List Mgmt. 2021 Draft Picks part deux: 4/33/75

[Deaneus!]

thanks to Lore as always

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[Crow till I die]

You lost me as soon as you mentioned Callow in reference to Plugger.

Blokes like Harris Andrews would sh*t themselves when Plugger put body on body.

Jack Darling says hi.

not just that, but in this day and age with the defenders zoning off and trying to run off - imagine being the fullback leaving plugger alone - you really would not want that ball to get turned over and he is one out. What would have been something he would have had to work out was how to still be as dominan t with a 3rd man up in the contest - if you had an Alir Alir coming across and jumping and spoiling, it takes away his physical point of difference somewhat

 

[Mutineer]

not just that, but in this day and age with the defenders zoning off and trying to run off - imagine being the fullback leaving plugger alone - you really would not want that ball to get turned over and he is one out. What would have been something he would have had to work out was how to still be as dominan t with a 3rd man up in the contest - if you had an Alir Alir coming across and jumping and spoiling, it takes away his physical point of difference somewhat

Aliir would have been stretchered off after the first time that happened.

 

[Crow till I die]

Aliir would have been stretchered off after the first time that happened.

If Plugger could catch him that is

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It’s kind of true though , AFL isnt for everyone . The kid is probably happy he played a few games and now ready to do other things

not everyone is going to make it or have that desire that is needed , it’s just hard to pick sometimes who has that burn inside them

I get that .....however the Physcological Testing should be uncovering a players motivation

For the cost of drafting a player, for them to be satisfied just making an AFL list ...and depriving a lesser talented player, who is "driven" .....I'm sorry, but this is elite sport, not a rep team at junior level ...the standards and expectations have to be elite

Some players uproot everything, after being delisted, and move states for another opportunity ......good on em .....but most are simply satisfied to say they were on an AFL list.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Nope. Would be in no mans land as a player. If he could take human growth hormones and get to the 199-203 cm height range he'd be dominant with some adaptation to his game, but at 191 cm he wouldn't have the game to play as a third tall seeing how that role preferences the more athletic generalists.

Look at Melbournes struggles with Weidmann, ours with Fogarty, Hawks pretty much abandoned the idea of Callow being a forward the moment he walked into the club as a few recent examples, two using first round picks etc on players who have similar issues where their game really doesn't mesh up with their body at this level (and all don't lack the talent to be high end options 20-30 years ago when their profile was big compared to the league). No one survives/thrives being that old school contested marking forward without being generally on the cutting edge size wise, not without another aspect to fall back on and build their game around.

Really the elite players of yesteryear that wouldn't transition are going to be the ones where the size profile for it has dramatically changed, and they've built around it. Midfielders would be pretty safe bet to transition and be great, providing they're not Libratore sized.

Caan't agree .....most of Locketts and Dunstalls goals came from leads, where height wasn't a factor ....and they were experts at outbodying opponents with their rather large rumps

Weideman struggles because he's Weideman ......he plays exactly as his father played, and he failed at VFL level .....and may I say also at Westies

Schache plays like his father ....looks a million $$$ if you allow him, but ask him to stand up in a bruising encounter
OK now he's a Defensive role player ....not bad for a #1 Draft pick

In summary ....the really smart & talented players compensate for their height ....not depend on it

Brett Burton was a pretty frightening mark for 185cm ....and a bloke called Modra at 188cm, playing the same role as Lockett and Dunstall against much taller and stronger opponents

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If Plugger could catch him that is

Plugger was in fact very very quick .....and smart

 

[ams4crows]

Has "Zone defending" killed off the leading forward? Or are players just dumber or less skilled at putting it out in front of the leading forward.

If you watch Modra highlights his leads are beautiful but he also has someone kicking it to the space his leading into.

 

[Crow till I die]

Plugger was in fact very very quick .....and smart

I remember Lockett kicking something like 11 goals at Waverley park in the hail

My favorite player ever and imo the greatest forward the game has ever seen and in the top few players in the last 50 years at the least

 

[spenze]

Has "Zone defending" killed off the leading forward? Or are players just dumber or less skilled at putting it out in front of the leading forward.

If you watch Modra highlights his leads are beautiful but he also has someone kicking it to the space his leading into.

Bit of A, bit of B. I truly believe the footskills have dropped off since the need for speed was identified. Players like a Dunstall or a Modra could lead to space knowing that a Jarman was going to lace them out with a footy. I firmly believe that neither Jarman would get drafted these days and the game is a bit poorer for it

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Has "Zone defending" killed off the leading forward? Or are players just dumber or less skilled at putting it out in front of the leading forward.

If you watch Modra highlights his leads are beautiful but he also has someone kicking it to the space his leading into.

Yep exactly , there would be intercept markers like Jake Lever dropping into the space in front of him if he played these days

he’d still take the occasional hanger but would be more difficult getting so many on the lead these days

 

[Vader]

Yep exactly , there would be intercept markers like Jake Lever dropping into the space in front of him if he played these days

he’d still take the occasional hanger but would be more difficult getting so many on the lead these days

They'd do it once... but the path would be clear for Lockett's 2nd and subsequent leads. It's hard to be an intercept marker from a hospital bed.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

They'd do it once... but the path would be clear for Lockett's 2nd and subsequent leads. It's hard to be an intercept marker from a hospital bed.

