Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

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Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:
  • Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
  • 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
  • Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
  • Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty
TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone
 
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kat1234

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If the Claremont Killer’s Prosecutor (Barbagallo) was prosecuting either of William’s Foster Carers for crimes related to covering up William having had an accident, and then secretly and wilfully disposing of his body, in an attempt to cover up what happened, and then lying to NSW Police, FACS and the Coroner, rather than immediately seeking medical help for William or calling Emergency Services …..

IMO, Barbagallo would (in any hypothetical pre-trial hearings that the judge might hold to rule any proposed propensity evidence admissible or inadmissible in the hypothectical upcoming trial by jury or judge only)
….. hold it right there
As I’m neither legally qualified or up to speed on the legal use of propensity evidence in WA or NSW.
With any propensity learnings I might have learned from the Claremont Killer case, now a bit COVID foggy in my mind.


Definition of propensity evidence:

Although there is no universally agreed upon definition of what constitutes similar fact evidence, there is overwhelming support for the view that such evidence is but a species of a broader category of evidence that is commonly referred to as ‘character’, ‘propensity’, or ‘disposition’ evidence. Character (or ‘propensity’ or ‘disposition’) evidence denotes evidence which shows that a person (or thing) has a continuing propensity to behave in a particular manner or act with a particular state of mind. Similar fact evidence, on the other hand, is evidence of specific conduct, usually criminal or otherwise discreditable in nature, which is of the same general character or shares some common feature with the conduct that is the subject of the proceeding, and which is tendered as circumstantial evidence of one or more of the constituent elements of that conduct.
 

kat1234

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Definition of propensity evidence:

Although there is no universally agreed upon definition of what constitutes similar fact evidence, there is overwhelming support for the view that such evidence is but a species of a broader category of evidence that is commonly referred to as ‘character’, ‘propensity’, or ‘disposition’ evidence. Character (or ‘propensity’ or ‘disposition’) evidence denotes evidence which shows that a person (or thing) has a continuing propensity to behave in a particular manner or act with a particular state of mind. Similar fact evidence, on the other hand, is evidence of specific conduct, usually criminal or otherwise discreditable in nature, which is of the same general character or shares some common feature with the conduct that is the subject of the proceeding, and which is tendered as circumstantial evidence of one or more of the constituent elements of that conduct.

“Character (or ‘propensity’ or ‘disposition’) evidence denotes evidence which shows that a person (or thing) has a continuing propensity to behave in a particular manner or act with a particular state of mind.”

And I think this is why FFFC and FMFC don’t want to be found guilty of assault of LT.

Having a propensity to behave in a particular manner.

Being convicted of behaving violently is not a good option for them. **they’ve only been charged **

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the common assault case.
 

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kat1234

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Sounds flimsy, unquantifiable and therefore unfair to me.
“Similar fact evidence, on the other hand, is evidence of specific conduct, usually criminal or otherwise discreditable in nature, which is of the same general character or shares some common feature with the conduct that is the subject of the proceeding, and which is tendered as circumstantial evidence of one or more of the constituent elements of that conduct.”

This seems a bit more quantifiable. Imo.

Maybe 🤔 task force Rosann might seek to use similar fact evidence to help build a circumstantial case in the WT matter if FFFC and FMFC are convicted of assaulting the minor in their care reported recently.

IMO.

Disclaimer: Everyone is innocent 😇 until
proven guilty.
 

CodyRose

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I lived in a very similar setting to Benaroon Drive for a few years, we'd have noticed a random car by sight or even by hearing it on a still day, straight away and made a mental note that wouldn't have slipped mind in the time it took from William's disappearance to being alerted he was missing.

The only thing that's putting me off someone walking in from the cemetery, is that might seem they knew William was going to be there which I think was ruled out.
Yew one can’t hide in country because people notice everything. Whereas city folks don’t notice extra cars as they are used to a busy environment where people are too concerned with their own day to have a broader awareness of their surroundings.
 

CodyRose

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One of the reasons why I think a defence on mental health grounds could backfire spectacularly outside the courts.

The FM also is on the record for saying the FD 'probably fell off her horse' as a reason for the bruising and that seems not to have a thing to do with their/her mental health.
Wouldn’t the riding school have told the parents if the child fell off her horse?
 

