Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 315 28.3%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 335 30.1%
  • North

    Votes: 462 41.5%

  • Total voters
    1,112
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Leeda

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I can't believe you have decided to open this can of worms all over again.

No Hawthorn supporter is saying Lewis is ahead of Larkey - they are only arguing that the gap between is not a "giant chasm" as is being made out.

That is being evidenced by Hawthorn supporters looking at goal average, possession average, contested marking average, contested possession average, marking average, tackle average and everything else to make a summation of the players (all of which Lewis leads bar 0.3 in goal average, though Larkey trailed only 12 games ago). Larkey's fantastic second half of the season is what elevates him above Lewis and is beyond what Lewis has produced thus far but it is not a 'giant chasm' as analysis of all the data clearly indicates.

The only argument being made for a 'giant chasm' is using the total of a solitary stat (despite extra games being played due to injury). No other player comparison ever does this. IF it did, Sav Rocca would be considered better than Wayne Carey, Brent Harvey would be considered better than Michael Voss, Ben Dixon better than Cyril Rioli, John Coleman would be rubbish and so on.

The counter examples used (Adrian McAdam, Lenny Hayes vs Jai Newcombe, etc) are completely disingenuous as you are only comparing the average of 1 stat, which is the complete opposite of what Hawthorn fans are trying to do. Not to mention, in the second example, a 300+ gamer is being compared to a 3 gamer which is so far from comparing 2 players with 15 games difference.

Is Larkey ahead at this stage? Yes. Could he remain so for the remainder of his career? Quite possible (perhaps even probable) Is there a 'ginat chasm' between what they have shown as players thus far? No, not really. Certainly not so much that Larkey would be the 2nd tall picked from these 3 clubs and Lewis would not even be top 10, which is what originally started this silly argument.
The written world ….
 

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
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Would Hawthorn swap Worpel for LDU? Yes, everyone (99% of fans wouid)
Would North Melbourne/Anyone in history of the sport swap Larkey for Mitch Lewis? No. Not a single person.

Hawthorn aren’t a young developing team who are young and crap like us, they are just old and crap.

That’s not having a go at Hawthorn, because they are the #1 club in the Comp (without argument), it’s just a statement of fact. They have also lost a game changing and extraordinarily brilliant coach, something that has separated them from other clubs for more than a decade.



Our supporters are bat-sh*t crazy delusional too, make no mistake, but I can’t accept delusional ramblings.

by the reckoning JWS, should have made the TOTC as he played in 2 finals, andwas best on ground in 1. The fact he never played another game, is an irrelevance.

Rule 1, If you can’t get on the park, you’re of no use to anyone irrespective of how good you might be once you return.

He’s basically a slightly more rounded version of Tom Curran (Lewis), in fact I’d say Tom Curran was better than Lewis based on nothing more than his stroll in the mounting yard - fu** the lad could walk well.
Old and crap? We aren’t much older than you. We are one of the youngest in the comp with you Adelaide and Gold Coast.
 
Lol

All hail Adrian McAdam, greatest footballer in history.

totals don’t matter, what ******* drugs are you demented campaigners talking about?

go and have a lie down.
Are you simple?

If you’re going to compare two players who’ve not played even close to the same amount of games, totals mean diddly squat.
 

Nutjob

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and yet, 3 of North's top 4 in their best and fairest are 30+ wile none of Hawthorn's top 9 are!

Wow haha, that’s some selective data. What about the players that rounded out the top 10 for each side? 6 of your top 10 were over 25, where as North only had 3 over 25 in our top 10 last season.

McEvoy
Gunston
Mitchell
Wingard
Breust
Frost
Hartigan
Shiels

Then not far behind

O’meara
Sicily
Impey
Howe

Most of those players are in your top 12 players. The only older players from North’s list I would have in our top 10-12 players would be Goldstein and Cunnington.


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Leeda

Talents B Sharp
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Sep 26, 2012
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I can't believe you have decided to open this can of worms all over again.

No Hawthorn supporter is saying Lewis is ahead of Larkey - they are only arguing that the gap between is not a "giant chasm" as is being made out.

That is being evidenced by Hawthorn supporters looking at goal average, possession average, contested marking average, contested possession average, marking average, tackle average and everything else to make a summation of the players (all of which Lewis leads bar 0.3 in goal average, though Larkey trailed only 12 games ago). Larkey's fantastic second half of the season is what elevates him above Lewis and is beyond what Lewis has produced thus far but it is not a 'giant chasm' as analysis of all the data clearly indicates.

The only argument being made for a 'giant chasm' is using the total of a solitary stat (despite extra games being played due to injury). No other player comparison ever does this. IF it did, Sav Rocca would be considered better than Wayne Carey, Brent Harvey would be considered better than Michael Voss, Ben Dixon better than Cyril Rioli, John Coleman would be rubbish and so on.

