Ashes 2021/22

[Woody15]

But he hasn’t really had an extended run at all. After that Indian series it was 2 tests, dropped. 3 tests, dropped. Came back for the last test last summer 18 months after his last game and it’s been nearly 12 months between tests here.

Eddie, I've seen this play out before. Because Harris plays for Victoria, you are willing to ignore the fact he is one of the lowest averaging openers in test cricket history.

He has had plenty of opportunities. If he was up to it, no matter how long between tests played, he would have shown us by now.

edit: You're not very good at framing Harris' experience to suit your agenda. Once Harris made the team, he played in 6 straight tests. Averaged 23 from 13 innings. Is that not an extended stretch? 13 innings?

After that, played last 2 tests in England. Missed NZ series. Then has played the last 6 innings from India in Brisbane to where we are now. The last 6 innings averaging 16.

Has had 2 stretches of 13 innings & 6 innings (about to be more) and the best he could do is average 23. It is laughable to suggest he hasnt had an extended run.

 

[deanc]

Eddie, I've seen this play out before. Because Harris plays for Victoria, you are willing to ignore the fact he is one of the lowest averaging openers in test cricket history.

He has had plenty of opportunities. If he was up to it, no matter how long between tests played, he would have shown us by now.

edit: You're not very good at framing Harris' experience to suit your agenda. Once Harris made the team, he played in 6 straight tests. Averaged 23. Is that not an extended stretch? 13 innings?

After that, played last 2 tests in England. Missed NZ series. Then has played the last 6 innings from India in Brisbane to where we are now. The last 6 innings averaging 16.

Has had 2 stretches of 6 innings (about to be more) and the best he could do is average 23. It is laughable to suggest he hasnt had an extended run.

Took Steve Waugh 41 test innings prior to his maiden ton, (career 32 x 100's) accordingly Harris at only 23 innings has plenty of time..?

 

[Woody15]

Took Steve Waugh 41 test innings prior to his maiden ton, (career 32 x 100's) accordingly Harris at only 23 innings has plenty of time..?

Yeh I dont dispute Waugh took a while to blossom however, Waugh showed a bit more before that maiden century compared to Harris IMO and was down the order for the most part.

With Harris, I just cant see it. Happy to be wrong. I openly thought Labuschagne would never make it and how wrong I was.

 

[big_e]

Took Steve Waugh 41 test innings prior to his maiden ton, (career 32 x 100's) accordingly Harris at only 23 innings has plenty of time..?

Waugh also had 18 wickets in his first 12 tests, so his batting average of around 28 was a bit easier to handle.

 

[deanc]

Yeh I dont dispute Waugh took a while to blossom however, Waugh showed a bit more before that maiden century compared to Harris IMO and was down the order for the most part.

With Harris, I just cant see it. Happy to be wrong. I openly thought Labuschagne would never make it and how wrong I was.

Marcus Harris has 7700 FC runs, averages 54, highest score 250 with 19x100's and 31x50's - yet can't make runs in test cricket..!

Frankly, this almost seems implausible..? Australia's 'Graeme Hick' 30 years later...

 

[philreich]

Just read that Jos Buttler recently tried to sign a new contract, but he kept dropping the pen .

 

[Woody15]

Marcus Harris has 7700 FC runs, averages 54, highest score 250 with 19x100's and 31x50's - yet can't bat in test cricket..!

Frankly this almost seems implausible..?

A lot of players can look a million bucks at state level. In Marcus Harris’ case, it would appear he is unable to take the next step. Shaun Marsh another. Its not like we’ve had a small sample size to assess this. Stats aside, he doesnt even look close.

 

[eddiesmith]

Eddie, I've seen this play out before. Because Harris plays for Victoria, you are willing to ignore the fact he is one of the lowest averaging openers in test cricket history.

He has had plenty of opportunities. If he was up to it, no matter how long between tests played, he would have shown us by now.

edit: You're not very good at framing Harris' experience to suit your agenda. Once Harris made the team, he played in 6 straight tests. Averaged 23 from 13 innings. Is that not an extended stretch? 13 innings?

