Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Are you for or against Mandatory Vaccinations

  • For

    Votes: 292 57.4%
  • Against

    Votes: 221 43.4%

  • Total voters
    509
Jul 18, 2010
10,045
15,213
Australia.
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
West Perth.
No that’s the plan to deal with public health - isn’t that the big issue ?

Covid as a proportion of deaths in this country is minuscule - why do 2-3000 deaths from Covid become more important ? It’s treated like some mystical beast

Authoritarian government telling you exactly how you should live to keep us safe

Next up - contact sport is banned because it causes too many broken bones in hospitals on the weekend
Because, if it wasnt for public health measures, the "minuscule" deaths would be very much higher.....
What do you think may have happened to Australian covid death numbers if we had just let her rip back in April 2020?? Insignificant number of deaths??
Even now with opening and a well vaccinated population, deaths are still rising.
Using 2-3000 deaths as an example of covid not been that serious is counterintuitive if its not acknowledged that the reason deaths are lower than other countries is due to our public health actions. Its like those people on McGowans facebook who write "wow 9 WA deaths, some pandemic"....without appreciating the fact that WA has been largely isolated and protected by public heath measures.
 
Aug 25, 2005
11,640
16,684
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
No that’s the plan to deal with public health - isn’t that the big issue ?


No. There's lots of issues at play. Public health, personal health, social impact, economic impact, education - all need shirt, medium and long term consideration. They require urgent response during a pandemic.

The vaccination program addresses all of these to varying degrees.

Fat people losing weight probably impacts none of them in the short term, only 1 in the medium term and potentially just 2 in the long term.

Covid as a proportion of deaths in this country is minuscule - why do 2-3000 deaths from Covid become more important ? It’s treated like some mystical beast
So this is where the discussion inevitably becomes moronic.

I can't comprehend the lack of intellect that lead to this type of conclusion.

We locked down internally, locked down externally, and have amongst the highest Vax rates in the world.

That's why deaths are low. Countries that didn't/couldn't do that - had 100s of 1000s of deaths.

The logic that we shouldn't do anything because our death rates are low, is astonishing in its idiocy. The logic that somehow our low death rates are evidence that we overreacted is even worse.

Next up - contact sport is banned because it causes too many broken bones in hospitals on the weekend
Again - what problem are you trying to solve?
 
Jul 18, 2010
10,045
15,213
Australia.
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
West Perth.
Next up - contact sport is banned because it causes too many broken bones in hospitals on the weekend
If there were a million AFL players and 2-3000 of them in a 2 year period all ended up with fractured C-spines after taking screamers and falling onto their heads, you dont think questions would be asked about how best to manage the risks?. Even worse, say 2-3000 of them died from hangman's fractures in 2 years....
 

Lsta062

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 15, 2014
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I used to be very pro-vaccine throughout COVID and am double-vaccinated. It’s not that I no longer am, but I’m just over the whole thing. It’s clear that the federal and state governments here in Australia do not have the competency required to deal with the COVID pandemic whether it is their fault or not.

Also, Pfizer produced vaccines and the boss is now admitting that it is likely not that effective on Omicron.

The availability of RATs is a mess. The PCR testing is a mess. Contact tracing is a mess. Businesses are still being crippled financially because of this. The whole situation has turned into a mess.

Just take the L and move on. Whatever happens to our hospital system will happen. Whatever happens to us as individuals will happen. Whatever happens to our family will happen. We as a society just have to move on now and stop worrying about COVID mandates (e.g. vaccine, testing requirements, self-isolation requirements etc.) and handle it like we handle the flu and other viruses (e.g. optional COVID vaccines/booster shots + no fixed isolation requirements). Yes, COVID’s worse than the flu, but we obviously can’t stop it.

I’d rather everyone that’s symptomatic manage their symptoms at home like we did with other viruses in the past and go to the hospital when required. We’ll just have to learn from our incompetence this time around so that we can handle a spread of disease better next time there is a pandemic. We can also look at investing more resources into our health care systems instead of COVID tests so that we have more health care workers and facilities to deal with issues like this.

All I’m saying is that we’ve reached a time where we pull the plug on trying to fight what seems like a losing battle.
 
