Live Event 2021 AFL National Draft discussion thread

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Yardie]

Ward definitely looks taller than 183cm.

View attachment 1288634

Can someone please go down to training this week with a ruler and tape measure.....

And while you're down there check on how tall Reeves is as well. (Might need a stepladder for that one)

 

[Hawk Dork]

Can someone please go down to training this week with a ruler and tape measure.....

And while you're down there check on how tall Reeves is as well. (Might need a stepladder for that one)

or bring a door

 

[Yardie]

Although I did say that we might not take Ward I really like the focus on players with drive. Sammy had it in spades, Hodgey took a few years to for the penny to drop and if wasn't so talented may have been discarded before he had the chance to show his wares.

 

[theiaofseed]

 

[Pessimistic]

Ward definitely looks taller than 183cm.

View attachment 1288634

Some look to have pretty good cores already. Perhaps doing gym work with no footy on?

 

[MasterSamurai]

I reckon there's too much emphasis put on height here, it's more about talent, skill set, footy smarts, knowing when and how to release the ball, strong will and importantly strong core! Ward has shown all this at junior level hence why we weren't the only club willing to take him in the first round! He has a very high football İQ and work ethic matched with his running power . Guys like Hodge, Lewis and Burgoyne were all around the 186 cm mark but were hardly ever beaten at the contest and played like blood thirsty bulls when the time in games called for it. Conor Mac seems similar to Ward in that he knows his way around a footy ground and isn't shy from getting involved. Just need Finn to break into the seniors as a full time mid and we have the makings of an exciting bunch in a couple of years. In the meantime Jaeger Tom Chad and Worpel take the hits and let these young kids to develop until they get 20-30 games into them.

 

[Brishawk]

I reckon there's too much emphasis put on height here, it's more about talent, skill set, footy smarts, knowing when and how to release the ball, strong will and importantly strong core! Ward has shown all this at junior level hence why we weren't the only club willing to take him in the first round! He has a very high football İQ and work ethic matched with his running power . Guys like Hodge, Lewis and Burgoyne were all around the 186 cm mark but were hardly ever beaten at the contest and played like blood thirsty bulls when the time in games called for it. Conor Mac seems similar to Ward in that he knows his way around a footy ground and isn't shy from getting involved. Just need Finn to break into the seniors as a full time mid and we have the makings of an exciting bunch in a couple of years. In the meantime Jaeger Tom Chad and Worpel take the hits and let these young kids to develop until they get 20-30 games into them.

Statistically, 186cm is the best height for a clearance mid. Unless you are a freak at 190cm+ or ~180cm. Bigger bodied (not necessarily giants) players create space for your smaller and faster mids. Always good to have a mix, which it looks like we are putting such a mix together. Got s.Mitchell waiting in the wings too and he could be another who plays off hff and goes through the middle (like butler).

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Statistically, 186cm is the best height for a clearance mid. Unless you are a freak at 190cm+ or ~180cm. Bigger bodied (not necessarily giants) players create space for your smaller and faster mids. Always good to have a mix, which it looks like we are putting such a mix together. Got s.Mitchell waiting in the wings too and he could be another who plays off hff and goes through the middle (like butler).

Disagree, Mitchell's 2018 season was one of the best clearances seasons ever at 8 a game. He's just not close to being that tall either and some of the others like Robert Harvey who had i think the best season with 10+ clearances a game isn't either.

 

[nelk boys]

Disagree, Mitchell's 2018 season was one of the best clearances seasons ever at 8 a game. He's just not close to being that tall either and some of the others like Robert Harvey who had i think the best season with 10+ clearances a game isn't either.

Obviously some short mid's can be great players. No one is saying they cannot be. But the modern prototype mid is around 186. Their's always going to be outliers of this however.

 

[KermitJagger]

Obviously some short mid's can be great players. No one is saying they cannot be. But the modern prototype mid is around 186. Their's always going to be outliers of this however.