After that, played last 2 tests in England. Missed NZ series. Then has played the last 6 innings from India in Brisbane to where we are now. The last 6 innings averaging 16.

Has had 2 stretches of 13 innings & 6 innings (about to be more) and the best he could do is average 23. It is laughable to suggest he hasnt had an extended run.

The post I responded to was specifically talking about after the Indian Series.

The only home series he played the entire series he was about Australias best batsman.

As I also said, those last 6 innings included nearly 12 months in between the 2nd and 3rd innings. With no one really beating down the door and the team winning they can afford to give him the series.

Also curious how someone plays 13 innings in 6 tests??? Or how you managed to turn 33 into 23???

 

[Woody15]

The post I responded to was specifically talking about after the Indian Series.

The only home series he played the entire series he was about Australias best batsman.

As I also said, those last 6 innings included nearly 12 months in between the 2nd and 3rd innings. With no one really beating down the door and the team winning they can afford to give him the series.

Also curious how someone plays 13 innings in 6 tests??? Or how you managed to turn 33 into 23???

Typo/bad maths. 11. Big deal.
Statistically, one of the worst opening batsmen to ever play no matter how you want to sugarcoat it.

Everyone in this forum knows if Harris wasnt in a Victorian shirt, you wouldnt be running to his defense.

time between tests means * all. He was given the opportunity. 2 fifties from 23 innings is abysmal, no matter what amount of consecutive innings or series he was given.

 

[big_e]

A lot of players can look a million bucks at state level. In Marcus Harris’ case, it would appear he is unable to take the next step. Shaun Marsh another. Its not like we’ve had a small sample size to assess this. Stats aside, he doesnt even look close.

Shaun Marsh unable to take the next step?

Is that the same Shaun Marsh who has scored 13 centuries for his country?

 

[deanc]

Shaun Marsh unable to take the next step?

Is that the same Shaun Marsh who has scored 13 centuries for his country?

No, I think Woody is referring to the Shaun Marsh - who in 10 years had 4 test recalls totaling 68 innings and scored 6 centuries for his country at an average 34...?

 

[Scotland]

Marcus Harris has 7700 FC runs, averages 54, highest score 250 with 19x100's and 31x50's - yet can't make runs in test cricket..!

Frankly, this almost seems implausible..? Australia's 'Graeme Hick' 30 years later...

Harris averages 39. His strike rate is 54.

 

[Scotland]

Shaun Marsh unable to take the next step?

Is that the same Shaun Marsh who has scored 13 centuries for his country?

The same Shaun Marsh who with 6 100s and 10 50s from 68 innings averaged 34 in test cricket. Technically fine and like his brother hits the ball hard and straight but lacks the mental application to be a consistent contributor at test level. Even if he'd played 40 or 50 tests and got his average up from 34 to 40 or so he was always going to be one of those players that would score 300 runs in a 5 test series but get 250 of them in two of them and 50 across the other 6 innings.

NB: Shaun Marsh is an outstanding ODI/T20I cricketer who is unlucky to be playing at the same time as Warner, Finch, Watson, Smith, Clarke etc.

 

[Scotland]

Waugh also had 18 wickets in his first 12 tests, so his batting average of around 28 was a bit easier to handle.

Steve Waugh not making 100 until his 41st innings has become an overused statistic.

In his first 41 innings he batted at #8 4 times and #7 11 times. Not many players come in and score centuries at 7 and 8. He did score 10 50s including a couple of 90s and a 79* and was eventually dropped before being recalled and going on to have a long and successful career as a batsman. These days a guy like Waugh is unlikely to get picked outside the top 6.

 

[The hands of stone]

Harris most likely isnt up to up .

But next choice is Khuwaja which could be seen as a backwards step , Puc who is a way off playing with doubts if he ever does and than Street/Hunt who are both a while off IMO ( 12-18 months ) but good prospects .

If we drop Harris and bring in Street will people be calling for him to be dropped if he has a poor series . How much time does he get given ? 2 tests , 5 tests ?
Reckon the BF patience level for some is about 5-6 innings.