Pies1990

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I’m sure there would’ve been an incident report if a child had fallen off a horse at a riding school.

And being an accident, wouldn’t result in a common assault charge and the child being removed from their care. The mental health couldn’t be attributed to that either.
Has to be a lot more to it


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“Character (or ‘propensity’ or ‘disposition’) evidence denotes evidence which shows that a person (or thing) has a continuing propensity to behave in a particular manner or act with a particular state of mind.”

And I think this is why FFFC and FMFC don’t want to be found guilty of assault of LT.

Having a propensity to behave in a particular manner.

Being convicted of behaving violently is not a good option for them. **they’ve only been charged **

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the common assault case.

For many being charged is the same as being guilty. The presumption of innocence is an inconvenient concept best ignored.
 

CodyRose

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hmmm...indeed.

Nice pickup...

1 must wonder if this is of any significance?

Does anyone else think the volume of items found in this search would be unusually large to be random lodgements from one area that they are searching in...For example would you find 30+ items (of cloth / other fabric / replica gun) if you went to your local creek and dug around the banks? This seems such a remote place with seemingly not a lot of through traffic for those items to be there from passing traffic etc...especially the colours of those items of interest - red strands of thread, blue patches of fabric and now this red large cloth...
There is lots of water which flows through when the area has heavy rain.
 

Lady O

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I understand rubbish etc flows through creeks unfortunately, but these items of interest seem dense...blue cloths / red fabric strands / red cloths when they are looking for exactly those colours.

What I am saying, if you look at the topography of those creeks in that area, they are only sourced in that general area in state forest and run down only through that immediate area. The creeks arent running through high traffic flow areas nor are they running through the middle of town. They also seemingly only stretch for around 1-2km down into the river. Its not like the creek is many kilometres long to accumulate those items.

It was just a thought that hopefully some of these items have been relevant to the investigation and there can be closure on this from these efforts.

I don't have a subscription to the DT, but I thought I heard there was a rubbish dump where they were digging. If you google this, and have a sub, you might be able to read the whole article " A massive pit of buried rubbish and debris has become the focus of the expert grave diggers and senior police searching for William Tyrrell. "
 

kat1234

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One of the reasons why I think a defence on mental health grounds could backfire spectacularly outside the courts.

The FM also is on the record for saying the FD 'probably fell off her horse' as a reason for the bruising and that seems not to have a thing to do with their/her mental health.
Do you have a link to the article about the horse?
 

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kat1234

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I don't believe we will hear anymore of what led or the circumstances of what happened for these charges to be laid. The child is under FACS, so all will be suppressed and a closed court on Tuesday. I do have a feeling though that some more serious charges will be laid with these common assault one's IMO
The police didn’t add any additional charges.
 

kat1234

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CodyRose

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I don't have a subscription to the DT, but I thought I heard there was a rubbish dump where they were digging. If you google this, and have a sub, you might be able to read the whole article " A massive pit of buried rubbish and debris has become the focus of the expert grave diggers and senior police searching for William Tyrrell. "
What is the DT?
 

Pies1990

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In those wealthy schools the children have ago at everything - sailing, skiing, riding, music, dance, os excursions she probably did ride a horse.

It’ll be interesting to see how this assault charge against the FP’s plays out. Poses a lot of questions.
Comments made that it was “probably from falling from a horse”.
But child has been removed from care. FP’s potentially fighting it under mental health act.
Does it mean they think the child could be lying, or are the FP’s lying? It comes across as though there was a pretty major argument/disagreement/issue between the FP’s and LT IMO
 

kat1234

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“He said the truth is like that water: it doesn't matter how hard you try to bury it; it'll always find some way back to the surface. It's resilient.”

K.A. Tucker, Burying Water (Burying Water, #1)
Tags: truth


Hoping and praying whatever the truth is, that it will come out soon.
 

CodyRose

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She went to a public school, friend.

I guess that in wealthy areas public schools are full of middle to upper class students anyway. Where I live there is a public primary school I would describe as "highjacked" by the middle class. Full of bright wanting/expected to learn children and no school fees. Great programs. No poor kids. Once the children get to middle school the are enrolled in a private school. My point is maybe all the extracurricular options such as riding were still available given the wealthy demographic and expectations.
 
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