What are the question marks over your team in 2022?

[pazza]

I think it's about how the key defence for us.

We have sorted out the front end well and recruited in that manner. May that group stay solid.

But, I am worried about KPDs. Not a lot to write home about there and we seem to have a number of running and 3rd defender types. Can that work long term?

 

[Toump Ass]

I thought I was okay with Melbourne winning again next year...

Then I read Toump Ass' posts.

Imagine how good it will be if we win next year, just imagine it!!!

I'll have to start another bigfooty account just so I can talk to someone about how good Dees are when no one else is around.

Will be the best year ever if it happens!!!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Imagine how good it will be if we win next year, just imagine it!!!

I'll have to start another bigfooty account just so I can talk to someone about how good Dees are when no one else is around.

Will be the best year ever if it happens!!!

No-one doubts how well the Dees played in 2021. Few could argue they were not the most deserving of Premiers. The smiting of Footscray was comprehensive.

Most recognise that all being equal they will be a force for the next few seasons.

Dees' fans like the long suffering Tigger fans before them can sit back and enjoy a great ride.

 

[juss]

I thought I was okay with Melbourne winning again next year...

Then I read Toump Ass' posts.

Fast approaching "ignore" status so I don't have to read it. Never go full Toump Ass.

 

[Toump Ass]

No-one doubts how well the Dees played in 2021.

I don't even care. I'm going to keep reminding everyone even if they already know. I'll start again now:

Leading to the bye, my beloved Dees only beat the reigning premiers, Dogs, Lions, Power and Cats because those teams had injuries.

Then they were only winning games because we were "peaking too early"- that's when you play your best football in say, March, April, May, June, July, August etc. which is called "peaking too early" and means you are not very good because you need to play good football in September (that's when the finals is you see, so that's what the actual good teams do: winning games in H&A doesn't mean you are good it just means you are stupid for not playing crap football and saving your good football for later).

Maybe Dees only won the flag because every other coach in the AFL was too busy hunting Richmond? That makes sense, Richmond were the best team in the AFL I think, even when Melbourne had beaten literally every other Top 8 team and Richmond couldn't even beat an Auskick side. Even then, still, every single AFL coach was trying to figure out how to beat Richmond, because they were "the Hunted" you see, and no one hunted Melbourne because they weren't very good because you're not supposed to win games in the Home and Away Season because that just means you're peaking too early or playing teams with injuries.

Now Melbourne aren't very good because they never had any "depth-testing", that is when a team has their "depth tested", ie: have to replace players with injuries with other players (depth). Even when we named debutants like Jake Bowey, or replaced key backmen with guys who only played 11 games, or went without a key forward for half the season, that didn't count because the players we replaced them with were really good- "depth-testing" only counts when you replace good players with s**t players, you see. Otherwise it's what's called a net zero loss (I only learned that yesterday, it really is as dumb as it sounds isn't it?).

Tell me more about how it's mathematically impossible for Max Gawn, Clayton Oliver, and Christian Petracca to EVER play a full or near full season together..? Except 2021, when they played every game, 2020 when they missed a combined three, 2019 where they missed a one, 2018 the same... so, in total those three players have missed a combined 5 games in 4 seasons from injury or suspension. BUT IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

And we still only lost four games for the year and tore the Western Bulldogs a new one in the grand final.


Kiss my ass haters... Dees are the best!!!

PS: Don't forget to hit the "Subscribe" button so you can read this again next time I post it!!!

 

[Herzog]

Will our female membership numbers plummet now Chris Mayne has retired?

We got Lipinski in for the Chris Mayne role.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Your list is a bigger concern

Belted the Dogs, Lions and Swans on the run home, and drew with Melbourne. No other team outside of the top 8 defeated more than 3 top 8 sides for the year. Hawthorn defeated 5.

The list is in much better shape than what a lot of Bigfooty(who would be happy if Hawthorn never win another final) would like to concede, but the question mark is over how far Mitchell rolls back the defensively regimented game style that Clarkson ran with, how he changes up the midfield dynamic, and how a more attacking mindset transitions onto the field.

 

[Dazb86]

Belted the Dogs, Lions and Swans on the run home, and drew with Melbourne. No other team outside of the top 8 defeated more than 3 top 8 sides for the year. Hawthorn defeated 5.

The list is in much better shape than what a lot of Bigfooty(who would be happy if Hawthorn never win another final) would like to concede, but the question mark is over how far Mitchell rolls back the defensively regimented game style that Clarkson ran with, how he changes up the midfield dynamic, and how a more attacking mindset transitions onto the field.

