Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

Nothing to do with a sword.
They organised a fight and took whatever they had. Golf clubs, baseball bats, poles....
Just your run of the mill power struggle in the local Sikh community.

I'm not making any judgements. I find it quite hilarious how they had a knife fight to settle who would be in charge of promoting the Sikh way in the community.

Ok, i am just talking about their doctrine.

 

[Pessimistic]

Just wondering if any Christians in here are suffering discrimination (other than bigfooty trolling) enough to warrant scotty's bill?

 

[Pessimistic]

Could Sikhs carry a miniature version of the Kirpan like Christians do with a cross? - they dont lug a fill sized one around any more

 

[Seeds]

Just wondering if any Christians in here are suffering discrimination (other than bigfooty trolling) enough to warrant scotty's bill?

The bill isnt about discirmination against christians. Its about enabling christians to discriminate against others.

admittedly i think some things in the bill are fine. If a religious person believes gay people are going to hell he should be free to say that. Apparently you cant at the moment which is ridiculous. If belief in imaginanary hell is ok then belief on who qualifies for imaginery hell should also be ok.

the way to end this ridiculousness ofcourse is just ban religion. Which is what i did.

 

[Saint]

Good Christians of the world....

 

[Saint]

The bill isnt about discirmination against christians. Its about enabling christians to discriminate against others.

admittedly i think some things in the bill are fine. If a religious person believes gay people are going to hell he should be free to say that. Apparently you cant at the moment which is ridiculous. If belief in imaginanary hell is ok then belief on who qualifies for imaginery hell should also be ok.

the way to end this ridiculousness ofcourse is just ban religion. Which is what i did.

I don't reckon you should be able to say that at work, though. I don't think I can say "most CHristians are a'holes" at work and get away with it.

 

[Gethelred]

The bill isnt about discirmination against christians. Its about enabling christians to discriminate against others.

admittedly i think some things in the bill are fine. If a religious person believes gay people are going to hell he should be free to say that. Apparently you cant at the moment which is ridiculous. If belief in imaginanary hell is ok then belief on who qualifies for imaginery hell should also be ok.

the way to end this ridiculousness ofcourse is just ban religion. Which is what i did.

I have a question, but not for a christian.

When you wrote this, were you drunk?

 

[travelli]

Can you please outline in some detail, what you mean by “the divine”, what is it, what characteristics does it display, etc,?
Cheers

The Creator, the conscious universe, an animating spirit that binds us together. That's my definition & it might sound flakey, but our understanding is limited. Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church is vague:

39 In defending the ability of human reason to know God, the Church is expressing her confidence in the possibility of speaking about him to all men and with all men, and therefore of dialogue with other religions, with philosophy and science, as well as with unbelievers and atheists.

40 Since our knowledge of God is limited, our language about him is equally so. We can name God only by taking creatures as our starting point, and in accordance with our limited human ways of knowing and thinking.

41 All creatures bear a certain resemblance to God, most especially man, created in the image and likeness of God. the manifold perfections of creatures - their truth, their goodness, their beauty all reflect the infinite perfection of God. Consequently we can name God by taking his creatures" perfections as our starting point, "for from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding perception of their Creator".15

42 God transcends all creatures. We must therefore continually purify our language of everything in it that is limited, imagebound or imperfect, if we are not to confuse our image of God --"the inexpressible, the incomprehensible, the invisible, the ungraspable"-- with our human representations.16 Our human words always fall short of the mystery of God.

43 Admittedly, in speaking about God like this, our language is using human modes of expression; nevertheless it really does attain to God himself, though unable to express him in his infinite simplicity. Likewise, we must recall that "between Creator and creature no similitude can be expressed without implying an even greater dissimilitude";17 and that "concerning God, we cannot grasp what he is, but only what he is not, and how other beings stand in relation to him."

 

[travelli]

In believing in God (any god), by being a theist, you are just making the choice that all of life & the universe is not some accident of science without cause, value or purpose. You are believe that there is something more behind it, that there is a creator an there is a greater purpose to existence. That just makes more sense to me.

