Society/Culture When is racism really racism?

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Go on then.

Dispute them.

Or are you just saying you dispute them even though you can't/don't?

It's a Murdoch publication. We all know their agenda, why even bother reading it.
Go find the story in a reputable news source. They lost their right to be called real news anyway, wikipedia banned them because they make stuff up.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

It's a Murdoch publication. We all know their agenda, why even bother reading it.

That's great. But you said you dispute all the "facts".

So are you going to actually do that? Or is it just something you say because you think it makes you sound like you know things?

Go find the story in a reputable news source.

Sure. That story has been quite widely reported. Let me know what facts you think the Daily Mail got wrong.

They lost their right to be called real news anyway

By who? You? As if you know the difference.

Just tell me what they got wrong factually about that story and I'll take your point.

If you can't do that, what specifically is your complaint?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Is it "the bottom line"? Can you demonstrate any of this?

You want to sit in judgement of people. That's your impulse. And the allegations of racism are merely the vehicle for you to scratch that itch.

Where is the liberal impulse in any of this? Do you have evidence for your claims?

She's a racist , why are you so outraged at a white women being called a racist. They do exist you know.
You've got zero respect for the black man. You had a go at him for filming it.
I expect you thought Adam Goodes should of shut up.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

That's great. But you said you dispute all the "facts".

So are you going to actually do that? Or is it just something you say because you think it makes you sound like you know things?

Sure. That story has been quite widely reported. Let me know what facts you think the Daily Mail got wrong.

By who? You? As if you know the difference.

Just tell me what they got wrong factually about that story and I'll take your point.

If you can't do that, what specifically is your complaint?

By Wikipedia. I'm going to sleep bye.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

She's a racist , why are you so outraged at a white women being called a racist. They do exist you know.

Can you demonstrate this?

Who's outraged? You're the one cheering her losing her job, based on not much. You must be very emotional about it all.

You've got zero respect for the black man. You had a go at him for filming it.

I think he's fine to film it. But to then use his social media profile to pursue a tenuous claim of racism to force someone out of their job, yes, I think that's unethical.

I expect you thought Adam Goodes should of shut up.

A particularly stupid strawman, even by your standards.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

By Wikipedia. I'm going to sleep bye.

There's nothing liberal about your impulses.

 

[Lethality]

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Ok thanks for the tip mate.

Back for another spanking?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Back for another spanking?

Don't go obsessive compulsive on me. Time to move on.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Don't go obsessive compulsive on me. Time to move on.

Let me know when you want another.

 

[Pie eyed]

I'm not convinced she deserved to lose her job on the basis of what's been reported and I'm not convinced the fellow who used his social media profile to chastise her behaved ethically.

Why should "you" be convinced?
Where do you fit in the events which happened?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Why should "you" be convinced?
Where do you fit in the events which happened?

I'm expressing my opinion about the events, as they've been reported.

Are you confused about that?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

John McWhorter On Woke Racism

<p>For anyone who follows online debates over race in America, John needs little introduction. The Columbia linguist just wrote a bracing tract, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B/ref=sr_1_1">Woke Racism</a>, against the new elite religion...

player.fm

 

[ferball]

Have you seen seen footage of that?

Even then, that's not explicitly racist. There is some implied racism but it could indeed be a case of a white girl adopting the parlance of referring to her neighbourhood as her "hood", without considering that there's any particular racial stigma attached to the phrase.

Even then, that's a very tenuous basis to conclude "she is a filthy racist ... she doesn't deserve a job".

There's nothing liberal about that impulse.

You would have been first in line to sit on a jury for a witch trial 400 years ago.

Wow you're still an idiot.

She is obviously racist. She is demanding that couple leave where they are and return to what she considers their designated area and it seems the only reason she is doing this is because of those peoples ethnic background.

Their is no footage of her making those demands but a seemingly independent witness verifies the couples claim on video and makes the effort to state it unequivocally.

Anyway you never got round to answering this, you ran away for a month when I asked it:

But if Western civilisation is fundamentally racist then surely all its achievements are expressions of that fundamental racism?

Before we go any further...

Why?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Wow you're still an idiot.

She is obviously racist. She is demanding that couple leave where they are and return to what she considers their designated area and it seems the only reason she is doing this is because of those peoples ethnic background.

Their is no footage of her making those demands but a seemingly independent witness verifies the couples claim on video and makes the effort to state it unequivocally.

Let's assume she said that. Even then, it is not clear that it's explicitly racist. Calling a neighbourhood a "hood" is nowhere near vilification. People use that parlance often enough for it to not be automatically considered a racial slur. Also, my understanding is that she mistook them for the owners of an aggressive dog who was not familiar to other folks at a neighbourhood park, which would explain her asking them to leave. I don't think we can immediately conclude that "the only reason she is doing this is because of those people's ethnic background". That's your supposition. It's not at all clear from the evidence I've seen. You just assume racism without much basis. Because that's your fetish.