We are 2-0 up , Ashes pretty safely locked in .
The guys in the frame arent even playing long form cricket to have genuine form now to select them.
Thats an issue .

I can see why they are sticking with him at this stage .

 

[philreich]

Harris most likely isnt up to up .

But next choice is Khuwaja which could be seen as a backwards step , Puc who is a way off playing with doubts if he ever does and than Street/Hunt who are both a while off IMO ( 12-18 months ) but good prospects .

If we drop Harris and bring in Street will people be calling for him to be dropped if he has a poor series . How much time does he get given ? 2 tests , 5 tests ?
Reckon the BF patience level for some is about 5-6 innings.

We are 2-0 up , Ashes pretty safely locked in .
The guys in the frame arent even playing long form cricket to have genuine form now to select them.
Thats an issue .

I can see why they are sticking with him at this stage .

The thing is, even without a suitable alternative, at what point do you make the switch? We can't persist with a non performing opener for too long, because it constantly places the incoming batsmen under pressure.

 

[The hands of stone]

The thing is, even without a suitable alternative, at what point do you make the switch? We can't persist with a non performing opener for too long, because it constantly places the incoming batsmen under pressure.

Ideally at the start of the series for a younger long term prospect .
I think Harris gets this test, than they will make a move if needed.

Like I say I dont think he is up to test level ( pretty obvious ) but its not like we have options in form playing to just slot in either .

 

[philreich]

Ideally at the start of the series for a younger long term prospect .
I think Harris gets this test, than they will make a move if needed.

Like I say I dont think he is up to test level ( pretty obvious ) but its not like we have options in form playing to just slot in either .

But that's why the timing of the BBL is so wrong. When a bloke is out of form, there's no way for anyone out of the team to stake their claim for a spot in the team, because there's no 4 day cricket for 2 months, and picking someone because of T20 form has proved to be baseless.

 

[Slysh]

But he hasn’t really had an extended run at all. After that Indian series it was 2 tests, dropped. 3 tests, dropped. Came back for the last test last summer 18 months after his last game and it’s been nearly 12 months between tests here.

Not many cricketers get more than 2-3 tests of repeated failures.

15 innings with no half centuries and over half not eve reaching double digits is so far below expectation you can't expect a consistent run. Show something, anything.

 

[Slysh]

looks like for England

In
Crawley Bairstow Leach Wood

Out
Hameed/Burns
Pope
Broad/Anderson
Woakes/Robinson

Just depends on which of the two they decide to drop

England throwing the baby with the bath water

Very uninspiring ins

shuffling deck chairs on the titanic but not really much else they can do

 

[Woody15]

Shaun Marsh unable to take the next step?

Is that the same Shaun Marsh who has scored 13 centuries for his country?

Yeh not a great comparison in terms of records. Marsh certainly produced for Aus. Just not as often as we might have hoped. More of a comment in terms of confidence. Marsh would go back and belt it everywhere during the Shield but look a completely different and timid player in the test team.

Harris might very well have a decent record in the Shield lately, but you wouldnt know watching him this series.

 

[The hands of stone]

But that's why the timing of the BBL is so wrong. When a bloke is out of form, there's no way for anyone out of the team to stake their claim for a spot in the team, because there's no 4 day cricket for 2 months, and picking someone because of T20 form has proved to be baseless.

100% agree

Ideally Harris would be going straight back to shield .
The guys in line have had shield games running line with the tests to perform to stake a claim.

Makes it harder for selectors . Its not ideal.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Very uninspiring ins

shuffling deck chairs on the titanic but not really much else they can do

There's a whisper covid is impacting selection

 

[gordo2016]

The thing is, even without a suitable alternative, at what point do you make the switch? We can't persist with a non performing opener for too long, because it constantly places the incoming batsmen under pressure.

I think what is saving Harris is they are winning so it is much easier to persist in him. The moment they lose and he makes no runs he will be dropped.

 

[Gough]

There's a whisper covid is impacting selection

The way things are going in Sydney who the f*** knows what will happen to their Test?