 

[Seeds]

In believing in God (any god), by being a theist, you are just making the choice that all of life & the universe is not some accident of science without cause, value or purpose. You are believe that there is something more behind it, that there is a creator an there is a greater purpose to existence. That just makes more sense to me.

why does that make more sense? Based off what?

And what does purpose to existence even mean?

Have you properly thought this through or does it just feel right because Thats how humans genes have evolved to Make you feel?

 

[Seeds]

I have a question, but not for a christian.

When you wrote this, were you drunk?

Nope. "What i did" was supposed to be "what i would do" though.

 

[Gethelred]

Nope. "What i did" was supposed to be "what i would do" though.

Your posting used to have standards by which your subtle trolling at least approached your 'position' from a vague place of reason. That post was an escalation from start to finish, featured barely any punctuation, and you spent more time hitting enter than you did the space bar.

You used to be better than that, Seeds. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Roylion]

You are believe that there is something more behind it, that there is a creator an there is a greater purpose to existence. That just makes more sense to me.

Why does it make "more sense"? Why does there need to be a "purpose to existence"?

 

[travelli]

why does that make more sense? Based off what?

And what does purpose to existence even mean?

Have you properly thought this through or does it just feel right because Thats how humans genes have evolved to Make you feel?

It makes more sense than the alternative. Which is that life the universe and your good self is just a random combination of matter & energy that for no apparent reason just came together in some pointless accident. Is that likely to you? Not to me, which opens my mind to the possibility of some kind of divine order, which is God.

 

[Roylion]

It makes more sense than the alternative.

Why?

Which is that life the universe and your good self is just a random combination of matter & energy that for no apparent reason just came together in some pointless accident.

What was the purpose of the dinosaurs? Neanderthal man?

Is that likely to you?

Yes. Very likely.

 

[Seeds]

It makes more sense than the alternative. Which is that life the universe and your good self is just a random combination of matter & energy that for no apparent reason just came together in some pointless accident. Is that likely to you? Not to me, which opens my mind to the possibility of some kind of divine order, which is God.

Yes that is very if not certainly likely given everything that has been observed and tested on this planet has found to have a physical explanation. And its just plain logical that the whole universe is a phyiscal plane and nothing more.

As an example. humanity makes perfect sense under the concept of evolution. It makes no sense if humans came from a divine being. Why the hell would a divine being make pain, fear, aging, susceptability to disease and hunger, anxiety and hate. It makes no sense as to why a divine being would create these features for humanity. It makes perfect sense why evolution would.


humans have also evolved the desire to believe in a divine purpose and morality because it helps drive humans to work together and look after each other maximising our prosperity and survival. This is why you feel that a divine being makes sense. Its not that its logical. Its that it feels right. Cos evolution has created this feeling within us all.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It makes more sense than the alternative. Which is that life the universe and your good self is just a random combination of matter & energy that for no apparent reason just came together in some pointless accident. Is that likely to you? Not to me, which opens my mind to the possibility of some kind of divine order, which is God.

But don't you come straight to the end thought of asking, if god made the universe, what made god?

 

[travelli]

Yes that is very if not certainly likely given everything that has been observed and tested on this planet has found to have a physical explanation. And its just plain logical that the whole universe is a phyiscal plane and nothing more.

As an example. humanity makes perfect sense under the concept of evolution. It makes no sense if humans came from a divine being. Why the hell would a divine being make pain, fear, aging, susceptability to disease and hunger, anxiety and hate. It makes no sense as to why a divine being would create these features for humanity. It makes perfect sense why evolution would.


humans have also evolved the desire to believe in a divine purpose and morality because it helps drive humans to work together and look after each other maximising our prosperity and survival. This is why you feel that a divine being makes sense. Its not that its logical. Its that it feels right. Cos evolution has created this feeling within us all.

