Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Agreed regarding pressure is weak in the forward 50, averaging 2 less tackles in the forward 50.

So nice of you to agree with a fact that is known by many.

 

[Arr0w]

I'll take your refusal to answer as a "No".

Just another massive fail, demons 2nd last in efficiency and no officials stats to back up your claims of missed tackles

You really do struggle

 

[master bate]

People love using the Crazy Vossy recruiting as a weapon, but how much input did he honestly have in the list management area?
He was a first time coach, with zero experience and we're expected to believe that he was just handed the keys to the coaches box AND the recruiting department?
He's the only coach that I can think of who cops a disproportionate amount of blame for a role he shouldn't have had much influence over. At the end of the day, IF Voss was given free reign over recruiting decisions and could overrule the actual recruiters, that's an endictment on the club and recruiting department, not Voss.
He wasn't hired by Brisbane as a talent scout/recruiter and had less experience in that regard than he did as an actual coach.
He also wasn't hired for that role at Carlton and it's doubtful that he will have any meaningful influence over our list management team. Certainly no more than the average coach does.

Highlighting it as a reason why he might fail is just lazy and without substance.

Whether they are handed responsibility for list management or not coaches are absolutely responsible for the list direction of a club. They won't succeed without it.

Clearly no one knows how much responsibility Voss had at Brisbane but he was a club legend coming off a 14 win season and by adding so many players to a ageing list it pretty much doomed his time there.

Given Carlton have been diabolical at list management for nearly 20 years Voss will have to present a plan to the people making those decisions and work well with them to avoid similar disaster. That's true of any new coach obviously, but Voss didn't get it right first time.

 

[premiershipvigil]

So nice of you to agree with a fact that is known by many.

Cheers mate.

 

[premiershipvigil]

Just another massive fail, demons 2nd last in efficiency and no officials stats to back up your claims of missed tackles

You really do struggle

Do you think Voss will teach you how to tackle?

 

[Arr0w]

Do you think Voss will teach you how to tackle?

You still don't get it, it isn't about whether a player/team can or can't tackle, it's not an inability. it's about certain structures/setups that enable higher effective numbers

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Whether they are handed responsibility for list management or not coaches are absolutely responsible for the list direction of a club. They won't succeed without it.

Clearly no one knows how much responsibility Voss had at Brisbane but he was a club legend coming off a 14 win season and by adding so many players to a ageing list it pretty much doomed his time there.

Given Carlton have been diabolical at list management for nearly 20 years Voss will have to present a plan to the people making those decisions and work well with them to avoid similar disaster. That's true of any new coach obviously, but Voss didn't get it right first time.

How can we not know how much responsibility he had, but know that he got recruitment wrong?

List direction is something all coaches have a hand in, but none seem to get the blame for recruiting mistakes to the same level that Voss does. Clubs had list managers, recruiting teams and scouts back then. To think that the club just gave him carte blanche to target players and/or overrule the guys hired to perform that role, is naive at best, but more than likely, deliberately ignorant.

 

[premiershipvigil]

You still don't get it, it isn't about whether a player/team can or can't tackle, it's not an inability. it's about certain structures/setups that enable higher effective numbers

That's incorrect. Tackling is a skill so much so that its taught by specialist coaches, they even use ex-rugby players (not head coaches) to teach it.

 

[Arr0w]

That's incorrect. Tackling is a skill so much so that its taught by specialist coaches, they even use ex-rugby players (not head coaches) to teach it.

You think only certain clubs have access to specialist coaches/ex-rugby players? I think before you press send, you should re-read your post

 

[premiershipvigil]

You think only certain clubs have access to specialist coaches/ex-rugby players? I think before you press send, you should re-read your post

Who is your specialist tackling coach at the moment?

 

[Arr0w]

Who is your specialist tackling coach at the moment?

Just stop, best we put an end to this ridiculous discussion

Flag winners and where they ranked for tackles

2013 Hawks 8th
2014 Hawks 16th
2015 Hawks 10th
2016 Dogs 12th
2017 Tigers 7th
2018 Eagles 15th
2019 Tigers 11th
2020 Tigers 8th
2021 Demons 1st (This is why you want to push this discussion)

So, can you see it really isn't that vital to have better than competition averages in tackles to win a flag? If you still think this is somehow a new trend to lead the competition in tackles to win a flag, can you explain the following.

After the Demons were 15th and last in tackles 2019-20, who taught them how to tackle in one off season?

I really hope you don't keep going

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Who is your specialist tackling coach at the moment?

You're like a dog with a bone. I hope you have a great point at the end of this...