Because, if it wasnt for public health measures, the "minuscule" deaths would be very much higher.....
What do you think may have happened to Australian covid death numbers if we had just let her rip back in April 2020?? Insignificant number of deaths??
Even now with opening and a well vaccinated population, deaths are still rising.
Using 2-3000 deaths as an example of covid not been that serious is counterintuitive if its not acknowledged that the reason deaths are lower than other countries is due to our public health actions. Its like those people on McGowans facebook who write "wow 9 WA deaths, some pandemic"....without appreciating the fact that WA has been largely isolated and protected by public heath measures.

hmV3936AnbyusZU_9_yZC-pXK1E-0ssrMk8UdEb1Vx0.png


As a massive Futurama fan, this quote has always stuck with me whenever I'm confronted with posts like the one you replied to.
 

Profop

Club Legend
Oct 20, 2021
1,606
5,177
AFL Club
Richmond
I used to be very pro-vaccine throughout COVID and am double-vaccinated. It’s not that I no longer am, but I’m just over the whole thing. It’s clear that the federal and state governments here in Australia do not have the competency required to deal with the COVID pandemic whether it is their fault or not.

Also, Pfizer produced vaccines and the boss is now admitting that it is likely not that effective on Omicron.

The availability of RATs is a mess. The PCR testing is a mess. Contact tracing is a mess. Businesses are still being crippled financially because of this. The whole situation has turned into a mess.

Just take the L and move on. Whatever happens to our hospital system will happen. Whatever happens to us as individuals will happen. Whatever happens to our family will happen. We as a society just have to move on now and stop worrying about COVID mandates (e.g. vaccine, testing requirements, self-isolation requirements etc.) and handle it like we handle the flu and other viruses (e.g. optional COVID vaccines/booster shots + no fixed isolation requirements). Yes, COVID’s worse than the flu, but we obviously can’t stop it.

I’d rather everyone that’s symptomatic manage their symptoms at home like we did with other viruses in the past and go to the hospital when required. We’ll just have to learn from our incompetence this time around so that we can handle a spread of disease better next time there is a pandemic. We can also look at investing more resources into our health care systems instead of COVID tests so that we have more health care workers and facilities to deal with issues like this.

All I’m saying is that we’ve reached a time where we pull the plug on trying to fight what seems like a losing battle.
Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard
 
Here's hoping all of us who were forced into taking the jab do not come down with any long term side effects.

To clarify - do you also hold fears of the long term effects of COVID infection? It's not much older than the vaccines used to fight it...
 
Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard

If my mother who is immunocompromised but still took the vaccines and booster as soon as she was able to, is unable to receive treatment because some moronic anti-vaxxer is taking her spot in hospital, I will damn well be f***ing pissed. Lots of selfish campaigners in this thread.
 
Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard
he has a point though; it has got to a point where I can't see anything that can reasonably be done having an impact on what is coming. Those attending ED in VIC are already receiving subpar care, with nurses now working 1:4 ratios, prolonged delays to ambulance offload..
 
Jul 18, 2010
10,045
15,213
Australia.
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
West Perth.
How do we know whether or not vaccinated people will still suffer long covid? We don't yet know that.
Given some of the evidence from long term studies on people who had SARS-CoV (the first one), I am happy to take my chances with the vaccine as opposed to risk long term effects from the virus and the viral treatment....
 

My Tilly

Premium Gold
Jun 30, 2018
9,815
11,848
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Geelong
Given some of the evidence from long term studies on people who had SARS-CoV (the first one), I am happy to take my chances with the vaccine as opposed to risk long term effects from the virus and the viral treatment....

I am not arguing against what you say.
I am just saying we don't know what long term effects of mRNA vaccination could potentially have on our bodies in time. Odds are very likely nil.
 
How do we know whether or not vaccinated people will still suffer long covid? We don't yet know that.

It's not a cogent argument against vaccination, though, because the disease it's fighting against is not much older than the virus itself.

We already have plenty of peer-reviewed evidence of 'long COVID', and plenty of peer-reviewed evidence (as if you needed it) of COVID itself. Logically, a reasoned person would take their chances on the vaccine and not on infection.
 

Profop

Club Legend
Oct 20, 2021
1,606
5,177
AFL Club
Richmond
he has a point though; it has got to a point where I can't see anything that can reasonably be done having an impact on what is coming. Those attending ED in VIC are already receiving subpar care, with nurses now working 1:4 ratios, prolonged delays to ambulance offload..
What we are doing now is having a positive impact. Dropping off will only make things worse and things can most certainly get worse we have already seen that in places like India
 
Aug 25, 2005
11,640
16,684
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Here's hoping all of us who were forced into taking the jab do not come down with any long term side effects.
Of course everyone hopes that. But to be frank, I'd imagine everyone expects that too.