I think you're in for some lean years.

 

[Toump Ass]

Fast approaching "ignore" status so I don't have to read it. Never go full Toump Ass.

My objective has always been to elevate the level of discourse on bigfooty mainboard, thus I am deeply hurt you would consider ignoring me.

I am not here to defend my club against spurious claims; I hold assertions like "Petty is not depth because he played well" to the light not to mock or denigrate, but rather as objects of critical analysis, hopeful that viewing these comments from all angles reveals their innate stupidity, thereby encouraging our peers to think before they post and refrain from publishing content that drives mainboard dialogue into a metaphorical toilet bowl.

I feel like I'm doing a really good job already, but don't worry: I'll try harder, do better, and post more frequently. The summer is long and my time is meaningless. I'm just getting started baby!

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Your list is a bigger concern

Bs

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

1. 2nd key defensive post and questionable quality of depth in the position.

2. New coaches. New gameplan. How long does it take to learn?

3. Physicality and manic attack at the contest. Do we have it in us?

4. Inexperienced small forwards.

5. A host of players who haven't lived up to their promise. What if they never do?

 

[master bate]

1. Depth - Melbourne had the greatest injury run of all time in 2021, with covid likely a huge factor in 2022 depth will be tested and Melbourne's isn't as great as people will make out to be. Older key position players and some very shaky back up runners.

2. Key forwards - Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

is excellent at his best but it took half a year and a mini preseason to get his body right and even then he's an excellent attacking player who's iffy the other way. Weideman hasn't come on. Tom McDonald

25

Tom Mcdonald

Age

31

Ht

195cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

261.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.6

1star

MG

135.6

2star

D

13.8

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

was excellent for 2/3rds of the season but is still shaky

3. Tactical evolution - obviously the crash and bash game plan stood up in finals and is very hard to counter but it takes a big toll and teams will zero in on aspects of it. This team has more than enough skill and run to counter with a more uncontested style, at least to get through the home and away season. It's definitely something I'd be pushing for if I was the coach.

 

[Dazb86]

Bs

Where on the 'talent on paper' ladder do you think the Hawks currently sit?

 

[master bate]

If Pretracca and/or Oliver miss games, what’s the Dees midfield look like? Gawn, Viney and …. ahem .. Harmes? Neal-Bullen? Hardly terrifying midfield depth. It just isn’t tested as Gawn, Oliver and Petracca played 75/75 and 90% game time. Dees didn’t need any midfield depth. They are the best 3 midfield in the competition by far right now. But Dees 4-7th midfield rotation would be just about the worst. Harmes, Viney, Neal-Bullen and Brayshaw/Jordon?

Compare that to Dunkley, Treloar, Smith, Libba and Hunter (after Bont, Macrae and English). It’s not even in the same ballpark for depth quality.

But if the ‘Big-3’ stay fit the depth is an irrelevance.

Depth is absolutely a big factor, no point denying it.

In terms of the midfield one of my biggest concerns going in to the grand final was the Dogs midfield is deeper in terms of class, but you're right the Dees can cover it if the big 3 and really big 4 (Viney can't be undersold) can stay on the park.

The emergence of Jackson can cover Gawn far more than we used to be able to.

Dunstan has been bought over to provide mature cover, my guess is they want him shadowing Viney and playing a very specific role if needed.

It's impossible to cover Oliver and Petracca entirely. I do think Harmes gets a little undervalued because he hasn't had a clear run in the midfield for a few years now. He's messy, but physically he's right at the peak of quality senior mids, he can play very solid midfield footy. Obviously you can't replace A graders like for like but the important name in terms of providing upside and growth is Tom Sparrow. He's got a fair bit to go to be on the level of guys like Treloar, Dunkley or Smith as rotational mids but he could prove better than a lot of most other sides back ups.

I'd probably be just as worried in terms of winning week to week about who comes in on a forward flank if you roll the second line midfielders up on ball. Given how much is asked of those players in Melbourne (and every teams) game plan I'm not sure there's a lot of ready made guys who can come in and do the defensive work and impact the other way.

 

[Obeanie1]

For the Eagles it comes down to:

Fitness - injuries and unfit players
Desire / hunger - since 2018 havent seen much if any
Game plan - Simo and the Eagles have become slow and predictable. Game plan is out dated and has been worked out.

Talent is there for another crack but if those three areas arent address wont make finals. Another year like last year they will finish bottom four.

 

[Obeanie1]

Nah, you're right, the Dees did reasonably well on the injury front

But it is over-emphasised.