I certainly don't think someone deserves to be the subject of an online witch hunt and then be fired from their job for saying that.

Also, you're clearly still bruised from having your arse handed to you previously.

Anyway you never got round to answering this, you ran away for a month when I asked it:

Don't kid yourself. You embarrassed yourself in that exchange. I simply tired of your soft-headed woke rubbish. You've just downloaded a bunch of ridiculous talking points about "fundamental racism" and then regurgitated them. And you think that's clever? It's inane.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Pretty sure this isn't actually racism despite "investigations"...

Police investigating after Palace fans display banner at Newcastle match

Police are carrying out enquiries into a banner unveiled by Crystal Palace fans before Saturday’s 1-1 draw with Newcastle

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Gary Ballance admits being a player who used racial slur against Azeem Rafiq

Gary Ballance has admitted using racist and offensive language to his Yorkshire teammate Azeem Rafiq in a controversy that has engulfed the cricket club and the sport

www.theguardian.com

To be clear, the P-word is absolutely taboo in the UK. I know in Australia a lot of folks would dispute that because we'd just casually use it as a shortened version of "the Pakistanis". It's certainly more polite than how we talk about the sheep-rooters.

That aside, it is freighted with racial animus in the UK and not considered fair game.

Even so, I'm intrigued by Gary Ballance's defence, and I wonder if he has a case. I don't think I've seen anyone go with this line that it was basically coarse banter between best mates and he had no idea Azeem Rafiq was offended. I doubt it will fly but who hasn't said "offensive" things or told off-colour jokes to a friend that would sound awful if they became a matter of public record? I guess the counterpoint would be that this was not just two mates, but a workplace, where different standards apply.

That said, he sounds sincere, leading me to accept that he probably did not intend to villify or truly offend. That doesn't get him off the hook but I think it removes him from the worst category of racial abuse.

Ballance went on: “To be clear – I deeply regret some of the language I used in my younger years. The independent enquiry, having heard all of the evidence, accepted that the context of some of the language used was in a ‘friendly verbal attack’ between friends which was not intended to offend or hurt and that no malice was intended. Given my incredibly close relationship with Rafa over the years I am saddened that it has come to this.”

Ballance said he had developed a close bond with Raffiq when they joined Yorkshire around the same time. “Because we were such good friends and spent a lot of time together drinking and on nights out we both said things privately to each other which were not acceptable. It has been reported that I used a racial slur and, as I told the independent enquiry, I accept that I did so and I regret doing so. I do not wish to discredit Rafa by repeating the words and statements that he made about me and others but I have to be clear that this was a situation where best friends said offensive things to each other which, outside of that context, would be considered wholly inappropriate.

“I regret that these exchanges took place but at no time did I believe or understand that it had caused Rafa distress. If I had believed that then I would have stopped immediately. He was my best mate in cricket and I cared deeply for him.”

 

[scoman]

Star calls out Basketball Australia’s ‘racist’ act

Melbourne Boomers star Tiffany Mitchell has called out Basketball Australia, saying they discriminated against her by asking her to tie back her braids under a rule that no longer exists in world basketball.

www.news.com.au

What say we about this situation.

Quick summary:

Star US basketballer has called out Basketball Australia for clear racism after they pressured her and others to tie back their braids. A FIBA rule was used as justification, however it soon came to light that it was no longer a rule after some pressure and backlash from the player and her team.

Is this really racism? The argument is that braids are almost entirely specific to black athletes and is therefore targeted discrimination. However aren't all athletes required to tie back long hair? Or is that just a personal choice out of practicality?

 

[FRUMPY]

Star calls out Basketball Australia’s ‘racist’ act

Melbourne Boomers star Tiffany Mitchell has called out Basketball Australia, saying they discriminated against her by asking her to tie back her braids under a rule that no longer exists in world basketball.

www.news.com.au

What say we about this situation.

Quick summary:

Star US basketballer has called out Basketball Australia for clear racism after they pressured her and others to tie back their braids. A FIBA rule was used as justification, however it soon came to light that it was no longer a rule after some pressure and backlash from the player and her team.

Is this really racism? The argument is that braids are almost entirely specific to black athletes and is therefore targeted discrimination. However aren't all athletes required to tie back long hair? Or is that just a personal choice out of practicality?

its not a racist rule but cry racism and you get what you want - classic move.

 

[CM86]

Star calls out Basketball Australia’s ‘racist’ act

Melbourne Boomers star Tiffany Mitchell has called out Basketball Australia, saying they discriminated against her by asking her to tie back her braids under a rule that no longer exists in world basketball.

www.news.com.au

What say we about this situation.

Quick summary:

Star US basketballer has called out Basketball Australia for clear racism after they pressured her and others to tie back their braids. A FIBA rule was used as justification, however it soon came to light that it was no longer a rule after some pressure and backlash from the player and her team.

