Autopsy How to Motivate Beta Males to be Ferocious and Ruthless

[Jonts]

Because that’s my theory. The failure to be switched on when there was everything to play for is the issue. The beta male stuff is my theory. It might be crap but noone has offered a better theory to explain why our players were not sufficiently motivated for the most important game of their lives to date.

I think I said in the first post that if Hinkley intentionally picks nice guys and moves on dickheads and trouble makers, he needs to know how to get the nice guys to the level required. That would be his fault.

But if, as most think, my theory is 100% crap, then the blame falls off Hinkley and on to the players because they then have no excuse for that first quarter debacle that cost us a season. No coach should have to motivate a team for a prelim (absent some other factor like my beta theory). Players who suffered the disappointment of a lost home prelim by 6 points, 11 months earlier, who gave up the first 4 goals to the same team two games ago, should be self motivated enough not to squib contests in the first quarter without a coach telling them ”don’t squib contests”.

The only fact in this is we came up against a side who wanted it more. Why? My beta theory gives the players some sort of excuse and puts the blame on Hinkley. Without the beta theory (or some other theory) the only answer is we have a squad in which the fire does not burn strong enough.

The team has been s**t with swinging momentum for a long time

It wasn't that they didnt show up for the first 20 minutes. They just can't wrestle back the momentum. How many times have we come back from 4+ goals down in the past 5 years?

After the first 8 minutes of game time they had kicked 4 goals and had 84% time in forward half. Port don't wrestle back the momentum after that


I can't see your they put the blame on hinkley

They beat Western bulldogs less than a month prior and won a qualifying final, do they not give hinkley the credit when they win and blame him when he loses
As much as I don't like him I beleive he does still have this playing group believing


Also it shows a lack of understanding that "
The only fact in this is we came up against a side who wanted it more"


How about the homework they did into our mids and especailly lycett? We went aggressive early (Drew on the bench) and got out gunned and out attacked by better clearance work (by the time Ollie kicks the first goal for us - albeit from a clearance, port are down by 8 in clearances)

Then once the momentmum started this group does show a mental weakness in being able to swing it, (what I think comes from the way we need mass I50 to score)

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

Send them down Hanson road with $20 and no frangers dog eat Dog world will make a man out of them

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

You can take the piss out of this thread all you like, we definitely lack some mongrel in our squad. Charlie likes to play it up but he gives away free kicks more than he imposes himself. "Chadbro" was one of the best backs going around and he had the talent and guts to back up the attitude. A bit of strut can help give the whole team a confidence edge when its backed up with performance.

Jose Mourinho demands that his team plays like c#nts and he knows a bit about winning. People can sh#t on this thread all they like but I really can't name a player within our team that shows that attitude.
"We exist to make the community proud" sounds nice but it only dilutes the "We exist to win Premierships" mantra which is beyond laughable when associated with our AFL history.
We need a few c#nts in our team, those that hate losing more than they like winning.

 

[El_Scorcho]

When you have 1 mentally fragile player without much of a thirst for the contest, the player can be blamed. When the entire team has been doing it for a decade or more, it's a systemic issue.

If we have a coach and president who hate losing, the players will hate losing too. At the moment our coach certainly doesn't have a fire burning within him and our president has other priorities because he doesn't understand what makes a football club successful on field.

 

[snozulu]

Send them down Hanson road with $20 and no frangers dog eat Dog world will make a man out of them

they arn't the future father sons we want.

 

[Doctor Feel]

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Wtf is a fenmale? Do I want to google that?

 

[Grave Danger]

Wtf is a fenmale?

"Don't ask us"

 

[VineValerian]

Jose Mourinho demands that his team plays like c#nts and he knows a bit about winning. People can sh#t on this thread all they like but I really can't name a player within our team that shows that attitude.
"We exist to make the community proud" sounds nice but it only dilutes the "We exist to win Premierships" mantra which is beyond laughable when associated with our AFL history.
We need a few c#nts in our team, those that hate losing more than they like winning.

More campaigners for PAFC

I'm with this!

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

9

More campaigners for PAFC

I'm with this!

I look at the 2004 Premiership side and just off the top of my head think of players like Pickett, Carr, Brogan, Hardwick and Chad Cornes. They played with physical aggression and with a mindset of not caring if they annoyed or got under the skin of the opposition or their supporters....we lack that in the current squad.

