were aware of the media reports but were unable to determine the cause of her death" and "Her death has been referred to the coroner"?
So they did exactly what they should have done when the cause of death wasnt entirely obvious and referred the matter to the coroners office.
Click to expand...
Add to this that the Cause of Death has not been stated as Pneumonia due to something other than covid.
 
kingswood71 said:
You realize in the last link it says "Earlier on Tuesday, NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant said authorities were aware of the media reports but were unable to determine the cause of her death" and "Her death has been referred to the coroner"?
So they did exactly what they should have done when the cause of death wasnt entirely obvious and referred the matter to the coroners office.
Click to expand...

Just put it on ignore mate, you are wasting your time trying to explain anything to this poster.
 
kingswood71 said:
"B.1.1.529 has a very unusual constellation of mutations, which are worrying because they could help it evade the body’s immune response and make it more transmissible, scientists have said. Any new variant that is able to evade vaccines or spread faster than the now-dominant Delta variant might pose a significant threat as the world emerges from the pandemic"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-know- about-the-new-worst-ever-covid-variant
Click to expand...
Bloody hell stop flights now introduce strict quarantine for all international flights
England have already declared Sough Africa’s code red
If Scomo drops the ball on this one we are stuffed this has the potential to be the worst variant by far
What’s the worst that happens a couple of thousand international travellers are put out false alarm back to normal
Or the entire economy comes to stop 10s if not 100s of thousands of deaths
I’ll be pissed of we don’t act today or tomorrow
 
Roby said:
You just ignored everythign I just said. I''l just repeat in point form.

- you don't need a autopsy to know what the infection was, blood test is fine and would've been done when she was alive
- no inqest was made which leads me to believe that the coroner found that Covid was the COD

I love how you are "teaching" me the difference between bacterial and viral pneumonia. Hilarious. Any more info on those "genetic" vaccines?
Click to expand...
Your posts are rubbish, including saying you were the coroner!

The authorities said she died from COVID-19 but she didn't, as the coroners said. If you are claiming the family is lying or you have the coroners report then produce it.

I'm not talking about he difference between viral and bacterial pneumonia, as you should know.
 
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