Society/Culture Kyle Rittenhouse

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Gough said:
If a kid can get off a murder charge claiming self defence but a women can't get a basic medical procedure without being labelled a criminal, do you not think there might be an issue or two with the legal system over there?
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I don't think this is the comparison you think it is. The underlying principle of self defence and banning abortion is about protecting life. That you don't like the way those principles are implemented in law is not a slam dunk argument about hypocrisy.
 
Gough said:
Looks like the Supreme Court is going to mess with Roe v Wade. There's something deeply f***ed up about a country that protects someone like Rittenhouse but criminalises women having a medical procedure that might save their life.
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Link to details on new abortion laws please.
 

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ShanDog said:
I don't think this is the comparison you think it is. The underlying principle of self defence and banning abortion is about protecting life. That you don't like the way those principles are implemented in law is not a slam dunk argument about hypocrisy.
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I think a society that criminalises abortion but allows someone to kill another in the name of self defence is very sick indeed.
 
Gough said:
Do you think the MAGA crowd and the hard core anti abortionists really care about protecting the mother or the unborn?
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Not sure what you mean by mother, but regardless, I wouldn't pretend to know the thoughts of millions of people. Still, I'd bet every last cent I had that many of them do care about the unborn. Not sure how you could say otherwise, as that's basically asserting that anti-abortion people simply want to control women, which would again be pretending to know the secret inner thought of literally millions of people. It's textbook ideological bias.
 
ShanDog said:
Not sure what you mean by mother, but regardless, I wouldn't pretend to know the thoughts of millions of people. Still, I'd bet every last cent I had that many of them do care about the unborn. Not sure how you could say otherwise, as that's basically asserting that anti-abortion people simply want to control women, which would again be pretending to know the secret inner thought of literally millions of people. It's textbook ideological bias.
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I'd argue taking that crowd's argument in good faith is your first mistake.
 
ShanDog said:
Do you apply that rule equally to all across all political leanings, or just the ones you don't like?
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I apply it were I think due and when it comes to anti abortionists I suspect their arguments have very little to with concern for the health of mother or baby and more to do with misogyny and the desire to control women. You can believe them if you want to but I think you're being pretty naive here.
 
Gough said:
I apply it were I think due and when it comes to anti abortionists I suspect their arguments have very little to with concern for the health of mother or baby and more to do with misogyny and the desire to control women. You can believe them if you want to but I think you're being pretty naive here.
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You're just explicitly admitting a cognitive bias here, and treating literally millions of people as a monolith with the same (ostensibly) hidden agenda. It's no different to the thought process of a conspiracy nutter. "I know what's really the case behind all that so-called explanation and reasoning - they just want to control half the world!"

There's no naivety on my behalf at all - I've no doubt some people of that ilk are just as you describe. But to suggest all are (or enough to write them all off with a handwave) is just utter nonsense, and a product of your ideological blinkers. Pardon the bluntness, but I find it totally ridiculous.
 
Gough said:
I think a society that criminalises abortion but allows someone to kill another in the name of self defence is very sick indeed.
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I think gun control is the issue, I am fine with the self defence part. I am not sure the yanks will ever sort that one out.
 
I'm just basing my opinion on observation of the conservative Christian movement in America who are driving this and I may be wrong about some of them but their opposition to abortion when you look at some their positions on other issues, the death penalty for example should strike you as slightly incongruous. Right to life in their world seems to have a fairly significant caveat.
 

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Gough said:
I'm just basing my opinion on observation of the conservative Christian movement in America who are driving this and I may be wrong about some of them but their opposition to abortion when you look at some their positions on other issues, the death penalty for example should strike you as slightly incongruous. Right to life in their world seems to have a fairly significant caveat.
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It’s also not very ‘small government’

I have personal concerns with late term abortion in certain circumstances but I don’t really want to government to have the power to prevent that.
 
On one hand, I don't especially feel the need others seem to as far as ideological consistency is concerned. Rittenhouse, under another status quo, would absolutely be spending time behind bars; you, as a citizen, shouldn't be taking a gun into that scenario. The police also shouldn't need to fear protesters having guns, either.

On the other hand, I think it's rather interesting that since the headline 'Rittenhouse supports BLM', the culture war interest in this case has waned more than slightly from both sides.
 
Gethelred said:
On one hand, I don't especially feel the need others seem to as far as ideological consistency is concerned. Rittenhouse, under another status quo, would absolutely be spending time behind bars; you, as a citizen, shouldn't be taking a gun into that scenario. The police also shouldn't need to fear protesters having guns, either.

On the other hand, I think it's rather interesting that since the headline 'Rittenhouse supports BLM', the culture war interest in this case has waned more than slightly from both sides.
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To an extent, but what is there left to discuss?

His inevitable Republican national tour which is already shaping up?
www.google.com

Kyle Rittenhouse Confirmed As Guest Speaker for Turning Point 'AmericaFest'

The 18-year-old is continuing to embrace his post-trial fame with an appearance at the conservative group's four-day event in Phoenix this month.
www.google.com www.google.com

That the ******* Andrew Laming staffer who made that racist Young LNP Schoolies video a few years back thought it was a funny idea to dress up as Rittenhouse for Halloween?

Andrew Laming staffer dresses as Kyle Rittenhouse for delayed Halloween party | Australian politics | The Guardian

Electorate officer Barclay McGain said those who took offence to the costume ‘need to learn to respect the rule of law’
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

I think Rittenhouse's defenders would prfer to move on, because the narrative that this case was only political on one side is predictably proving to be a crock of s**t.
 
Soft Downhill Skier said:
fu** me sideways.




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https://theintercept.com/2021/10/16/daniel-baker-anarchist-capitol-riot/

ON TUESDAY, a Florida judge sentenced Daniel Baker, an anti-fascist activist, to 44 months in federal prison for social media posts that called for armed defense against possible far-right attacks on the state’s Capitol in the wake of the January 6 riots. Baker, a 34-year-old yoga teacher and emergency medical technician trainee, had no previous criminal convictions and has already been held for 10 months of harsh pretrial detention, including seven months in solitary confinement. He never brought a weapon near a government building; he amassed no armed anti-fascist forces; he made no threats on a single individual.​
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Baker will, nonetheless, face considerably more prison time than most January 6 defendants, including those who crossed state lines, small arsenals in tow, with the aim of overturning a presidential election.​



During his sentencing hearing on Tuesday, Baker’s attorney highlighted the case of a Georgia man who drove to Washington, D.C., with guns and ammunition and sent private texts threatening to shoot Rep. Nancy Pelosi in the head. The Trump acolyte had missed the storming of the Capitol by one day due to car trouble. Like Baker, he was charged with the interstate communication of threats. Unlike Baker, he had a history of hideous, racist online speech, and direct threats. And unlike Baker, he could leave prison soon: He will be sentenced in December and faces between six months to two years in prison; his eight months of pretrial detention will count as time served. Taking into account time served, meanwhile, Baker will spend another 34 months — almost three years — in prison.​
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Baker, slight and sinewy at 5 foot 8, lived in Tallahassee at the time of his arrest — just over one week after January 6. Federal agents raided his apartment with guns drawn and a flashbang grenade.​
 
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