Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2021/2022

[Down at K Park]

Do you feel they set out to cheat ..or did they set out to push the line on what was acceptable? I honestly do not know.

The secrecy they implemented would indicate they did not want what they were doing public information...just how much of that was deceit and how much was securing IP.

It was not ideal to have an anthem ..of 'what ever it takes'.

The way it was hidden, indicates to me they knew it was dodgy as hell. Even if the substances may or may not have been illegal. Hiding it all showed guilt.

 

[cats_09]

Wasnt that a concern with Franklin... ?

The strikes are kept private aren't they , and the question of self reporting to avoid declaration of the 3rd strike was another concern.

I guess id ask at what point should information be made public. Is the public entitled to know everything about players.... the flip side is we do not what to see tuck situations.


Drugs are a difficult subject. My daughter told me about New Zealand who have just introduced rules for cigarettes or tobacco .... for anyone born after 2008. Good luck with that one sporting organisations.

Yeah, the strikes are generally private unless a situation where the player has been caught in a public situation
- Tom Liberatore after his night out a decade ago; public intoxication & illicit substances on him
- Stokes being caught with illicit substances & charged by police

But players who test positive without the public attention won't necessarily get their strike known publically. And the self reporting thing is a joke - go out on a bender after the match, self report the next day that it was a mistake & all good... Rinse & repeat the next week

And think you're correct in regards to Franklin & rumours around some of his missed periods of play; probably a few others also

 

[Turbocat]

The way it was hidden, indicates to me they knew it was dodgy as hell. Even if the substances may or may not have been illegal. Hiding it all showed guilt.

Maybe ..but clubs like private training sessions, they keep information on plans and methods as tight to their chest as possible. It was all about gaining an an advantage..no doubt. Did they set out to cheat. Often the line becomes blurred

 

[Turbocat]

Yeah, the strikes are generally private unless a situation where the player has been caught in a public situation
- Tom Liberatore after his night out a decade ago; public intoxication & illicit substances on him
- Stokes being caught with illicit substances & charged by police

But players who test positive without the public attention won't necessarily get their strike known publically. And the self reporting thing is a joke - go out on a bender after the match, self report the next day that it was a mistake & all good... Rinse & repeat the next week

And think you're correct in regards to Franklin & rumours around some of his missed periods of play; probably a few others also

The whole concept moves into the publics right to know... and what is the purpose of the system. One if the biggest flaws I feel was calling them strikes, as if the player was doing something that had triggered punishment. If we called it staged assistance.. low, medium and high level assistance ... or like traffic lights.. green assistance, amber assistance and finally red assistance.

The system was there to help players and also protect the afl from the obvious massive negative if the worst outcome occurs. If someone participates in activities in private, should the consequences be the same as someone that does it in public...? One must remember that this was not setup to prevent the type of situation that Cousin may have participated in while playing.. it was more the melt down afterwards. The playing with drug enhancement is seperate..there are no stages in that.... and I still believe that Cousins and others at WC were assisted in 06. That game where they had the huge come back in geelong remains questionable, and how they never had a positive remains a stain imo.

 

[Spearman]

IMHO Essendon's (and the AFL's) intent is evidenced in how they are keeping their hands off Dank. Dank isn't a stakeholder in the footy industry. He'll divulge only if cornered. He knows exactly what was done, but where is his testimony? The stakeholders themselves don't want it out so they won't threaten him. Why hasn't anyone offered him immunity?
Hird and his dept. at best did a Trump and intimated what they wanted done. At worst they were discussing and approving everything at every stage of the program. There should be no rehabilitation without full disclosures by them.

 

[Partridge]

I'd prefer longer season, more frequent shorter games. 34 games of 15 minutes + time on quarters, much larger bench like 26 players per side uncapped rotations.

Couldn't imagine anything worse.

Might be a nice McSport, but it isn't footy.

 

[Partridge]

I feel like this has happened before and then was explained in the media that player xyz (Franklin?) was secretly suspended for his first strike.

I'm certain Franklin was one of them and I wouldn't mind betting every club has had a player in the same situation.

Money rules all at footy clubs, but hypocrisy comes a very close second.

 

[Partridge]

I'm going to come out and admit that I have never watched more than a quarter of the 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019 or 2021 grand finals. Why suffer such punishment when you can turn the tv off?

I think the perceived quality of the game almost always matches the views of the person watching it.

