Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Mags98]

How exactly was the Soviet Union better prepared for a conflict against the Nazis by providing the raw materials the Germans needed to wage war?



Yeah, I had a comment responding to that pointing out the Soviets didn't actually kill more people than the Nazis and the Nazis killed a lot more than 7 million people.

Both were fairly fond of ethnic cleansing if I recall as well. They're terrible ideologies that belong in the past.

how does creating a buffer state and delaying the inevitable war allow them to better prepare? think its pretty simple

capitalism is literally built off genocide and imperialism but i guess youll wave that off right?

 

[TheLastCall]

He could have worded it better but what he is saying is correct, it's coming and we all will be exposed to it at some stage. WA is better prepared than the other states and the media is making it look like the end of the world. It wont be great but this is the opportunity to tame the beast finally with a combination of less severe infections and high vaccination rates before winter hits. The time is the best it will be.

I disagree the time is best now. Yes it’s coming, but allowing more time for the 5-11 to get vaccinated and more to get the third does will slow it more. We shouldn’t open up till the east had well and truely passes its peek. And we will have a lot more restrictions than the east coast at lower numbers. We will at least follow the health advice.
A new report is coming and I guarantee it will recommend delaying the opening. With Delta and omicron running wild over east it will recommend 95% vac coverage.
Over 40 deaths today, the numbers are starting to move up.

 

[Taylor]

capitalism is literally built off genocide and imperialism but i guess youll wave that off right?

Capitalism is built off the free exchange of goods and services between people that see value in it for them.

What you're pointing out is that the government should keep out of market manipulation as much as possible, constant protectionism and monopoly exploitation lead to problems the same as worker protections do, ultimately leading to bigger businesses hiring cheaper overseas workers to increase profits. Moving money around the world because the world isn't a level playing field in regards to taxation etc

 

[Mags98]

Capitalism is built off the free exchange of goods and services between people that see value in it for them.

What you're pointing out is that the government should keep out of market manipulation as much as possible, constant protectionism and monopoly exploitation lead to problems the same as worker protections do, ultimately leading to bigger businesses hiring cheaper overseas workers to increase profits. Moving money around the world because the world isn't a level playing field in regards to taxation etc

what how is that what im pointing out?

 

[JBMAN]

I disagree the time is best now. Yes it’s coming, but allowing more time for the 5-11 to get vaccinated and more to get the third does will slow it more. We shouldn’t open up till the east had well and truely passes its peek. And we will have a lot more restrictions than the east coast at lower numbers. We will at least follow the health advice.
A new report is coming and I guarantee it will recommend delaying the opening. With Delta and omicron running wild over east it will recommend 95% vac coverage.
Over 40 deaths today, the numbers are starting to move up.

You make a very good point, could still have both if the 5-11 could be sorted in 2 months and then open as Perth winters are quite mild till June/July. Not sure if the time to vax would be enough, there is a bit of room to juggle it around a bit.

 

[Taylor]

what how is that what im pointing out?

You're drawing a parallel between Communism and Capitalism, I'm suggesting that what you're actually pointing out as the bad things being compared here are the large government actions.

We impart the idea of government with the aura of being all capable and all powerful, but I think if you learn nothing else from the last two years - if you didn't pick it up from Hurricane Katrina etc, is that there is quite a divide between the idea of the good government action can bring and what good it can actually deliver.

Usually when regulation shows up it brings with it a new problem, and that's handy for politicians because they get to be the ones who solve that too - but we need to remember it was them that caused it.

I can refer you to the example of student loan debt in the USA. This is actually a government created problem where access was an issue, so they solved it by creating greater access for people - good thing. The universities didn't have competition outside of their own prestige and now young people can sign away their futures for degrees that don't have a future while the universities are paid ever more because those students have been convinced that a college degree is important, any degree is important and the cost doesn't matter because there are loans for that.

Another is the subprime mortgage crisis caused by fixing an issue of loan accessibility to subprime applicants, the US government made it a subject of judicial review that if your loan book didn't reflect general statistics you were going to be considered biased, so they made sure but all applicants are not equal.

 

[Mags98]

You're drawing a parallel between Communism and Capitalism, I'm suggesting that what you're actually pointing out as the bad things being compared here are the large government actions.

