Analysis Where does Buddy Franklin rank amongst the greats?

[Angak]

Are you sure?....This era is all about the “striker” the guy who floats between midfield & forward....Look how successful Dusty has been at hitting the scoreboard, Ablett would of been streets ahead of anyone going around in that space...The guy was regularly kicking between 60-90 goals in the 80’s as a wingman/HF!

Point taken. How many goals does Ablett Snr kick in this era ?

 

[Catsnlakers]

Point taken. How many goals does Ablett Snr kick in this era ?

If he was playing the “Dusty role” he’d average about 3 goals a game I reckon, so I’ll say the 60-70 odd goal mark....I think of Tom Stewart from my own team (who got Dusty this year) who’s almost the best going around as a mid size defender, there’s no way even he could contain Ablett to less than a few goals...

 

[RUNVS]

If he was playing the “Dusty role” he’d average about 3 goals a game I reckon, so I’ll say the 60-70 odd goal mark....I think of Tom Stewart from my own team (who got Dusty this year) who’s almost the best going around as a mid size defender, there’s no way even he could contain Ablett to less than a few goals...

and when was the last time a sub 190cm player won the Coleman?

 

[Liam Boy]

and when was the last time a sub 190cm player won the Coleman?

Not sure if this is an actual question but it was Ablett Sr. in 1995

 

[Catsnlakers]

and when was the last time a sub 190cm player won the Coleman?

Height isn’t relevant because as I just said he’d be playing the mid/forward role & wouldn’t be the stay at home forward....I’ll ask you, do you not think the way the game is played atm a mid 80’s version of Ablett couldn’t average 3 goals a game in an era of no tagging & drop off half backs? Think of the way Robbie Grey has destroyed teams for years, well Ablett would do much more than that...

 

[RUNVS]

Height isn’t relevant because as I just said he’d be playing the mid/forward role & wouldn’t be the stay at home forward....I’ll ask you, do you not think the way the game is played atm a mid 80’s version of Ablett couldn’t average 3 goals a game in an era of no tagging & drop off half backs? Think of the way Robbie Grey has destroyed teams for years, well Ablett would do much more than that...

Height is very relevant. Also while he isn't as good I would back a guy like Rampe in his prime on Ablett Snr. He would be a good matchup for him.

Also Gary Ablett Snr only averaged 15 disposals throughout his career, which doesn't indicate he was someone who spent a lot of time in the midfield.

 

[HairyO]

Ignoring fatigue. Sure.

Fat blokes who ate meat pies at half time and had no bench to rest on didnt get tired ??

How many games these days start with heaps of missed shots? 1 goal 5 behinds was WAY more common than 3 goals 3 behinds.... do they start the games exhausted ?

Maybe players should sleep the night before.

 

[juss]

As a forward, top 10.
As an overall player, top 25.

 

[HairyO]

As a forward, top 10.
As an overall player, top 25.

Top 5 I can agree. But who are the 6th through 10th you rate ahead of him ?

 

[juss]

Top 5 I can agree. But who are the 6th through 10th you rate ahead of him ?

It's like a range, I reckon most have him 5th -10th.

Others that could be in that range are probably Hart, Coleman, Wade, Coventry, Hudson, Kernahan. Lloyd probably gets in the conversation but not ahead of Buddy I guess. Probably a couple of others.

Some might have Buddy better than them all, but it's subjective.

 

[owen87]

Fat blokes who ate meat pies at half time and had no bench to rest on didnt get tired ??

How many games these days start with heaps of missed shots? 1 goal 5 behinds was WAY more common than 3 goals 3 behinds.... do they start the games exhausted ?

Maybe players should sleep the night before.

Unless somehow you think modern players are all universally poor kicks, despite field kicking being as good as at any time in history, then yes, fatigue is the obvious reason for inaccuracy.

Modern KPF's run substantially further than past KPF's right from the very first bounce.

 

[Trav 20]

Top 5 I can agree. But who are the 6th through 10th you rate ahead of him ?

I reckon there's a fair argument that Franklin is behind the following forwards:

Coventry, Coleman, Carey, Ablett Snr, Hart, Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson and potentially Bob Pratt for his amazing record. I don't rate Wade quite as highly as these players.

I suspect Buddy takes his place just inside the top 10. His marking is always the query.

When one adds the incredible midfielders who've played the game I can see why many don't have Franklin as a top 20 all-time player. I'd probably have him in the 20-30 range.

 

[HairyO]

Unless somehow you think modern players are all universally poor kicks, despite field kicking being as good as at any time in history, then yes, fatigue is the obvious reason for inaccuracy.

Modern KPF's run substantially further than past KPF's right from the very first bounce.

So the first 3 or 4 shots at goal they are exhausted?

That really is your argument?

And disposals are far worse now. These days its amazing to see a player kick with either foot.

The only reason field kicking looks clean is because the modern game avoids a contest at all costs. Anyone can chip the ball 20m sideways.

 

[RUNVS]

So the first 3 or 4 shots at goal they are exhausted?

That really is your argument?

And disposals are far worse now. These days its amazing to see a player kick with either foot.

The only reason field kicking looks clean is because the modern game avoids a contest at all costs. Anyone can chip the ball 20m sideways.