I mean, what sort of side effects are there expected to be 2 years after getting an immune boosting vaccine?
 
Last edited:
Aug 25, 2005
11,640
16,684
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I used to be very pro-vaccine throughout COVID and am double-vaccinated. It’s not that I no longer am, but I’m just over the whole thing. It’s clear that the federal and state governments here in Australia do not have the competency required to deal with the COVID pandemic whether it is their fault or not.

Also, Pfizer produced vaccines and the boss is now admitting that it is likely not that effective on Omicron.

The availability of RATs is a mess. The PCR testing is a mess. Contact tracing is a mess. Businesses are still being crippled financially because of this. The whole situation has turned into a mess.

Just take the L and move on. Whatever happens to our hospital system will happen. Whatever happens to us as individuals will happen. Whatever happens to our family will happen. We as a society just have to move on now and stop worrying about COVID mandates (e.g. vaccine, testing requirements, self-isolation requirements etc.) and handle it like we handle the flu and other viruses (e.g. optional COVID vaccines/booster shots + no fixed isolation requirements). Yes, COVID’s worse than the flu, but we obviously can’t stop it.

I’d rather everyone that’s symptomatic manage their symptoms at home like we did with other viruses in the past and go to the hospital when required. We’ll just have to learn from our incompetence this time around so that we can handle a spread of disease better next time there is a pandemic. We can also look at investing more resources into our health care systems instead of COVID tests so that we have more health care workers and facilities to deal with issues like this.

All I’m saying is that we’ve reached a time where we pull the plug on trying to fight what seems like a losing battle.
Part of me feels a bit like this.

Not in terms of 'I'm over it now so let's just quit the fight and go back to normal', as that's just infantile and suggests that there's a possibility that we could be close to normal without all these measures in place to this point.

But in terms of 'living with it', we have been haven't we? Aren't we pretty close to normal now?

The deadshits in government are tripping over themselves to work out the details of a few things, but largely we're back to normal aren't we?

Schools open, shops open, sport happening, gyms open, restaurants, bars etc. etc.

Once they sort out the deal with isolation and testing and s**t, which shouldn't take them too long, we'll be as close to normal as we probably ever will be.

As for fighting a losing battle, I think that's open to debate. I'd argue we've won the battle. Or at least, are absolutely winning it.

It all depends on what the battle is. If it's to kill off COVID then yes, we failed miserably - but that was never the battle. That was never the intent.

The battle was to live with the virus, without completely rooting society. We've done that with flying colours. It's not quite over yet - but I see what we've achieved a nation, a state and as communities as extraordinary. Sure, there are things that with the benefit of hindsight could be done better, but all in all we've done an incredible job in dealing with a 1 in a 100 year global pandemic.



Taxi licensees copped it in the arse when Uber came along. Video shops died when Netflix arrived. Car makers were screwed when we stopped buying Fords.
Plenty of industries come and go as the world changes, and unfortunately this will happen as a result of COVID being on the planet.


I think this needs to be accepted to some degree.
 
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Lsta062

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 15, 2014
21,580
41,427
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Chelsea, LA Lakers, Western United
Saying whatever will happen will happen is all well and good until it’s someone you know that is getting subpar care because it all got too hard
You don’t have to tell me. My dad already died because of COVID. He didn’t get hospital care because of the pressure on the hospital system.

Still, I’m saying that whatever will happen will happen because the reality of the situation we’re in is obvious now. It’s time to accept it and just learn from our mistakes to apply to the next pandemic.
 

Lsta062

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 15, 2014
21,580
41,427
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Richmond
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Chelsea, LA Lakers, Western United
Part of me feels a bit like this.

Not in terms of 'I'm over it now so let's just quit the fight and go back to normal', as that's just infantile and suggests that there's a possibility that we could be close to normal without all these measures in place to this point.

But in terms of 'living with it', we have been haven't we? Aren't we pretty close to normal now?

The deadshits in government are tripping over themselves to work out the details of a few things, but largely we're back to normal aren't we?

Schools open, shops open, sport happening, gyms open, restaurants, bars etc. etc.