Had we lost Petracca, Oliver or Gawn, someone already named would play their role: Jackson to the ruck, Brayshaw/Viney/Harmes to shovel the ball out. We need not rely on Nathan Jones or Jake Melksham (a combined 17 games for the year) to win the game. Our players are trained in several roles and we're the fittest team in the league. We carried plenty with injuries through the year, turned unknown players like Petty (11 games when selected) and Bowey (0) into premiership heroes, played without our KPF for more than half the season, and still only lost 4 games (one by a point) on our way to premiership glory. We were absolutely head and shoulders above every other team in the league.

Dees are the best. And we're only getting better baby!!!

Dees current list should get better based on age.

But that doesnt mean injuries cant halt that.

As for your other post about Dogs, they copped injuries to key players throughout the season. Trelor, Dunkley, Bruce and Martin all missed big chunks of the season. Eastern Wood struggled and retired with stuffed knees.

Martin, Wood and Bruce were the big ones. Martin was rushed back in underdone and English moved forward. Their ruck issue was the biggest problem followed by kp defenders.

Melbourne had no such issues.

 

[Dazb86]

Depth is absolutely a big factor, no point denying it.

In terms of the midfield one of my biggest concerns going in to the grand final was the Dogs midfield is deeper in terms of class, but you're right the Dees can cover it if the big 3 and really big 4 (Viney can't be undersold) can stay on the park.

The emergence of Jackson can cover Gawn far more than we used to be able to.

Dunstan has been bought over to provide mature cover, my guess is they want him shadowing Viney and playing a very specific role if needed.

It's impossible to cover Oliver and Petracca entirely. I do think Harmes gets a little undervalued because he hasn't had a clear run in the midfield for a few years now. He's messy, but physically he's right at the peak of quality senior mids, he can play very solid midfield footy. Obviously you can't replace A graders like for like but the important name in terms of providing upside and growth is Tom Sparrow. He's got a fair bit to go to be on the level of guys like Treloar, Dunkley or Smith as rotational mids but he could prove better than a lot of most other sides back ups.

I'd probably be just as worried in terms of winning week to week about who comes in on a forward flank if you roll the second line midfielders up on ball. Given how much is asked of those players in Melbourne (and every teams) game plan I'm not sure there's a lot of ready made guys who can come in and do the defensive work and impact the other way.

You guys are pretty much sorted through the midfield provided there aren't injuries. Best ruck division and best onball brigade when at their best. Too much is made of the rotational mids roles. They're great to have if injuries occur but if you keep the same core most games a lot of good players become surplus to needs and they get wasted playing a half forward role. Throughout the year we basically kept the same structure on the ball give or take a little bit of shuffling when Dunkley went down early.

Leading into the grand final I thought we had the best onball brigade but Oliver and Petracca blew us off the park in a 5 minute burst. I don't think we have the bulls through the midfield to do that.

 

[Jack Green]

1. Depth - Melbourne had the greatest injury run of all time in 2021, with covid likely a huge factor in 2022 depth will be tested and Melbourne's isn't as great as people will make out to be. Older key position players and some very shaky back up runners.

2. Key forwards - Ben Brown is excellent at his best but it took half a year and a mini preseason to get his body right and even then he's an excellent attacking player who's iffy the other way. Weideman hasn't come on. Tom McDonald was excellent for 2/3rds of the season but is still shaky

3. Tactical evolution - obviously the crash and bash game plan stood up in finals and is very hard to counter but it takes a big toll and teams will zero in on aspects of it. This team has more than enough skill and run to counter with a more uncontested style, at least to get through the home and away season. It's definitely something I'd be pushing for if I was the coach.

Depth - Melbourne had the greatest injury run of all time in 2021 And your a Melbourne supporter.
I can sense another Toump Ass diatribe coming on

 

[Jack Green]

1. 2nd key defensive post and questionable quality of depth in the position.

2. New coaches. New gameplan. How long does it take to learn?

3. Physicality and manic attack at the contest. Do we have it in us?

4. Inexperienced small forwards.

5. A host of players who haven't lived up to their promise. What if they never do?

I think you'll miss Jones more than people think in 2022. The games I saw he really worked well in tandem with Weitering.
New coach is always hard to predict and that is the same for Pies and Hawks . Players who don't live up to promise. Yep- every club has them but the Blues probably have more than most . I have the Blues like the Saints in that 7-12 mid -table range. Don't see either dropping into bottom 6 with their talent and list demographic. Be interesting if they can elevate themselves into the top 6 . For both our clubs your no 5 point ,will probably determine whether that happens

 

[beema limapep]

Game plan to adjust to the stand rule and combat more organised defensive structures. I.e. we need to get first hands on the ball for clearances and hit targets moving the ball from midfield to fwd, and be less reliant on kicking to 50/50 open contested ball contests and grinding out tackles.