We impart the idea of government with the aura of being all capable and all powerful, but I think if you learn nothing else from the last two years - if you didn't pick it up from Hurricane Katrina etc, is that there is quite a divide between the idea of the good government action can bring and what good it can actually deliver.

Usually when regulation shows up it brings with it a new problem, and that's handy for politicians because they get to be the ones who solve that too - but we need to remember it was them that caused it.

I can refer you to the example of student loan debt in the USA. This is actually a government created problem where access was an issue, so they solved it by creating greater access for people - good thing. The universities didn't have competition outside of their own prestige and now young people can sign away their futures for degrees that don't have a future while the universities are paid ever more because those students have been convinced that a college degree is important, any degree is important and the cost doesn't matter because there are loans for that.

Another is the subprime mortgage crisis caused by fixing an issue of loan accessibility to subprime applicants, the US government made it a subject of judicial review that if your loan book didn't reflect general statistics you were going to be considered biased, so they made sure but all applicants are not equal.

ok i see where youre coming from

but where we differ is i dont view all governments one in the same. im not a fan of liberal democracies, i think theyre a sham and make people think that because they voted 3 years ago between 2 parties that are basically indistinguishable in the big picture that they are free and democratic, and clearly a lot of people arent happy with their governments (see approval ratings across the western world)

i do however believe in a dictatorship of the proletariat, look at the strides china has made in just decades, 90% approval ratings tells the whole story

 

[Taylor]

ok i see where youre coming from

but where we differ is i dont view all governments one in the same. im not a fan of liberal democracies, i think theyre a sham and make people think that because they voted 3 years ago between 2 parties that are basically indistinguishable in the big picture that they are free and democratic, and clearly a lot of people arent happy with their governments (see approval ratings across the western world)

i do however believe in a dictatorship of the proletariat, look at the strides china has made in just decades, 90% approval ratings tells the whole story

I agree that you can get a lot done at the trigger end of a gun, but that also includes a 100% approval rating.
How does North Korea compare?

 

[freo99]

ok i see where youre coming from

but where we differ is i dont view all governments one in the same. im not a fan of liberal democracies, i think theyre a sham and make people think that because they voted 3 years ago between 2 parties that are basically indistinguishable in the big picture that they are free and democratic, and clearly a lot of people arent happy with their governments (see approval ratings across the western world)

i do however believe in a dictatorship of the proletariat, look at the strides china has made in just decades, 90% approval ratings tells the whole story

Lol the strides China has made are because they have allowed a basic free market economy.

Do bear in mind that it is still government directed it is only free up to the point that the party leaders decide.
Remember Fan Bing Bing, Jack Ma + that actress who made the claims of rape.

 

[Taylor]

Pfizer CEO says two doses provide ‘limited protection, if any’

Pfizer’s chief executive has revealed that two doses of its current Covid-19 vaccine offer “very limited protection, if any” against the Omicron variant.

www.news.com.au

This is what I was talking about yesterday when I said Pfizer said two doses doesn't protect you from omicron. So the vaccine effect of protecting against omicron being the reason why it's looking like over 99.986%* of omicron cases aren't ending up in ICU might not be the case.

Now we are all cynical enough to think that a product supplier will want to sell more product, but maybe we should be questioning one side of that narrative if not both since I don't think we can take both as being equal - since if the vaccine is what is protecting people from the worst outcomes in regards to omicron then we are already protected and don't need more of the product and if the product isn't working and we are are miraculously surviving at super elite rates then we don't need the product.

* determined using the 74% of ICU cases being delta, 320 ICU patients and 650,000 cases (all assumed to be Omicron)

Delta variant still being out there poses the threat, but as omicron progresses delta will be pushed right out - unless we are in a bubble where delta first gets a chance to spread locally before omicron in endemic, that's where we will see deaths going off this data.

So for clarity, get vaccinated to protect against death from delta - but omicron might not need any further intervention.

 

[Clems Knee]

So for clarity, get vaccinated to protect against death from delta - but omicron might not need any further intervention.

Yeh, nah. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
If you have the first two shots, get the booster as soon as you can get an appointment.
If you haven’t had any immunisation, grow a brain and get yourself to a pharmacy or doctor and get your first.

It’s a game of statistics. The unvaxxed are still much more likely to have serious (fatal, ICU or long Covid) consequences from omicron. The unboosted are more likely to have serious consequences than the boosted.