 

[simba_]

can't be everyones second favorite team if we bash up their favorite teams players can we?

 

[El_Scorcho]

I look at the 2004 Premiership side and just off the top of my head think of players like Pickett, Carr, Brogan, Hardwick and Chad Cornes. They played with physical aggression and with a mindset of not caring if they annoyed or got under the skin of the opposition or their supporters....we lack that in the current squad.

I think this is a bit of a myth. Dixon, Lycett, Butters, Jonas, Drew, Jones, SPP. We've got plenty of players who know how to throw their body around and are absolutely willing to do so when they're motivated and confident.

The fact that we don't do it often enough is because teams take on the personality of their coaches.

That personality can absolutely change over time. Under Choco we went from flighty to desperate and battle hardened to experimental hipster doofus. Under Primus we went for humble, because for some reason he thought humble was a good personality for a footy team. Under Hinkley we've gone from never giving up in the first couple of seasons to "can't somebody else do it" since 2015.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Everyone is laughing at my premise for this thread but nobody has addressed the core issue- we were not as motivated as the Western Bulldogs in the first quarter of a prelim despite having lost a home prelim 11 months before.

Why not?

Don't blame Hinkley- any playing group that can’t motivate themselves for a prelim 11 months after that Richmond game has to tell us why themselves. That debacle falls on the 22 we sent out in the first quarter. Why did they fail?

Coaching

 

[El_Scorcho]

Everyone is laughing at my premise for this thread but nobody has addressed the core issue- we were not as motivated as the Western Bulldogs in the first quarter of a prelim despite having lost a home prelim 11 months before.

Why not?

Don't blame Hinkley- any playing group that can’t motivate themselves for a prelim 11 months after that Richmond game has to tell us why themselves. That debacle falls on the 22 we sent out in the first quarter. Why did they fail?

Come on. You're talking like that performance was out of the blue. We've been doing this for 7 seasons.

The players don't show up once, absolutely it's their fault.

The players don't show up in big games for 7 long years with no key decision maker ever held accountable for that, despite almost the entire list turning over in that time? It's a systemic issue. It's the fault of the leaders for not correcting it, and after this much failure, that goes right to the top. Koch and Hinkley.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I can't believe we're still reading "It's all on the players" theories 7 years into this absolute garbage.

Ken Hinkley is responsible for getting these guys motivated. He's been clearly failing at that for 7-8 years. Richo is responsible for ensuring that the head coach is doing his job, the coach should have been sacked 4 years ago. Koch is responsible for ensuring that the CEO is doing his job, and if you tried to talk to Koch about accountability he'd have to go and find a dictionary.

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

I think this is a bit of a myth. Dixon, Lycett, Butters, Jonas, Drew, Jones, SPP. We've got plenty of players who know how to throw their body around and are absolutely willing to do so when they're motivated and confident.

The fact that we don't do it often enough is because teams take on the personality of their coaches.

That personality can absolutely change over time. Under Choco we went from flighty to desperate and battle hardened to experimental hipster doofus. Under Primus we went for humble, because for some reason he thought humble was a good personality for a footy team. Under Hinkley we've gone from never giving up in the first couple of seasons to "can't somebody else do it" since 2015.

I think your correct regarding the impact of Hinkley to an extent however however the type of player we lack plays that way regardless of the coach because it's intrinsic within them.
Pickett, Carr, Brogan, Hardwick never changed their approach throughout their careers, Chad Cornes developed as his attitude as his career progressed and didn't mind being viewed negatively outside of Alberton especially the Showdowns when he'd openly show his hate for the Crows and their supporters.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I think your correct regarding the impact of Hinkley to an extent however however the type of player we lack plays that way regardless of the coach because it's intrinsic within them.
Pickett, Carr, Brogan, Hardwick never changed their approach throughout their careers, Chad Cornes developed as his attitude as his career progressed and didn't mind being viewed negatively outside of Alberton especially the Showdowns when he'd openly show his hate for the Crows and their supporters.

All of those guys bar maybe Hardwick still played in insipid, mentally weak sides throughout their career though. Some of them just went the knuckle a little bit more when things weren't going there way, which would result in suspensions if they did the same in the current era.