Will Martin, Cotchin, Riewoldt play to peak form, and if not, will our kids be capable of bridging the gap on such short term experience.

Injuries.

 

[Toump Ass]

Dees current list should get better based on age. But that doesnt mean injuries cant halt that.

Of course. But the suggestion it is a minor miracle that Gawn, Oliver and Petracca were not injured in one season is demonstrably false. They have missed a combined 5 games from the last 4 seasons through injury and suspension. They are durable players, and with the exception of Gawn, youthful as well.

On the other hand, neither Martin (34 years old), Wood (32) or Treloar (28) managed near a full season in the last two years. I would argue that Tomlinson, Brown, Viney and Harmes were similar losses. And like Melbourne, the Dogs did have their best players get through the season (McRae, Bont, Libba etc.)

It's incredibly rare that a team will go through a complete season with it's three best players injured for significant periods of time. And if that happens, I trust the club will do what they did in 2019 and tank the season so we can get another incredible draft haul like Jackson, Pickett and Rivers.

Martin, Wood and Bruce were the big ones. Martin was rushed back in underdone and English moved forward. Their ruck issue was the biggest problem followed by kp defenders.

Melbourne had no such issues.

That's not all luck though; it's poor list management. The Dogs have had a ruck issue for years and recruiting a 34 year old who hadn't managed a full season was never going to be the answer. That the Dogs signed Treloar, even at a bargain price, despite having such a strong midfield was odd, as the cap space could have been used to lure someone who was a genuine need (ie: someone to replace Wood). Bruce's loss was unlucky, and unfortunately for them, the would-be number 1 draft pick they had the very good fortune to receive wasn't ready.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Where on the 'talent on paper' ladder do you think the Hawks currently sit?

Underrated bud xx

 

[Obeanie1]

Underrated bud xx

And seriously overrated by Hawks fans.

If they finish higher than 16th that will be a surprise IMO.

Even your coach has no idea how they will go.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

And seriously overrated by Hawks fans.

If they finish higher than 16th that will be a surprise IMO.

Even your coach has no idea how they will go.

Lol

Well be prepared.

Since when?

 

[Noidnadroj]

Of course. But the suggestion it is a minor miracle that Gawn, Oliver and Petracca were not injured in one season is demonstrably false. They have missed a combined 5 games from the last 4 seasons through injury and suspension. They are durable players, and with the exception of Gawn, youthful as well.

On the other hand, neither Martin (34 years old), Wood (32) or Treloar (28) managed near a full season in the last two years. I would argue that Tomlinson, Brown, Viney and Harmes were similar losses. And like Melbourne, the Dogs did have their best players get through the season (McRae, Bont, Libba etc.)

It's incredibly rare that a team will go through a complete season with it's three best players injured for significant periods of time. And if that happens, I trust the club will do what they did in 2019 and tank the season so we can get another incredible draft haul like Jackson, Pickett and Rivers.

That's not all luck though; it's poor list management. The Dogs have had a ruck issue for years and recruiting a 34 year old who hadn't managed a full season was never going to be the answer. That the Dogs signed Treloar, even at a bargain price, despite having such a strong midfield was odd, as the cap space could have been used to lure someone who was a genuine need (ie: someone to replace Wood). Bruce's loss was unlucky, and unfortunately for them, the would-be number 1 draft pick they had the very good fortune to receive wasn't ready.

Of course it’s rare for a teams 3 x best players to play 100% of games. It’s not rare to have a good injury run, but 75 of 75 would be rare.

Richmond had a great injury run 2017 and 2018. Reiwoldt, Cotchin, Martin, Edwards, Vlastuin, Grimes, Rance, Nank barely missed. That all changed in the first half of both 2019 and 2020, but we got them all back just in time and had a good run into finals which delivered flags.

If Dusty, Prestia and Bolton play 75 of 75 Richmond will make top-4. If in addition Grimes, Vlastuin, Lynch and Nankervis barely miss we will give the flag a real shake.

If Danger, Hawkins and Stewart player 75 of 75 the Cats will contend. If Cameron, Parfitt, Duncan and Henry barely miss the Cats will contend.

It’s the same for about 10-teams in 2022. Give them a dream injury run and they’ll be in flag contention and there when the whips are cracking.

If 2-3 of Gawn, Lever, May, Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Salem miss big chunks the Demons won’t be winning the flag.


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