Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[Yoda_]

If size was all that matters Courtney John’s would have been good.

Clearly Thilthorpe has far more experience as a key forward than Koschitzke who was drafted as a key defender and had played there up until 2021.

That’s all losing sight of the point though, as has Sphynx, this isn’t about whether Thilthorpe is going to be better than Koschitzke because he most likely will be, but the comment that Thilthorpe alone will be better than all Hawks or North’s forwards combined is hyperbole.

The hyperbole is that every Hawk has been better than anyone else in this thread.


Most neutrals can agree that Thilthorpe's output in his debut year was as good an any of the other big boys first years.
NOTE. I must of missed the comment that Riley will be better than anyone else combined.

 

[Yoda_]

Powell was second favorite behind Jackson prior to sitting out the rest of the year with OP, this was despite not even having a nomination.

You can’t place if you aren’t nominated.

Come on man, Nik Cox was the favourite at one point too. Things change. We all need to accept that

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The hyperbole is that every Hawk has been better than anyone else in this thread.


Most neutrals can agree that Thilthorpe's output in his debut year was as good an any of the other big boys first years.
NOTE. I must of missed the comment that Riley will be better than anyone else combined.

Every Hawk hasn’t been better than everyone else, that’s just you not reading the thread properly but drawing a conclusion regardless.

 

[Sphynx]

Come on man, Nik Cox was the favourite at one point too. Things change. We all need to accept that

Huh? I know that.

It’s kind of relevant if you are in that market of the betting though before getting injured for the rest of the season .

I was responding to the fact that a 5th place from Day somehow elevated his year above Powells

As mentioned, Powell couldn’t have received votes as he was never nominated.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But it wasn’t his 1st season was it? It was his third.

He had 2 years of AFL preseasons, daily meetings, development coaches and VFL tune ups to prepare. You can’t compare that to Thilthorpe (who missed a ton of football with OP also).

Mark this down along with the “Wards a top 5 pick” as plain weird.

So maybe you can tell us what percentage of Koschitzke’s output as a first year forward you think was his age/development and what part actual talent?

 

[Sphynx]

So maybe you can tell us what percentage of Koschitzke’s output as a first year forward you think was his age/development and what part actual talent?

Sorry, you are confusing the argument again, are you still referring to him as a first year player?

Are we talking 2019 or 2021?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sorry, you are confusing the argument again, are you still referring to him as a first year player?

Are we talking 2019 or 2021?

Don’t be coy.
He was drafted as a key defender, had played there for 2 seasons(when not injured or concussed) and then switched to the forward line in 2021 for his debut.

You’re implying that his output in 2021 is due almost solely to the fact that he’s been on a list for 3 years, and disregarding his output in a position that was completely new to him.

Are you suggesting that his 2021 was largely due to being 20yrs old, or will you concede that he’s got serious talent to produce those numbers in his first handful of games?

 

[VinnieB]

Comparing a first year forward to a third year forward is fraught with danger. At least compare first years if you want to do it. Very unfair on Riley

wouldn't fit the narrative

 

[Sphynx]

Don’t be coy.
He was drafted as a key defender, had played there for 2 seasons(when not injured or concussed) and then switched to the forward line in 2021 for his debut.

You’re implying that his output in 2021 is due almost solely to the fact that he’s been on a list for 3 years, and disregarding his output in a position that was completely new to him.

Are you suggesting that his 2021 was largely due to being 20yrs old, or will you concede that he’s got serious talent to produce those numbers in his first handful of games?

I’m conceding he has a clear advantage when comparing him to any other genuine first year player.

He’s had 3 years with a professional S&C and sporting organization, you can be the most talented kid getting around but it means squat at the top level if you don’t have the physical strength to compete.

You can points score all you like regarding fractions of a statistic being higher for Koschitzke over Thilthorpe when they have a 3 year age gap all you like, it just comes off as more desperation in this thread by Hawks fans to win irrelevant arguments

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Powell has shown every bit as much as Day in his first season, yet Day is viewed by Hawk fans as a gun and one of their best. And JHF v Ward?? C’mon mate. JHF already looks like he is on a different level completely.

Day looks a special player.

When people like Matthew Lloyd suggest that he has the scope to rise like Sam Walsh and become a superstar of the competiton, it’s clear that he’s viewed that way by more than just Hawks fans.

 

[Sphynx]

Day looks a special player.

When people like Matthew Lloyd suggest that he has the scope to rise like Sam Walsh and become a superstar of the competiton, it’s clear that he’s viewed that way by more than just Hawks fans.

 

[VinnieB]

Day looks a special player.

When people like Matthew Lloyd suggest that he has the scope to rise like Sam Walsh and become a superstar of the competiton, it’s clear that he’s viewed that way by more than just Hawks fans.

ok

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m conceding he has a clear advantage when comparing him to any other genuine first year player.

He’s had 3 years with a professional S&C and sporting organization, you can be the most talented kid getting around but it means squat at the top level if you don’t have the physical strength to compete.

You can points score all you like regarding fractions of a statistic being higher for Koschitzke over Thilthorpe when they have a 3 year age gap all you like, it just comes off as more desperation in this thread by Hawks fans to win irrelevant arguments

So you clearly missed the post where I said that I think in all likelihood Thilthorpe will be a better player than Kosi, because you’re acting like that’s the argument.

Let’s get a percentage from you though on what part of Kosi’s 2021 season was due to his age?