If their club isn't in contention, it's either boring or a poor standard. But not when my team wins, then it's either a classic or unbelievably high quality.

Don't know how any neutral couldn't enjoy 2016, that was great to watch. 2017 was very good for a half because Adelaide were red hot and started well, but you could see the longer it went the better Richmond were getting.

 

[Down at K Park]

Dusty martins dad died. He was in his early 50’s.

OD’ed?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Dusty martins dad died. He was in his early 50’s.

OD’ed?

Plenty of people die in their 50s of natural causes. Let's presume nothing

 

[cats_09]

Dusty martins dad died. He was in his early 50’s.

OD’ed?

Haven't seen anything confirmed one way or another, but this article concludes with information for Lifeline and Beyond Blue

‘Extremely difficult’: Dustin Martin’s dad passes away

Richmond and New Zealand Police confirmed Shane Martin had passed away.

7news.com.au

 

[David the Cat]

I'm sure there will be a high level of decorum in posts commenting on the death of Dustin Martin's father.

 

[Down at K Park]

Haven't seen anything confirmed one way or another, but this article concludes with information for Lifeline and Beyond Blue

‘Extremely difficult’: Dustin Martin’s dad passes away

Richmond and New Zealand Police confirmed Shane Martin had passed away.

7news.com.au

That usually means they have taken their own life. Dusty was very close to his dad so it’s going to be a tough slog for him.

 

[standupand]

I think the perceived quality of the game almost always matches the views of the person watching it.

If their club isn't in contention, it's either boring or a poor standard. But not when my team wins, then it's either a classic or unbelievably high quality.

Don't know how any neutral couldn't enjoy 2016, that was great to watch. 2017 was very good for a half because Adelaide were red hot and started well, but you could see the longer it went the better Richmond were getting.

Oh yeah, my perception of the games was totally clouded by emotion, usually because we were bundled out by one of the teams in the prelim. It totally takes me longer than 1 week to get over a prelim loss. In the other years the idea of watching the Hawks win didn't really appeal to me. They might have been all classic GFs for all I know. Everything looks s**t when you're in a state of footy depression.

Edit: I should add that unlike in Vic people in Qld invite you to stuff on the last Sat of Sept that doesn't involve watching "AFL".

 

[you pick one]

Oh yeah, my perception of the games was totally clouded by emotion, usually because we were bundled out by one of the teams in the prelim. It totally takes me longer than 1 week to get over a prelim loss. In the other years the idea of watching the Hawks win didn't really appeal to me. They might have been all classic GFs for all I know. Everything looks sh*t when you're in a state of footy depression.

Edit: I should add that unlike in Vic people in Qld invite you to stuff on the last Sat of Sept that doesn't involve watching "AFL".

Not me they don't and people know not to come around here while the footy is on if Geelong is involved,Ive never turned a game off early or left early no matter the score or position of the game.There is always something to take out of a loss to in fact I believe watching and breaking down losses allows you to be more across where your club, players and coaches sits and actions required to improve .

 

[standupand]

Not me they don't and people know not to come around here while the footy is on if Geelong is involved,Ive never turned a game off early or left early no matter the score or position of the game.There is always something to take out of a loss to in fact I believe watching and breaking down losses allows you to be more across where your club, players and coaches sits and actions required to improve .

You must have more empathetic friends than I do! Lol. I agree with you about Geelong games. I think I'm analytical enough to take something out of the losses. But watching two other teams play off for the flag when there is no chance we will meet them again until the following year..? I've gotta be in the right mood.

 

[you pick one]

You must have more empathetic friends than I do! Lol. I agree with you about Geelong games. I think I'm analytical enough to take something out of the losses. But watching two other teams play off for the flag when there is no chance we will meet them again until the following year..? I've gotta be in the right mood.

Yes it needs to be two exceptional attacking teams these days with history to get my full commitment to watch and I don't find that in interstate sides.

 

[BotsMaster]

If their club isn't in contention, it's either boring or a poor standard. But not when my team wins, then it's either a classic or unbelievably high quality.

I found most games Geelong played last season to be boring.

 

[Turbocat]

I found most games Geelong played last season to be boring.

I cant remember too many times in recent years coming away from a win enthused. It was like we manufactured a result, like we were playing factory footy. To be fair, maybe thats the trend in general , not just geelong

 

[Goggin Our Best]

The whole concept moves into the publics right to know... and what is the purpose of the system. One if the biggest flaws I feel was calling them strikes, as if the player was doing something that had triggered punishment. If we called it staged assistance.. low, medium and high level assistance ... or like traffic lights.. green assistance, amber assistance and finally red assistance.