Is this really racism? The argument is that braids are almost entirely specific to black athletes and is therefore targeted discrimination. However aren't all athletes required to tie back long hair? Or is that just a personal choice out of practicality?

It would seem that Tiffany Mitchell, Basketball Australia and the WNBL (who we can all agree would have a much more in-depth understanding of the situation than a casual observer), believe that it is discriminatory and inconsistent. Maybe there's more to it than just the Instagram post, and the news.com article.




“The policy has been deemed discriminatory and inconsistent with Basketball Australia’s Diversity and Inclusion framework by the WNBL Commission,” the statement read.

“It is also not enforced in either the WNBL, other leading professional women’s leagues around the world or international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup.

“To this end, the WNBL Commission has removed the policy, effective immediately.

“Basketball Australia makes an unreserved apology for any anguish and pain that was caused by this rule.”



Of course, it could be unfairly argued that due to the 'overwhelming power and influence' that minorities possess... Basketball Australia and the WNBL have been forced take this position.
Or that it's a safety issue.
Or that we know more about what's going on, and it's the woke/PC/BLM/whatever, that are the real problem.

 

[CM86]

its not a racist rule but cry racism and you get what you want - classic move.

That's a disappointing take.
But it's probably a far-too common one.

 

[CM86]

Not specific to you, FRUMPY, but in general.

Yes, undoubtedly some things are incorrectly attributed to racism. And it should be corrected when it happens.

But there is a lot of racism that is deliberately or ignorantly overlooked.
There is still systemic racism, that's being argued to be maintained.

So why do have such reverence about possible incorrect accusations, while giving so little to no thought or debate on correct accusations?

To imply that the concern of false accusations delegitimise all the true accusations, while ignoring/minimising all the true accusations (or outright denying them), is dishonest at best.

 

[scoman]

It would seem that Tiffany Mitchell, Basketball Australia and the WNBL (who we can all agree would have a much more in-depth understanding of the situation than a casual observer), believe that it is discriminatory and inconsistent. Maybe there's more to it than just the Instagram post, and the news.com article.




“The policy has been deemed discriminatory and inconsistent with Basketball Australia’s Diversity and Inclusion framework by the WNBL Commission,” the statement read.

“It is also not enforced in either the WNBL, other leading professional women’s leagues around the world or international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup.

“To this end, the WNBL Commission has removed the policy, effective immediately.

“Basketball Australia makes an unreserved apology for any anguish and pain that was caused by this rule.”



Of course, it could be unfairly argued that due to the 'overwhelming power and influence' that minorities possess... Basketball Australia and the WNBL have been forced take this position.
Or that it's a safety issue.
Or that we know more about what's going on, and it's the woke/PC/BLM/whatever, that are the real problem.

It would seem that Tiffany Mitchell, Basketball Australia and the WNBL (who we can all agree would have a much more in-depth understanding of the situation than a casual observer), believe that it is discriminatory and inconsistent. Maybe there's more to it than just the Instagram post, and the news.com article.




“The policy has been deemed discriminatory and inconsistent with Basketball Australia’s Diversity and Inclusion framework by the WNBL Commission,” the statement read.

“It is also not enforced in either the WNBL, other leading professional women’s leagues around the world or international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup.

“To this end, the WNBL Commission has removed the policy, effective immediately.

“Basketball Australia makes an unreserved apology for any anguish and pain that was caused by this rule.”



Of course, it could be unfairly argued that due to the 'overwhelming power and influence' that minorities possess... Basketball Australia and the WNBL have been forced take this position.
Or that it's a safety issue.
Or that we know more about what's going on, and it's the woke/PC/BLM/whatever, that are the real problem.

I'm aware of what was said by both parties.

I would like to know if a rule exists for all women/ men to tie back long hair or if they normally do out of practicality. My initial searches (fairly minimal tbf) didn't pick anything up, apart from an abundance of suggested hairstyles and headbands. If no rule exists than I would agree that it can be seen as unfair to target braids. I can see the reasoning behind the rule though as braids would be heavier, more likely to cause injury.

Can someone confirm if hair is required to be tied back generally?

 

[CM86]

I'm aware of what was said by both parties.

I would like to know if a rule exists for all women/ men to tie back long hair or if they normally do out of practicality. My initial searches (fairly minimal tbf) didn't pick anything up, apart from an abundance of suggested hairstyles and headbands. If no rule exists than I would agree that it can be seen as unfair to target braids. I can see the reasoning behind the rule though as braids would be heavier, more likely to cause injury.

Can someone confirm if hair is required to be tied back generally?

“It is also not enforced in either the WNBL, other leading professional women’s leagues around the world or international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup.

 

[scoman]

That doesn't answer my question. My question is are players generally required to tie back long hair? The rule that wasn't being enforced was braid specific I think.