Ffs Tom Mitchell is 3 centimetres shorter, he's 6 foot - not a small man - you guys are getting ridiculous with the size thing. Bris is saying someone in that vicinity, 180cm - 190cm is the sweet spot. Too small you're pushed out too easily, too tall and you're at a disadvantage with the ground ball.

 

[Davo-27]

players who were unlucky to not get drafted and could be value if they get a PSS call up, fingers crossed one of these guys trains at the Hawks during pre-season

Morgan Ferres - medium forw - SA - played well in the state series
Josh Browne - balanced mid - WA - played well in the state series
Kade Dittmar - inside mid/sml forward - WA - played well in state series
Charlie Molan - half back - Vic C - played well in state series

others with outside chances:
Cooper Beecken(medium def), Yousef Dib(hbf), Toby Murray(KPF developing).

 

[Brishawk]

Disagree, Mitchell's 2018 season was one of the best clearances seasons ever at 8 a game. He's just not close to being that tall either and some of the others like Robert Harvey who had i think the best season with 10+ clearances a game isn't either.

I assume you are unfamiliar with the term, statistically

 

[Brant]

players who were unlucky to not get drafted and could be value if they get a PSS call up, fingers crossed one of these guys trains at the Hawks during pre-season

Morgan Ferres - medium forw - SA - played well in the state series
Josh Browne - balanced mid - WA - played well in the state series
Kade Dittmar - inside mid/sml forward - WA - played well in state series
Charlie Molan - half back - Vic C - played well in state series

others with outside chances:
Cooper Beecken(medium def), Yousef Dib(hbf), Toby Murray(KPF developing).

I thought Dib was going to Collingwood on some academy clause

 

[nelk boys]

Ffs Tom Mitchell is 3 centimetres shorter, he's 6 foot - not a small man - you guys are getting ridiculous with the size thing. Bris is saying someone in that vicinity, 180cm - 190cm is the sweet spot. Too small you're pushed out too easily, too tall and you're at a disadvantage with the ground ball.

I thought I agreed with Bris. The modern powerful prototype mid is around 186 tho. Think Dangerfield, Fyfe, Martin, Petraca, De Goey, Bontempelli, Steele, Walsh. These guys break open games in a more damaging effect than a Neale, Titch.

Tsatas has this potential and his potential as this explosive taller mid, is arguably why he is ranked higher than the shorter Wardlaw who has more runs to his name.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I assume you are unfamiliar with the term, statistically

Well those two are "statistically" the best of the best ever

 

[Brishawk]

Well those two are "statistically" the best of the best ever

A statistic describes the population, not every single individual in it. And to further my point, in the year to Mitchell won the Brownlow, Dan Howe was running interference to give him space. You can’t run an all small midfield, just as you wouldn’t run an all tall midfield.

186cm mids win the most clearances and have the highest clearance average. There are very few 190cm+ mids but a couple of them are as good at that part of the game as any in history. But most players that height are very poor at winning clearances and don’t play midfield. At 186cm you are tall enough to have reach and control the space but small enough to be effective below your knees and agile. Some players don’t fit that prototype and are still incredibly successful. That doesn’t mean you go out and recruiters 178cm mids just because lachie Neale exists.

 

[Davo-27]

I thought Dib was going to Collingwood on some academy clause

im not sure if they picked him up or not? but if he is available he could be a potential option?

 

[KermitJagger]

Well those two are "statistically" the best of the best ever

Single seasons, also the game changes. Look at career averages and extremely short and tall players are exceptions to the rule. No one is saying they can't be great clearance players, just that they'd be doing it in spite of their lack of size not because of it.

I thought I agreed with Bris. The modern powerful prototype mid is around 186 tho. Think Dangerfield, Fyfe, Martin, Petraca, De Goey, Bontempelli, Steele, Walsh. These guys break open games in a more damaging effect than a Neale, Titch.