Exactly .....do people think Clubs didn't try everything to stop Dunstall and Lockett ....they would have spent most of selection night trying to get a strategy

We may yet see the great FF come back, if the AFL goes 4 permanently in each fwd 50 ......IMO

Don't forget the "diamond" was introduced to restrict the congestion at centre ruck contest .....hardly a murmur of discontent at the time .....these days everything is viewed negatively & condemned

 

[baldandbroke]

How bizarre is BF getting? So now we are saying the Tony Effing Lockett would struggle in the modern game?

Must be part of getting old ... I suppose Bradman would struggle with the modern day quicks too

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How bizarre is BF getting? So now we are saying the Tony Effing Lockett would struggle in the modern game?

Must be part of getting old ... I suppose Bradman would struggle with the modern day quicks too

It was this bloke ......



Golumless

 

[Vader]

How bizarre is BF getting? So now we are saying the Tony Effing Lockett would struggle in the modern game?

Must be part of getting old ... I suppose Bradman would struggle with the modern day quicks too

One of the Hard Quiz contestants last night had "Don Bradman" as his specialty subject.

At age 70 (in 1978), he played a game of backyard cricket against one of the (then) current Australian fast bowlers. Cricket ball, no pads, no helmet, sending the bowler all around the park. The bowler said it was the greatest 2 hour batting demonstration he'd ever seen.

The bowler's name? Jeff Thomson.

If the Don was capable of doing that at age 70, I doubt he would have had any trouble at all playing against current bowling attacks. Given that he was used to playing on uncovered pitches, I think he would have averaged 150+ playing under today's conditions.

 

[Crow till I die]

One of the Hard Quiz contestants last night had "Don Bradman" as his specialty subject.

At age 70 (in 1978), he played a game of backyard cricket against one of the (then) current Australian fast bowlers. Cricket ball, no pads, no helmet, sending the bowler all around the park. The bowler said it was the greatest 2 hour batting demonstration he'd ever seen.

The bowler's name? Jeff Thomson.

If the Don was capable of doing that at age 70, I doubt he would have had any trouble at all playing against current bowling attacks. Given that he was used to playing on uncovered pitches, I think he would have averaged 150+ playing under today's conditions.

And the English test batsmen used to come out in virtual suits of armour to face Thompson - the most fearsome quick we had in that era

But anyone that learnt that craft using a cricket stump to repeatedly time and hit a ball off a corrugated rainwater tank was always going to be be right up there

Oh and Vader - another thing, Bradman was scoring his runs on unsealed wickets. With the pitches they put up today, he may never have got out

 

[Vader]

And the English test batsmen used to come out in virtual suits of armour to face Thompson - the most fearsome quick we had in that era

But anyone that learnt that craft using a cricket stump to repeatedly time and hit a ball off a corrugated rainwater tank was always going to be be right up there

Oh and Vader - another thing, Bradman was scoring his runs on unsealed wickets. With the pitches they put up today, he may never have got out

Hence my last comment:

Given that he was used to playing on uncovered pitches, I think he would have averaged 150+ playing under today's conditions.

 

[Mutineer]

If Plugger could catch him that is

Plugger wasn't slow.

 

[Crow till I die]

Plugger wasn't slow.

no but Alir Alir is an absolute athlete...and Plugger was a short distance burst leading player

 

[Mutineer]

Yep exactly , there would be intercept markers like Jake Lever dropping into the space in front of him if he played these days

he’d still take the occasional hanger but would be more difficult getting so many on the lead these days

Jakey Boi would want to make sure his health benefit fund was fully paid up before he did that.

 

[Crow till I die]

Jakey Boi would want to make sure his health benefit fund was fully paid up before he did that.

If I was trying to coach to limit a Lockett in todays game, I would have my biggest and strongest defender on him to try and keep body contact and prevent him from getting out in the clear, that way the 3rd man interceptor can come in over the top...if he leads he will get the ball if delivery is good - no player could stop him. If you play one out and cant get intercept help, Lockett will beat you 95 times out of 100 in strength

 

[GrommoT]

no but Alir Alir is an absolute athlete...and Plugger was a short distance burst leading player

How would Alir intercept a Laird special if Plugger was around though?

 

[Crow till I die]

How would Alir intercept a Laird special if Plugger was around though?

hang out near the boundary line and wait for the ball to come out from the clouds and start dropping...time the run just right from 40 metres away and jump as high as gods gift to him in athleticism will allow to spoil the ball...oh, and hope Buttsy had a good night sleep the night before and has a full tank of energy to try and wrestle the big man first

 

[Mutineer]

If I was trying to coach to limit a Lockett in todays game, I would have my biggest and strongest defender on him to try and keep body contact and prevent him from getting out in the clear, that way the 3rd man interceptor can come in over the top...if he leads he will get the ball if delivery is good - no player could stop him. If you play one out and cant get intercept help, Lockett will beat you 95 times out of 100 in strength

All that and more was tried on Lockett, Dunstall and Gaz Sr by some very crafty coaches that would put most of the modern day coaches in the shade....it rarely worked. They were out and out Champions

 

[70lethal]

All that and more was tried on Lockett, Dunstall and Gaz Sr by some very crafty coaches that would put most of the modern day coaches in the shade....it rarely worked. They were out and out Champions

Defenders would be trying to hang onto jumpers, SOS would almost be like a jockey riding them.
Rocket Maynard held Pluggers jumper for 10 seconds before being told if he did it again it would be goodnight.
Such a different era.