And then to circle back to main argument, let me ask this question very basically for you… would you give up all of Larkey, Zurhar, Stephenson, and CCJ for Thilthorpe?
Of course you wouldn’t, because that’s bonkers, yet somehow I’m the only poster making this argument.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That’s great, but I’m not making any comment on Powell, I was highlighting that it’s not just Hawks fans who see something special in Day.

 

[Yoda_]

Wouldn’t Emerson Jena (Hawthorn) be a better comparison with Riley Thilthorp?


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[Strapping Young Lad]

Wouldn’t Emerson Jena (Hawthorn) be a better comparison with Riley Thilthorp?


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The argument by the Crows poster was that Thilthorpe alone puts Crows forward line ahead of both North and Hawks.

Koschitzke and Larkey were put up in a direct comparison with Thilthorpe to show that despite his obvious potential his output doesn’t put him so far ahead of those singular players that he’d also be preferred to each teams entire forward lines.

 

[Yoda_]

The argument by the Crows poster was that Thilthorpe alone puts Crows forward line ahead of both North and Hawks.

Koschitzke and Larkey were put up in a direct comparison with Thilthorpe to show that despite his obvious potential his output doesn’t put him so far ahead of those singular players that he’d also be preferred to each teams entire forward lines.

Ok, thanks


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[Lsta062]

Richmond finished 12th last year and are getting worse not better.
To many consistent injuries.
GC is a good call though they will be around the mark.

Just as rising up the ladder is not linear, declining down the ladder is not linear either. Teams with recent success can still jump up the ladder on their way down (e.g. Hawthorn in 2018). Even if Richmond's overall trajectory is down, it doesn't mean that they will decline further down the ladder next year. All we need is a good run with injury for that to happen in my opinion.

Having said that, this thread is not about Richmond so I don't want to get bogged down on this topic.

 

[VinnieB]

Don’t be coy.
He was drafted as a key defender, had played there for 2 seasons(when not injured or concussed) and then switched to the forward line in 2021 for his debut.

You’re implying that his output in 2021 is due almost solely to the fact that he’s been on a list for 3 years, and disregarding his output in a position that was completely new to him.

Are you suggesting that his 2021 was largely due to being 20yrs old, or will you concede that he’s got serious talent to produce those numbers in his first handful of games?

Mihocek was recruited as a defender, yet made his debut at the Pies as a forward and kicked almost 2 goals a game when he came into the team halfway through 2018.

What difference does that make?

 

[VinnieB]

Richmond finished 12th last year and are getting worse not better.
To many consistent injuries.
GC is a good call though they will be around the mark.

I think the bottom 4 will be the same as 2021 except Hawthorn will replace GC.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mihocek was recruited as a defender, yet made his debut at the Pies as a forward and kicked almost 2 goals a game when he came into the team halfway through 2018.

What difference does that make?

Cools story. Misses the point completely, but still a cool story.

Collingwood is probably the one side that you absolutely would take Thilthorpe over their entire forward line, because you’ve got almost nothing coming through at that end of the ground.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just as rising up the ladder is not linear, declining down the ladder is not linear either. Teams with recent success can still jump up the ladder on their way down (e.g. Hawthorn in 2018). Even if Richmond's overall trajectory is down, it doesn't mean that they will decline further down the ladder next year. All we need is a good run with injury for that to happen in my opinion.

Having said that, this thread is not about Richmond so I don't want to get bogged down on this topic.

Richmond will be better in 2022, not worse.

 

[VinnieB]

Cools story. Misses the point completely, but still a cool story.

Collingwood is probably the one side that you absolutely would take Thilthorpe over their entire forward line, because you’ve got almost nothing coming through at that end of the ground.

I agree I would take Tilthorpe. Not delusional unlike yourself.
But how does Mihocek miss the point?
Koschitzke has had 3 pre-seasons. Tilthorpe 1.
Avg 1.4 goals a game v 1.3 goals a game.
Tilthorpe has also spent time in the ruck, while Koschitzke was exclusively forward.

Based on 2021 performance of both players, I would expect every recruiter in the country would take Tilthorpe over Kos. Tilthorpe you can build a whole forward line around, whereas Kos is just a player who will probably be in and out of the team.

 

[Nutjob]

I didnt miss them. I just dont rate them that highly.
The fact both north and hawks fans disagree makes me feel like im close to spot on.

I haven’t agreed with pretty much any Hawthorn post over the last few weeks, but Jiath is a talent. I would honestly take him over Day.


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[Strapping Young Lad]

I agree I would take Tilthorpe. Not delusional unlike yourself.
But how does Mihocek miss the point?
Koschitzke has had 3 pre-seasons. Tilthorpe 1.
Avg 1.4 goals a game v 1.3 goals a game.
Tilthorpe has also spent time in the ruck, while Koschitzke was exclusively forward.

Based on 2021 performance of both players, I would expect every recruiter in the country would take Tilthorpe over Kos. Tilthorpe you can build a whole forward line around, whereas Kos is just a player who will probably be in and out of the team.

I would expect every recruiter to take Thilthorpe too, but I do have to laugh at your comment about Kosi being in and out of the team (considering just how bloody good he was in his first handful of games with no Gunston to lead him and Lewis missing games rendering him our sole tall forward), and I doubt any recruiter or list manager would take Thilthorpe solely over the combined forwards that North and Hawthorn potentially have.