Tsatas has this potential and his potential as this explosive taller mid, is arguably why he is ranked higher than the shorter Wardlaw who has more runs to his name.

Yeah but 183cm and 186cm is such a minor difference, height isn't the defining factor with those players. Explosiveness and power are.

 

[killerspud]

Disagree, Mitchell's 2018 season was one of the best clearances seasons ever at 8 a game. He's just not close to being that tall either and some of the others like Robert Harvey who had i think the best season with 10+ clearances a game isn't either.

NOW - here's a thing - just imagine those young guys - Especially Finn Maginness, Josh Ward, Jai Newcombe and Conor McDonald - getting schooled by how to be an inside mid from both Sam Mitchell and Robert Harvey. Dang it, its going to be a good journey I can feel it

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Single seasons, also the game changes. Look at career averages and extremely short and tall players are exceptions to the rule. No one is saying they can't be great clearance players, just that they'd be doing it in spite of their lack of size not because of it.



Yeah but 183cm and 186cm is such a minor difference, height isn't the defining factor with those players. Explosiveness and power are.

I don't think height matters in clearance players, maybe in players like the Bont and their ability in the air to go forward or back both resting and floating to help the team. But pure clearance players is more pure power, smarts and that type of thing.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

NOW - here's a thing - just imagine those young guys - Especially Finn Maginness, Josh Ward, Jai Newcombe and Conor McDonald - getting schooled by how to be an inside mid from both Sam Mitchell and Robert Harvey. Dang it, its going to be a good journey I can feel it

Harvey, Sam, Tom all 3 are some unbelievable mids. Tom had his 2018 season and experience from the broken leg, to go with his ability to find the footy. Sam being one of the best kicks ever (dual footed so much no one knew his pref foot). Harvey was just good as so much and fooken gun.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

A statistic describes the population, not every single individual in it. And to further my point, in the year to Mitchell won the Brownlow, Dan Howe was running interference to give him space. You can’t run an all small midfield, just as you wouldn’t run an all tall midfield.

186cm mids win the most clearances and have the highest clearance average. There are very few 190cm+ mids but a couple of them are as good at that part of the game as any in history. But most players that height are very poor at winning clearances and don’t play midfield. At 186cm you are tall enough to have reach and control the space but small enough to be effective below your knees and agile. Some players don’t fit that prototype and are still incredibly successful. That doesn’t mean you go out and recruiters 178cm mids just because lachie Neale exists.

Yeah you can't do just small or just tall, any good midfield has to have both.

I don't think height matters in clearance players, maybe in players like the Bont and their ability in the air to go forward or back both resting and floating to help the team. But pure clearance players is more pure power, smarts and that type of thing.

Height and overall body weight of big bodied mids also probably helps to create space but Tom can create space (he's not short clearly) but in comparison to 190cm players he can still do the same space making which i don't feel is a height thing is the main thing probably more weight and pure power.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Oh yay we are back to player heights again

 

[CHUBBSS]

Oh yay we are back to player heights again

But darth Vader is tall…

 

[KermitJagger]

I don't think height matters in clearance players, maybe in players like the Bont and their ability in the air to go forward or back both resting and floating to help the team. But pure clearance players is more pure power, smarts and that type of thing.

Height does matter, you can't just say "I don't think" if it flies in the face of what is measurable. That's like saying height doesn't matter as a ruckman because ruck work is mostly about ability to jump and tap, it might be true to some extent but there's an inherent advantage to being 205cm tall over 195cm tall in a ruck contest because it's 10cm less you have to jump than your opponent.

It matters insofar as it translates to power, strength and overall size in positive ways, and how it translates to agility, ground ability and acceleration in negative ways. A taller player is likely to be stronger, more powerful and have a larger frame which benefits their bullocking midfield work, but a player that is too tall will start to have diminished agility, ground ability and acceleration which means that they will have more difficulty in contests. That's why, as Bris was saying, there's a sweet spot between 180 - 190 where the best midfielders reside.