The counter examples used (Adrian McAdam, Lenny Hayes vs Jai Newcombe, etc) are completely disingenuous as you are only comparing the average of 1 stat, which is the complete opposite of what Hawthorn fans are trying to do. Not to mention, in the second example, a 300+ gamer is being compared to a 3 gamer which is so far from comparing 2 players with 15 games difference.

Is Larkey ahead at this stage? Yes. Could he remain so for the remainder of his career? Quite possible (perhaps even probable) Is there a 'ginat chasm' between what they have shown as players thus far? No, not really. Certainly not so much that Larkey would be the 2nd tall picked from these 3 clubs and Lewis would not even be top 10, which is what originally started this silly argument.
Turn around and I had a hammer …
 

Leeda

Talents B Sharp
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As of March 2021 i voted North since i hadn't see the youth that ended up debuting over 2021 and our youth we've just got through this draft (MSD/PSD) aswell.

I'd probably have North and us pretty close while Adelaide are slightly behind.

Think if you look by position.

Our defense is clearly the best.
Norths midfield is clearly the best.
All have decent forwardlines, i'd say North/Hawks just ahead in this.

While Adelaide are pretty balanced all round.

Also rucks would be a mix of us and Adelaide (we have two young rucks who have shown to be talented) with North having some talent but probably a little less proven and also still have Goldy no1 ruck while Adelaide have ROB as their main ruck for a while but he's 26.
Dynamic
 

Leeda

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Take my word for it. He will be a star.

I live in SA. I am a south Adelaide Panthers fan in the sanfl. The guy is a versatile mid.

barnrokn your mob North Melbourne chose wisely on getting this bloke at pick 1.

I was at all 3 finals south played at adelaide oval. beat north in the Elim final then beat norwood in the semi final then lost to Glenelg in the preliminary final.

He performed well in all 3 finals. He nearly tore Glenelg apart in the final quarter of that preliminary final.
I am party to the free …
 
Yeah, I rate him a lot higher then Jeka.

With that though, you won't see me or other North supporters professing him to be a future star, which cannot be said for Jeka amongst Hawks nuffs.
See if you can find one post in here that says he’s a future star?

You got your knickers in a twist because someone said he had the highest ceiling of himself, Lewis and Koschitzke, and when he was viewed as a possible top 5 pick as a 17yr old it’s really not that hard to fathom, when he then hits form like the below as a 19yr old at Box Hill.

 
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Psicosis

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See if you can find one post in here that says he’s a future star?

You got your knickers in a twist because someone said he had the highest ceiling of himself, Lewis and Koschitzke, and when he was viewed as a possible top
5 pick as a 17yr old it’s really not that hard to fathom, when he then hits form like the below as a 19yr old at Box Hill.



Possible top 5 pick?

1641954061442.png
 

BIGHAWK23

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Nov 7, 2019
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Yeah, I rate him a lot higher then Jeka.

With that though, you won't see me or other North supporters professing him to be a future star, which cannot be said for Jeka amongst Hawks nuffs.
Find where someone called him a future star, and the fact that you rate Combden higher then Jeka, is concerning, because if you looked from a pure non-biased perspective, Jeka has shown more then Combden, dosent necessarily mean Jeka will be better, but in raw numbers, Jeka is a better prospect on current output

Either have a long way to go to be proven talents or AFL level players
 
Correct.

If you know anything about him, he slid massively in his draft year.



Emerson Jeka
Height/Weight: 196cm/90kg
Date of Birth: 18/9/01
Club: Vic Metro/Western Jets
Position: Key forward


One of the leading tall forward prospects in next year's pool. Jeka is a big and strongly-built goalkicker who is also a long and booming kick. He will need to work on elements of his game next year but has the size and stature, plus the talent, to be able to stand out as a marking option in attack.
 

Psicosis

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Correct.

If you know anything about him, he slid massively in his draft year.



Emerson Jeka
Height/Weight: 196cm/90kg
Date of Birth: 18/9/01
Club: Vic Metro/Western Jets
Position: Key forward


One of the leading tall forward prospects in next year's pool. Jeka is a big and strongly-built goalkicker who is also a long and booming kick. He will need to work on elements of his game next year but has the size and stature, plus the talent, to be able to stand out as a marking option in attack.

Passed by every club multiple times says it all really.
 
Passed by every club multiple times says it all really.
So what does the 19 goals in 4 games say?

Has Comben even played four games in the last two years?
 

Sphynx

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Correct.

If you know anything about him, he slid massively in his draft year.



Emerson Jeka
Height/Weight: 196cm/90kg
Date of Birth: 18/9/01
Club: Vic Metro/Western Jets
Position: Key forward


One of the leading tall forward prospects in next year's pool. Jeka is a big and strongly-built goalkicker who is also a long and booming kick. He will need to work on elements of his game next year but has the size and stature, plus the talent, to be able to stand out as a marking option in attack.

Jeka didn’t slide. rofl.