 

[premiershipvigil]

Just stop, best we put an end to this ridiculous discussion

Flag winners and where they ranked for tackles

2013 Hawks 8th
2014 Hawks 16th
2015 Hawks 10th
2016 Dogs 12th
2017 Tigers 7th
2018 Eagles 15th
2019 Tigers 11th
2020 Tigers 8th
2021 Demons 1st (This is why you want to push this discussion)

So, can you see it really isn't that vital to have better than competition averages in tackles to win a flag? If you still think this is somehow a new trend to lead the competition in tackles to win a flag, can you explain the following.

After the Demons were 15th and last in tackles 2019-20, who taught them how to tackle in one off season?

I really hope you don't keep going

Why?

 

[Arr0w]

You're like a dog with a bone. I hope you have a great point at the end of this...

He won't, everything is on the fly and digging himself deeper

 

[Taylor Moss]

That's incorrect. Tackling is a skill so much so that its taught by specialist coaches, they even use ex-rugby players (not head coaches) to teach it.

The best tackling technique in league is around the ankles. That’s not allowed in AFL?

 

[Jeremias]

You haven't answered my post yet mate, why won't Voss be able to teach the players how to tackle?

Back of the queue mate, he still hasn't answered my question from last night.

Its easy to keep attacking but harder for you to answer a simple question.

Bit rich, no? I asked a very simple question at least 5 times, which you still refuse to respond to.

 

[premiershipvigil]

Back of the queue mate, he still hasn't answered my question from last night.



Bit rich, no? I asked a very simple question at least 5 times, which you still refuse to respond to.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Jeremias]

What do you mean by that?

Which bit?

 

[premiershipvigil]

Which bit?

The rich bit. First, you said you asked a very simple question and now you're saying there's a queue, you should be more specific about the answer that you didn't like.

 

[Ambrosia]

Seems to me that a key question is what do Carlton do with Cripps. If his fitness and ability to run both ways return he will be a bonus.

For much of his time, he has been a central player in the game plan because there were not many others. This is no longer the case.

The past two years saw his form dip sharply. How much this was due to his back issue or problems with different game styles is unknown. I also wonder if it is time the Blues moved to a different leadership structure to take some pressure from him.

If Carlton get a B+ season out of him, it will be in bonus territory.

Thoughts?

I don’t think Cripps has ever had the ability to run both ways. It’s just when he was at his peak he was such a dominant inside force it didn’t matter that he was poor defensively.

 

[Jeremias]

The rich bit. First, you said you asked a very simple question and now you're saying there's a queue, you should be more specific about the answer that you didn't like.

I have asked the question a number of times. I have explained it further and pointed out why your answer falls short of the mark, primarily as it answers a completely different question to that which was asked.

It's not difficult, you clearly just choose not to. Not sure why - either you can't or it disproves whatever point you were trying to make.

 

[La Dispute]

I don’t think Cripps has ever had the ability to run both ways. It’s just when he was at his peak he was such a dominant inside force it didn’t matter that he was poor defensively.

This is a bit of a myth tbh. In 2018 he was 11th for tackles, in 2019 he was 15th - these are usually described as his best seasons and peak as a footballer.

I think numpties just watch faster players run past him and think 'Cripps can't run both ways' when the reality is as simple as 'Cripps can't run'

 

[Ambrosia]

Just stop, best we put an end to this ridiculous discussion

Flag winners and where they ranked for tackles

2013 Hawks 8th
2014 Hawks 16th
2015 Hawks 10th
2016 Dogs 12th
2017 Tigers 7th
2018 Eagles 15th
2019 Tigers 11th
2020 Tigers 8th
2021 Demons 1st (This is why you want to push this discussion)

So, can you see it really isn't that vital to have better than competition averages in tackles to win a flag? If you still think this is somehow a new trend to lead the competition in tackles to win a flag, can you explain the following.

After the Demons were 15th and last in tackles 2019-20, who taught them how to tackle in one off season?

I really hope you don't keep going

I know you weren’t the one to bring up tackles but total tackles is a junk stat that means very little isolation. If tackling is important then the differential will tell you much more then the raw total.

In 2021 Melbourne averaged 1.5 more tackles then there opponent which was good for the 11th best in the league. Carlton as an were -7.8. Number 1 in the lease was +10

 

[Ambrosia]

This is a bit of a myth tbh. In 2018 he was 11th for tackles, in 2019 he was 15th - these are usually described as his best seasons and peak as a footballer.

I think numpties just watch faster players run past him and think 'Cripps can't run both ways' when the reality is as simple as 'Cripps can't run'

Tackles aren’t a good measure of a midfielders defensive running as they are largely a contest stat which is Cripps’ bread and butter.

From what I’ve seen Cripps has never excelled at being a two way footballer not many star mids are tbh. The Sam Walsh types are a rarity.

 

[premiershipvigil]

The best tackling technique in league is around the ankles. That’s not allowed in AFL?

No that's tripping and is a free kick.