I don't think the guys I mentioned are ever taking a physical backwards step. They are just better able to turn their physicality into physical dominance when confident and trusting in their teammates and gameplan. That sort of ruthlessness can only be instilled by coaches and leaders, and we just don't do it consistently.

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

All of those guys bar maybe Hardwick still played in insipid, mentally weak sides throughout their career though. Some of them just went the knuckle a little bit more when things weren't going there way, which would result in suspensions if they did the same in the current era.

I don't think the guys I mentioned are ever taking a physical backwards step. They are just better able to turn their physicality into physical dominance when confident and trusting in their teammates and gameplan. That sort of ruthlessness can only be instilled by coaches and leaders, and we just don't do it consistently.

I'm not suggesting going the knuckle unless it's the Grand Final when I wouldn't question it within reason.
I'm sure there's a highlights package out there of the 2004 G.F and I can think of multiple instances when the attitude of a few players made the team stand taller:

* The media question weather Hardwick should have even been selected yet by half time he was the leading possession winner out of both teams. Not only that he annoyed and pestered Brisbane in giving away undisciplinany free kicks.
* Chad Cornes punched Jonathon Browns knee prior to the first bounce, it wasn't much but it wobbled his knee a little, it was a little dirty but so be it.
* Josh Carr pestered and annoyed Brisbane to the extent that Jonathon Brown landed one on his chin. I can also recall him standing over Akermanis who was on the ground with a raised fist signalling he was going to punch his face.
* Dominic Cassisi pushed Akermanis into the ground after a costly turn over just to rub it in a little bit more.
* Wakelin moved his head enough for it not to be knocked into the 5th row of the crowd. More importantly he stayed switched on after Lynch went postal.
* Pickett just made his teammates walk taller whilst adjudged Best on Ground.

This group has shown on too many occasions that they just don't have that mindset with maybe Lycett as the exception. Jonas is more clumsy with his reputation based more on his late hit on the West Coast player (Gaff perhaps).
Dixon has a thankless task but doesn't play as well against the big sides.
SPP looked early in his career that he was going to be the player but his career has stagnated.

The game when Hinkley rightly or wrongly stated we were going to terrorise Lachie Neil, what happened, we were embarrassed within a quarter at home.

 

[VineValerian]

I'm not suggesting going the knuckle unless it's the Grand Final when I wouldn't question it within reason.
I'm sure there's a highlights package out there of the 2004 G.F and I can think of multiple instances when the attitude of a few players made the team stand taller:

* The media question weather Hardwick should have even been selected yet by half time he was the leading possession winner out of both teams. Not only that he annoyed and pestered Brisbane in giving away undisciplinany free kicks.
* Chad Cornes punched Jonathon Browns knee prior to the first bounce, it wasn't much but it wobbled his knee a little, it was a little dirty but so be it.
* Josh Carr pestered and annoyed Brisbane to the extent that Jonathon Brown landed one on his chin. I can also recall him standing over Akermanis who was on the ground with a raised fist signalling he was going to punch his face.
* Dominic Cassisi pushed Akermanis into the ground after a costly turn over just to rub it in a little bit more.
* Wakelin moved his head enough for it not to be knocked into the 5th row of the crowd. More importantly he stayed switched on after Lynch went postal.
* Pickett just made his teammates walk taller whilst adjudged Best on Ground.

This group has shown on too many occasions that they just don't have that mindset with maybe Lycett as the exception. Jonas is more clumsy with his reputation based more on his late hit on the West Coast player (Gaff perhaps).
Dixon has a thankless task but doesn't play as well against the big sides.
SPP looked early in his career that he was going to be the player but his career has stagnated.

The game when Hinkley rightly or wrongly stated we were going to terrorise Lachie Neil, what happened, we were embarrassed within a quarter at home.

Never advertise your game plan beforehand. That was Hincklemeister's mistake there!

Yeah. Remember Carr versus the Loyons was cocked, loaded and ready to pulverise Acker. Thought the better of it and walked away, but Acker definitely soiled his shorts in that moment if you see the look on his face. He thought his Armegeddon had arrived. Played no constructive part in the game from there on in. Brownie tried to put him into next July - Josh just played on like nothing happened.