The system was there to help players and also protect the afl from the obvious massive negative if the worst outcome occurs. If someone participates in activities in private, should the consequences be the same as someone that does it in public...? One must remember that this was not setup to prevent the type of situation that Cousin may have participated in while playing.. it was more the melt down afterwards. The playing with drug enhancement is seperate..there are no stages in that.... and I still believe that Cousins and others at WC were assisted in 06. That game where they had the huge come back in geelong remains questionable, and how they never had a positive remains a stain imo.

The question from a laypersons point of view - is Methamphetamines a stimulant

Well i will give you 2 examples - and i posted this on the main board about 3 years ago

There was an article on Dean Waters ( the ex boxer ) in the Sydney Morning Herald with direct quotes from him - and he said Meth is used by some boxers - quite prevalent - the reasons being he said - it gives the boxer a feeling of invincibly - which is a great mindset for a boxer - he added that you just have to take the right amount - giving the example of a NSW boxer who took too much and his arms couldnt keep up with his brain

Example no 2 - this was about 4-5 years ago - a Shearer up in the Central West of NSW - Orange or Wentworth around that area - went berserk - high on Meth so the police were called to the property - 2 of them - they had no hope - it took 6 Police Officers to get the bloke finally on ground and put the Cuffs on him- and then there were a couple of direct quotes from one of the Police Officers - he said in 35 years of policing - that bloke did something ive never seen before - he actually bent the Steel handcuffs - he further added - thats what that stuff does to them - it gives then tremendous strength

 

[Turbocat]

The question from a laypersons point of view - is Methamphetamines a stimulant

Well i will give you 2 examples - and i posted this on the main board about 3 years ago

There was an article on Dean Waters ( the ex boxer ) in the Sydney Morning Herald with direct quotes from him - and he said Meth is used by some boxers - quite prevalent - the reasons being he said - it gives the boxer a feeling of invincibly - which is a great mindset for a boxer - he added that you just have to take the right amount - giving the example of a NSW boxer who took too much and his arms couldnt keep up with his brain

Example no 2 - this was about 4-5 years ago - a Shearer up in the Central West of NSW - Orange or Wentworth around that area - went berserk - high on Meth so the police were called to the property - 2 of them - they had no hope - it took 6 Police Officers to get the bloke finally on ground and put the Cuffs on him- and then there were a couple of direct quotes from one of the Police Officers - he said in 35 years of policing - that bloke did something ive never seen before - he actually bent the Steel handcuffs - he further added - thats what that stuff does to them - it gives then tremendous strength

For me, the question is not so much if its a stimulant... i think thats a given. Going back to war with the Nazi's etc ts has been used for that reason.

The question is ..is it an enhancement? Does it allow you to play to a higher standard, and does it allow you to train and recover harder than you normally would be able to. Are the trucks being driven by the truck drivers to a higher standard, are they just being able to drive for a longer period?

Game day testing prevents first influence but the out of game testing is probably questionable. If one team could train twice as much over a short period, it falls into PED.

 

[winty]

Not quite sure how this is minimising travel...

GEELONG will get two pre-season hitouts ahead of the 2022 Toyota AFL Premiership season, including one full-scale match in early March and another practice match organised with a rival team.

The structure is similar to 2021 when the AFL looked to minimise travel for clubs as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to complicate professional sporting competitions.

Geelong will travel to Metricon Stadium on Monday 7 March for its AAMI Community Series clash.

Pre-season Fixture Reveal

Geelong will play a practice match and an AAMI Community Series match ahead of the 2022 season

www.geelongcats.com.au

 

[you pick one]

Not quite sure how this is minimising travel...

Pre-season Fixture Reveal

Geelong will play a practice match and an AAMI Community Series match ahead of the 2022 season

www.geelongcats.com.au

It will minimise travel for me I'm simply not going,North Coast to the Gold Coast through Brisbane peak hour on a week day no way that could be a 3 hour plus trip down and home around midnight.I went last time and Geelong just didn't want to be there and gave nothing at all. I vowed never never again.

 

[cats_09]

 

[standupand]

I'm glad they cleared that up. So in addition to assessing the intent, whether it was high, and the level of impact, that impact now includes what might have happened rather than just what did happen. Clear as day. Blame Hocking, go on.