 

[Taylor]

Yeh, nah. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
If you have the first two shots, get the booster as soon as you can get an appointment.
If you haven’t had any immunisation, grow a brain and get yourself to a pharmacy or doctor and get your first.

It’s a game of statistics. The unvaxxed are still much more likely to have serious (fatal, ICU or long Covid) consequences from omicron. The unboosted are more likely to have serious consequences than the boosted.

The people who make the stuff don't think two shots does anything and yet omicron is barely having an impact outside of isolation rules and testing.

 

[JBMAN]

Yeh, nah. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
If you have the first two shots, get the booster as soon as you can get an appointment.
If you haven’t had any immunisation, grow a brain and get yourself to a pharmacy or doctor and get your first.

It’s a game of statistics. The unvaxxed are still much more likely to have serious (fatal, ICU or long Covid) consequences from omicron. The unboosted are more likely to have serious consequences than the boosted.

Iimportant also is that the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the number of people in hospital and isolating which has a direct bearing on nursing staff and work force.

 

[Clems Knee]

The people who make the stuff don't think two shots does anything and yet omicron is barely having an impact outside of isolation rules and testing.

Wrong. Again.

 

[Taylor]

Wrong. Again.

Pfizer CEO says two doses provide ‘limited protection, if any’

Pfizer’s chief executive has revealed that two doses of its current Covid-19 vaccine offer “very limited protection, if any” against the Omicron variant.

www.news.com.au

Posted for you, again.

What do you think is really being said there?

 

[Clems Knee]

Pfizer CEO says two doses provide ‘limited protection, if any’

Pfizer’s chief executive has revealed that two doses of its current Covid-19 vaccine offer “very limited protection, if any” against the Omicron variant.

www.news.com.au

Posted for you, again.

What do you think is really being said there?

Not what you think it is. It’s a poorly written article by an employee of Rupert Murdoch.
Try this. You need to get out of the rabbit hole.

'People are having COVID parties, trying to get infected': Experts warn against Omicron complacency

Although early signs indicate Omicron symptoms are milder, epidemiologists warn people against becoming complacent and urge them to protect themselves and others by getting their booster shot.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Taylor]

Not what you think it is. It’s a poorly written article by an employee of Rupert Murdoch.
Try this. You need to get out of the rabbit hole.

'People are having COVID parties, trying to get infected': Experts warn against Omicron complacency

Although early signs indicate Omicron symptoms are milder, epidemiologists warn people against becoming complacent and urge them to protect themselves and others by getting their booster shot.

www.abc.net.au

You've cast off the words of the person providing the product to choose a source that backs you up. I ask again, what do you think he was actually saying in that interview?

The Pfizer person, what were they actually saying? There is video, there are quotes. Let's not even get into the idea that their own data doesn't show the effectiveness of a 4th shot yet some nations are deploying those "on medical advice".

What is that person actually saying?

What does:

“We know that the two doses of the vaccine offer very limited protection, if any,” Dr Bourla said.

Actually mean?

 

[Mags98]

Lol the strides China has made are because they have allowed a basic free market economy.

Do bear in mind that it is still government directed it is only free up to the point that the party leaders decide.
Remember Fan Bing Bing, Jack Ma + that actress who made the claims of rape.

right all these billionaires are held responsible for their actions, corruption has been tackled pretty effectively there. white collar criminals stealing hundreds of millions are actually punished, how terrible!
if only our current governments faced the same!

ETA wish someone would shut up Elon Musk, please Xi get to it

 

[CapitalA]

At least WA have a level of control of covid not available to the rest of Australia. They can/should continue to learn about Omicron, whilst conscious Delta is making up half of the hospitalisations on the east coast.

'A spokesperson for NSW Health said from December 16 to January 4, three quarters of the COVID-positive patients in the ICU had the Delta variant, and 62 per cent were not vaccinated.'

Why you're less likely to get severe COVID during NSW's Omicron surge

Despite COVID-19 hospitalisations in NSW being at their highest point, the risk of severe disease right now is lower than during last year's Delta outbreak, an ABC analysis finds.

www.abc.net.au

Do they say how many of those in ICU had risk factors such as obesity, pre-diabetic etc?