That team was TOUGH. They ended up intimidating the intimidators that day.

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

Never advertise your game plan beforehand. That was Hincklemeister's mistake there!

Yeah. Remember Carr versus the Loyons was cocked, loaded and ready to pulverise Acker. Thought the better of it and walked away, but Acker definitely soiled his shorts in that moment if you see the look on his face. He thought his Armegeddon had arrived. Played no constructive part in the game from there on in. Brownie tried to put him into next July - Josh just played on like nothing happened.

That team was TOUGH. They ended up intimidating the intimidators that day.

Never advertise your game plan beforehand. That was Hincklemeister's mistake there!

Yeah. Remember Carr versus the Loyons was cocked, loaded and ready to pulverise Acker. Thought the better of it and walked away, but Acker definitely soiled his shorts in that moment if you see the look on his face. He thought his Armegeddon had arrived. Played no constructive part in the game from there on in. Brownie tried to put him into next July - Josh just played on like nothing happened.

That team was TOUGH. They ended up intimidating the intimidators that day.

There's a 2:40 clip on You Tube called '2004 Grand Final Fights'...it captures the mindset of Port on that day, I somehow bugger up downloads, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I reckon we should just attack every game like Mutant League Hockey. Just take the tyre iron, chainsaw and axe to all the opposition players until there is a medical forfeit through lack of alive players.

 

[Duck Farmer]

The game when Hinkley rightly or wrongly stated we were going to terrorise Lachie Neil, what happened

Cam Sutcliffe happened.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'm not suggesting going the knuckle unless it's the Grand Final when I wouldn't question it within reason.
I'm sure there's a highlights package out there of the 2004 G.F and I can think of multiple instances when the attitude of a few players made the team stand taller:

* The media question weather Hardwick should have even been selected yet by half time he was the leading possession winner out of both teams. Not only that he annoyed and pestered Brisbane in giving away undisciplinany free kicks.
* Chad Cornes punched Jonathon Browns knee prior to the first bounce, it wasn't much but it wobbled his knee a little, it was a little dirty but so be it.
* Josh Carr pestered and annoyed Brisbane to the extent that Jonathon Brown landed one on his chin. I can also recall him standing over Akermanis who was on the ground with a raised fist signalling he was going to punch his face.
* Dominic Cassisi pushed Akermanis into the ground after a costly turn over just to rub it in a little bit more.
* Wakelin moved his head enough for it not to be knocked into the 5th row of the crowd. More importantly he stayed switched on after Lynch went postal.
* Pickett just made his teammates walk taller whilst adjudged Best on Ground.

This group has shown on too many occasions that they just don't have that mindset with maybe Lycett as the exception. Jonas is more clumsy with his reputation based more on his late hit on the West Coast player (Gaff perhaps).
Dixon has a thankless task but doesn't play as well against the big sides.
SPP looked early in his career that he was going to be the player but his career has stagnated.

The game when Hinkley rightly or wrongly stated we were going to terrorise Lachie Neil, what happened, we were embarrassed within a quarter at home.

The 2004 guys who were setting the tone in terms of physicality were all around for instances like the 01/02/03 finals and 07 as well. Right up until the first bounce in the 2004 GF, there were people convinced those guys didn't have the mindset either.

In 2004 we were desperate, Choco was desperate, the premiership was the only thing that mattered and we were not going to be pushed off of our goal. Choco has an enormous ego and his entire legacy was on the line. Losing was not an option. You could feel that throughout the season. Most of the same team then missed the finals the following season because that desperation had gone, because Choco's legacy had been secured and he could go back to his standard hipster doofus experimentation and flakiness.

Even hard nuts need a coach who can motivate them to run through brick walls, or their resolve won't hold. It's a tale as old as time.

 

[Doctor Feel]

 

[VineValerian]

There's a 2:40 clip on You Tube called '2004 Grand Final Fights'...it captures the mindset of Port on that day, I somehow bugger up downloads, any help would be greatly appreciated.

No Port player shirked a contest that day.
That was one tough, committed team of hombres.
Brisbane tried to go the knuckle, we stood up to it - and gave it back ................. with interest.
Brisbane buckled.

Ever since they've whinged and bleated that they were robbed by the AFL programming.