He was hideous in his top age year.

Sliding intimates he didn’t deserve where he went, which he most certainly did.
 

BIGHAWK23

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Jeka didn’t slide. rofl.

He was hideous in his top age year.

Sliding intimates he didn’t deserve where he went, which he most certainly did.
If that's the basis on Jeka's current output deserving where he was picked

Combden should be kicking the dew off the ground for Dandy Redlegs

Jeka aint some bargain superstar at this stage, either is Combden, far from it
 
Oct 16, 2003
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Wow haha, that’s some selective data. What about the players that rounded out the top 10 for each side? 6 of your top 10 were over 25, where as North only had 3 over 25 in our top 10 last season.

McEvoy
Gunston
Mitchell
Wingard
Breust
Frost
Hartigan
Shiels

Then not far behind

O’meara
Sicily
Impey
Howe

Most of those players are in your top 12 players. The only older players from North’s list I would have in our top 10-12 players would be Goldstein and Cunnington.


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Haha, yes..I was selective indeed.

You may not have have Hall and Ziebell in your best dozen players but the fact they are both top 4 in your B&F suggests otherwise.

I also don't consider 25 to be 'old'. Football forecasting can be predicted at best 1-2 season in advance. With the significance of list and form changes that occur in a 24 month period, predicting any further than that is futile. As such, 25 years (and even up to 28 years olds) do not pose concerns for me as there is a possibility they are still part of the side when they next contend, particularly now that good players often play well into their early thirties. It is the 30+ year old brigade that poor teams essentially need to 'overlook' in these assessments as there is very little likelihood they will be meaningful contributors when the side next contends.

For Hawthorn, that is:

Gunston - quality player but didn't play a game last season anyway.
Breust - quality small forward who was 11th in the B&F
McEvoy - pretty much cooked ruck who was 14th in the B&F
Shiels - B grade mid was 10th in the B&F
Hartigan - journeyman key back - 13th in the B&F

and for North:

Cunnington - A grade mid and best player - 2nd in B&F
Goldstein - A grade ruck - not in top 10 of B&F
Hall - quality rebounder (and closest player to AA) - 3rd in B&F
Ziebell - I would say B grade and close to cooked but is captain, was 4th in B&F and in the top 3 ball winners.

What I will say, however, is that players in the 25-28 year old bracket are not likely to improve significantly, whereas players in the 18-23 bracket are likely to do so. It is clear Hawthorn have more quality in the 25-28 bracket than North and North have more exposed quality in the younger bracket at this stage.
 
Oct 16, 2003
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On the Jeka v Comben 'debate':

Jeka has played 4 AFL games without doing a whole lot.
Comben has played 1 AFL game without doing a whole lot.

Jeka was a rookie pick, Comben was a 2nd rounder.

Jeka has been pretty dominant at VFL level
Comben has played 1 VFL game due to injuries these past 2 years.

Everything else is baseless conjecture and supporter bias. Perhaps we can park the back and forth until these players have played 20-50 games (assuming they do) instead of arguing back and forth with essentially no basis whatsoever?
 
Jeka didn’t slide. rofl.

He was hideous in his top age year.

Sliding intimates he didn’t deserve where he went, which he most certainly did.
What part of “slid massively in his draft year” is incorrect?
 
Take my word for it. He will be a star.

I live in SA. I am a south Adelaide Panthers fan in the sanfl. The guy is a versatile mid.

barnrokn your mob North Melbourne chose wisely on getting this bloke at pick 1.

I was at all 3 finals south played at adelaide oval. beat north in the Elim final then beat norwood in the semi final then lost to Glenelg in the preliminary final.

He performed well in all 3 finals. He nearly tore Glenelg apart in the final quarter of that preliminary final.
Can second that, given I support South Adelaide in the SANFL and watched the boy play numerous times across last year as well. I reckon Nobes though will start off utilising him as a forward-midfielder at the beginning of his AFL career given his capability up forward, similar to how Rayner was used for us in his first year. However, I expect that in the next 2-3 years, he will mainly just play in the midfield 90% of the time and spend rest minutes in the forward 50 similar to players like Dangerfield, Martin & Fyfe in the AFL now (once he overtakes the experienced midfielders at the club like Cunnington, Greenwood & Polec).

Regardless though, the future looks very bright over at Arden St for the next 5-10 years at least, with the future generation of players at the club (Horne-Francis, Phillips, Powell, Larkey, Taylor, Davies-Uniacke, Thomas, Coleman-Jones, Bonar, McKay, Lazzo, Zurhaar, etc) + the quality experienced players as well (Cunnington, Greenwood, Stephenson, Ziebell, Corr, Goldstein, etc) and a highly smart & intelligent coach in David Noble, reaching finals or the top end of the ladder might be a little too high to dream in 2022, but they should be around the 8-ball in 2023 before making finals in 2024 at the latest IMO and continuing that success onwards in the future.
 
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