I've got no problem with that and evolution is not exclusive from belief in God. I particularly like your last few sentences: "This is why you feel that a divine being makes sense. Its not that its logical. Its that it feels right. Cos evolution has created this feeling within us all." I see you are saying that this means that my thinking is flawed, but I see it as an example of when cultures (all cultures) have moved beyond thinking about their base survival, their mind has turned to the possibility of divine. It is a natural way for the human mind to go.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Could Sikhs carry a miniature version of the Kirpan like Christians do with a cross? - they dont lug a fill sized one around any more

Like Austen Tayshus's comedy rave "Isn't it lucky for Christians that Jesus was crucified? So they have that neat-looking cross up there on the wall. I mean, imagine if every church had to have a noose hanging up there, or an electric chair" LOL.

 

[Saint]

If somebody was so intelligent that they could design the whole universe, stars and galaxies, set the rules of energy, nature, then give various levels of consciousness to specific animals on one specific planet, then whispered different rules at different times to various sons and prophets.........then how do I still have these useless male mammalian nipples??

 

[Pessimistic]

I've got no problem with that and evolution is not exclusive from belief in God. I particularly like your last few sentences: "This is why you feel that a divine being makes sense. Its not that its logical. Its that it feels right. Cos evolution has created this feeling within us all." I see you are saying that this means that my thinking is flawed, but I see it as an example of when cultures (all cultures) have moved beyond thinking about their base survival, their mind has turned to the possibility of divine. It is a natural way for the human mind to go.

‘God’ is in the genes. Which we obviously don’t understand fully yet.

where are dreams stored in the genes? We know we all have similarly themed dreams. And a dragon concept is all over the world from early culture

 

[Pessimistic]

It makes more sense than the alternative. Which is that life the universe and your good self is just a random combination of matter & energy that for no apparent reason just came together in some pointless accident. Is that likely to you? Not to me, which opens my mind to the possibility of some kind of divine order, which is God.

so where’s the logic that we need to then ipso facto follow some rules someone says are from said god, and follow certain rituals in order to please such a divinity?

intelligent design proponents link the two all the time - but don’t ‘prove’ the reasoning

I think this shared unconsciousness has caused thinking people allo over the world, through time, put into words this and found the clearest way to communicate it to others has been a god concept, as all the god concepts in religions are similar.

ironically as religions become about power and market share, they denounce (sometimes with extreme violence) all the other similar concepts. Don’t they realise it is their biggest flaw?

we did all evolve in the food chain, after all. Intelligent design?

 

[travelli]

But don't you come straight to the end thought of asking, if god made the universe, what made god?

Well yes. But the standard line is "God always was, and always is, and always will be".

What is your theory? The Big Bang? That's what I go with. Do you have any ideas on the before and after?

 

[E Shed]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[carltonchelsea]

The Creator, the conscious universe, an animating spirit that binds us together. That's my definition & it might sound flakey, but our understanding is limited. Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church is vague:

39 In defending the ability of human reason to know God, the Church is expressing her confidence in the possibility of speaking about him to all men and with all men, and therefore of dialogue with other religions, with philosophy and science, as well as with unbelievers and atheists.

40 Since our knowledge of God is limited, our language about him is equally so. We can name God only by taking creatures as our starting point, and in accordance with our limited human ways of knowing and thinking.

41 All creatures bear a certain resemblance to God, most especially man, created in the image and likeness of God. the manifold perfections of creatures - their truth, their goodness, their beauty all reflect the infinite perfection of God. Consequently we can name God by taking his creatures" perfections as our starting point, "for from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding perception of their Creator".15

42 God transcends all creatures. We must therefore continually purify our language of everything in it that is limited, imagebound or imperfect, if we are not to confuse our image of God --"the inexpressible, the incomprehensible, the invisible, the ungraspable"-- with our human representations.16 Our human words always fall short of the mystery of God.

43 Admittedly, in speaking about God like this, our language is using human modes of expression; nevertheless it really does attain to God himself, though unable to express him in his infinite simplicity. Likewise, we must recall that "between Creator and creature no similitude can be expressed without implying an even greater dissimilitude";17 and that "concerning God, we cannot grasp what he is, but only what he is not, and how other beings stand in relation to him."

Nope, none the wiser, just pointless proselytising.
I asked you 2 very specific questions and all I took from your vague pontifical jabber was, “but our understanding is limited”.
On that point I’d agree that yours definitely is.