A modern day player has a lot more pressure when kicking the ball than they had in the 80's and 90's.

 

[My Tilly]

Height is very relevant. Also while he isn't as good I would back a guy like Rampe in his prime on Ablett Snr. He would be a good matchup for him.

Also Gary Ablett Snr only averaged 15 disposals throughout his career, which doesn't indicate he was someone who spent a lot of time in the midfield.

Rampe would get destroyed. Ben Hart could never contain Ablett and he was a similar defender to Rampe (better aerially as well). Ablett had an explosive first step so he was often the first to hit the ground running.

And in his prime, he was averaging closer to 18-20 disposals per game before he moved to full forward on a permanent basis and his disposal count dropped to 13-15 touches each game.

 

[nickcat0]

I find it staggering that 17% of people don’t think Franklin makes the top 20.

Some fans seem reluctant or incapable of recognising greatness when it’s in front of them. The rose tinted glasses come out when looking in the past rather than the present.

Needless to say, we’ve all been fortunate to watch Franklin play the game. For me he’s in the top 5 players to ever strap on a boot. The dude is a freak among freaks.

I don't think he makes the Top 20, he's certainly not in the Top 5 All-Time.

In my time of watching footy, I'd have him #4 Forward, behind Carey, Lockett and Ablett Snr.

You then factor in all the great players in other positions, Ablett Jnr, Voss, Buckley, Judd, Martin, Matthews etc etc; and Buddy is already way outside the Top 10.

Now add all the great players from the 90 years that I never saw, and it very quickly becomes hard to squeeze Buddy into the Top 20.

 

[RUNVS]

Rampe would get destroyed. Ben Hart could never contain Ablett and he was a similar defender to Rampe (better aerially as well). Ablett had an explosive first step so he was often the first to hit the ground running.

And in his prime, he was averaging closer to 18-20 disposals per game before he moved to full forward on a permanent basis and his disposal count dropped to 13-15 touches each game.

In his prime Rampe never got destroyed. He can run with Ablett through the midfield, he is 4cm taller than Ablett and he was very used to competing against players physically stronger than himself. I am not saying he is as good as Ablett, that is crazy, but I think Rampe would represent himself well on Ablett.

Few defenders of Rampe's height could play against both tall and small defenders, run with them and out muscle them like Rampe could. He is a bit short for the proper key forwards of the modern era (even though he did well on them in his prime) but for Ablett who is 185cm Rampe would be very well suited.

 

[HairyO]

A modern day player has a lot more pressure when kicking the ball than they had in the 80's and 90's.

Clearly you didnt watch football until recently.

Constant grabbing and being held by the man on the mark, multiple players on the mark.

For years we have had the exclusion zone and now the player on the mark cant move at all.

 

[RUNVS]

Clearly you didnt watch football until recently.

Constant grabbing and being held by the man on the mark, multiple players on the mark.

For years we have had the exclusion zone and now the player on the mark cant move at all.

I am talking about pressure, as in "I have half a second to get rid of this ball before I am tackled" kind of pressure.

 

[HairyO]

I am talking about pressure, as in "I have half a second to get rid of this ball before I am tackled" kind of pressure.

How often do key forwards take those sorts of shots vs set shots.

Maybe if Buddy was a stronger mark...

 

[owen87]

So the first 3 or 4 shots at goal they are exhausted?

That really is your argument?

And disposals are far worse now. These days its amazing to see a player kick with either foot.

The only reason field kicking looks clean is because the modern game avoids a contest at all costs. Anyone can chip the ball 20m sideways.

I’m becoming increasingly convinced you’ve not watched much football.

 

[sr36]

Unless somehow you think modern players are all universally poor kicks, despite field kicking being as good as at any time in history, then yes, fatigue is the obvious reason for inaccuracy.

Modern KPF's run substantially further than past KPF's right from the very first bounce.

The modern forwards are better kicks for goal, even with the fatigue factor. The good ones have the same percentages as those from yesteryear, but take more difficult shots at goal due to zone defences pushing them wider and further out more often.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Players from previous generations like Coleman, Coventry and Pratt played on grounds with poor drainage and where the ball was not regularly replaced.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I’ve always seen Franklin more as a roaming forward than a full forward so I think it’s incredible he will kick 1000 plus goals and average 3 goals a game across a potentially 350 game career.
One on one he is the most dominant player I have seen, there is nothing better than seeing Buddy get goal side of his opponent and out back with nothing but open space between he and the goals. He can land them from anywhere within 60m which is incredible. I have Ablett Snr and Carey ahead of him as half forwards but I’d say he is comfortably a top 5 forward of the past 30 years.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I reckon there's a fair argument that Franklin is behind the following forwards:

Coventry, Coleman, Carey, Ablett Snr, Hart, Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson and potentially Bob Pratt for his amazing record. I don't rate Wade quite as highly as these players.

I suspect Buddy takes his place just inside the top 10. His marking is always the query.

When one adds the incredible midfielders who've played the game I can see why many don't have Franklin as a top 20 all-time player. I'd probably have him in the 20-30 range.

I never saw Hart play so can’t judge too much, but career averages of 13 touches, 5 marks, and less than 2 goals a game over 187 games does not show he was better as a forward no matter how he rated at the time.