 

[Mags98]

I agree that you can get a lot done at the trigger end of a gun, but that also includes a 100% approval rating.
How does North Korea compare?

wheres the gun? approval has been gained by improving the lives of hundreds of millions of people! how can you insinuate theyve got a gun? its been probably the most peaceful rise of any nation in history! how many wars have they waged the past 60 years? bombs dropped?

north koreas the most heavily sanctioned country in the world, id like to see any form of government survive let alone succeed under their conditons. theyre pretty fairly rated when compared to other developing countries if you stop viewing them as some cartoonishly evil kingdom where laughter and smiling is banned

 

[Taylor]

wheres the gun? approval has been gained by improving the lives of hundreds of millions of people! how can you insinuate theyve got a gun? its been probably the most peaceful rise of any nation in history! how many wars have they waged the past 60 years? bombs dropped?

north koreas the most heavily sanctioned country in the world, id like to see any form of government survive let alone succeed under their conditons. theyre pretty fairly rated when compared to other developing countries if you stop viewing them as some cartoonishly evil kingdom where laughter and smiling is banned

Are we talking about the same China where ethnic groups are rounded up and imprisoned for "re-education" and their social credit system excludes them from society if they do things like ranging from jaywalk or speak badly of the government? Where people disappear if they make the party look bad?

Where there is no freedom of the press and even businesses have to be state controlled?

If you're in mainland China right now I completely agree with you and you've always been a strong advocate for the CCP, really doing great work - but if you're not, you can be free to speak your mind about it.

 

[Clems Knee]

You've cast off the words of the person providing the product to choose a source that backs you up. I ask again, what do you think he was actually saying in that interview?

The Pfizer person, what were they actually saying? There is video, there are quotes. Let's not even get into the idea that their own data doesn't show the effectiveness of a 4th shot yet some nations are deploying those "on medical advice".

What is that person actually saying?

What does:

Actually mean?

It means get your booster shot. It means that over time (like many vaccines) the immune response declines and a third shot will improve it. As the virus mutates, modified vaccines will need to be developed and released.
It’s not a conspiracy by big pharma. This is not a gotcha statement, despite how you’ve interpreted it and how newscorp has presented it for their gullible readers.

Get out of the rabbit hole.

 

[Mags98]

Are we talking about the same China where ethnic groups are rounded up and imprisoned for "re-education" and their social credit system excludes them from society if they do things like ranging from jaywalk or speak badly of the government? Where people disappear if they make the party look bad?

Where there is no freedom of the press and even businesses have to be state controlled?

If you're in mainland China right now I completely agree with you and you've always been a strong advocate for the CCP, really doing great work - but if you're not, you can be free to speak your mind about it.

if you could point me to a better de-radicalisation attempt in the world i would like to see it! id say with certainty it is much more humane than that of the United States attempts
you dont really believe that social credit crap do you? or do you just take everything APSI says as gospel?

and why shouldnt businesses be owned by the state? they should be made to adhere to the government whose role it is to ensure the betterment of society, dont let facebook and other massive conglomerates control your society

 

[Taylor]

It means get your booster shot. It means that over time (like many vaccines) the immune response declines and a third shot will improve it. As the virus mutates, modified vaccines will need to be developed and released.
It’s not a conspiracy by big pharma. This is not a gotcha statement, despite how you’ve interpreted it and how newscorp has presented it for their gullible readers.

Get out of the rabbit hole.

So how do we rationalise that position that 2 doses, which 90%+ of people who currently have omicron have had, but get no protection from it are doing so well in spite of their no protection?

How do we balance the two?

Where's the logical leap from the 2 shots doesn't protect and it looks like we don't need much protection to better get more protection?

Pfizer is happy to announce that they will have a new product to sell you that reduces the risk of omicron from almost zero to almost zero.

 

[Taylor]

if you could point me to a better de-radicalisation attempt in the world i would like to see it! id say with certainty it is much more humane than that of the United States attempts
you dont really believe that social credit crap do you? or do you just take everything APSI says as gospel?

and why shouldnt businesses be owned by the state? they should be made to adhere to the government whose role it is to ensure the betterment of society, dont let facebook and other massive conglomerates control your society

I look at a government that doesn't allow movies in that either show a power above the state or make the state look less than ideal. I see a government that blocks access to information for it's citizens except for tightly controlled little tunnels.

This doesn't scream to me that society is free at all.