Once they sort out the deal with isolation and testing and sh*t, which shouldn't take them too long, we'll be as close to normal as we probably ever will be.

As for fighting a losing battle, I think that's open to debate. I'd argue we've won the battle. Or at least, are absolutely winning it.

It all depends on what the battle is. If it's to kill if COVID the yes, we failed miserably - but that was never the battle. That was never the intent.

The battle was to live with the virus, without completely rooting society. We've done that with flying colours. It's not quite over yet - but I see what we've achieved a nation, a state and as communities as extraordinary. Sure, there are things that with the benefit of hindsight could be done better, but all in all we've done an incredible job in dealing with a 1 in a 100 year global pandemic.



Taxi licensees copped it in the arse when Uber came along. Video shops died when Netflix arrived. Car makers were screwed when we stopped buying Fords.
Plenty of industries come and go as the world changes, and unfortunately this will happen as a result of COVID being on the planet.


I think this needs to be accepted to some degree.
I still think we’re pretty far from normal with these testing and isolation requirements. Definitely closer to normal than the lockdown days but I think we just need to let all the mandates go surrounding COVID and stop reporting case numbers. I’m still for developing vaccines against COVID and analysing samples collected. I’m also for wearing masks.

It’s just the mandates and the depressing statistics that I want gone. Whoever wants to get tested, wants to wear a mask, or get the vaccine can do so. If you’re symptomatic, then stay home like you normally do when you are ill with other viruses. I just don’t want to see our whole lives controlled by COVID any more than it already controls us through the illnesses it causes. Also, it’s almost like people use COVID to further their political views at this point. I’m just over it. It was handled badly so I just want all of us to move on with our lives (if we don’t die that is) and go back to how we dealt with viruses pre-COVID.
 
Absolutely they are

Heart disease, cancer etc - all increased significantly by obesity
There's not a wave that will pass through resulting in a percentage of all fat people needing hospitalisation in a short period of time, thus stopping things like elective surgery and tying up paramedics so that more will die who need immediate intervention and resulting in reduced standards of care for all who are hospitalised.
 

Roby

Cancelled
10k Posts
Jul 27, 2008
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I’m fully on board for a sugar tax personally

Unfortunately for COVID it doesn’t seem to have the lobbyists the fast food restaurants have

Also if you told me science had developed a safe injection that prevented me from getting fat I’d be all over it

Phentermine is very effective even if it's not a vaccine.
 

Roby

Cancelled
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It kinda is though....
This Danish study found "Furthermore, we show that fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated individuals are generally less susceptible to infection compared to unvaccinated individuals. We also show that booster-vaccinated individuals generally had a reduced transmissibility (OR: 0.72, CI: 0.56-0.92), and that unvaccinated individuals had a higher transmissibility (OR: 1.41, CI: 1.27-1.57), compared to fully vaccinated individuals"
You asserted that vaccines have zero ability to reduce transmission, boosters do reduce transmission.....

We don't need studies, it's common sense. If you haven't worked out that the vaccine reduces transmission than you're beyond help inside a loony bin.

Just the same as masks.
 
Aug 25, 2005
11,640
16,684
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I still think we’re pretty far from normal with these testing and isolation requirements. Definitely closer to normal than the lockdown days but I think we just need to let all the mandates go surrounding COVID and stop reporting case numbers. I’m still for developing vaccines against COVID and analysing samples collected. I’m also for wearing masks.

It’s just the mandates and the depressing statistics that I want gone. Whoever wants to get tested, wants to wear a mask, or get the vaccine can do so. If you’re symptomatic, then stay home like you normally do when you are ill with other viruses. I just don’t want to see our whole lives controlled by COVID any more than it already controls us through the illnesses it causes. Also, it’s almost like people use COVID to further their political views at this point. I’m just over it. It was handled badly so I just want all of us to move on with our lives (if we don’t die that is) and go back to how we dealt with viruses pre-COVID.
I don't want to sound condescending here, but it sounds like you watch the news.

If so, that's the first thing I'd stop doing. I'd also steer clear of social media.

The world actually isn't that bad.


Funnily enough, I caught the Ch9 news a couple times last week as it came in straight after the cricket. OMG. No wonder people are ******* wigging out!!

What a disgrace the news is. It's shameful on us all as a society that the 'news' has such a huge nightly audience.
 
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