Crypto Sponsorship for the AFL - and now NFTs

[Chief]

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[Looney]

This whole Crypto, DeFi, NFTs, Metaverse movement is quite concerning. I'm not sure if this is the direction that humanity should be heading towards. It's almost like the 'architects' are in a hurry to make the Matrix a reality.

 

[Looney]

I've just invested in a few that I believe hold future value, like Dapps and smart contracts, rather than trying to time the market I prefer a long term hold. Day trading is not for me.

Regarding the tech though, I am definitely not an innovator, and usually fall somewhere as an early or late majority adopter for most things.

Blockchain is in its infancy though in terms of adoption, there's still a lot to happening the space but the signs are good with more and more examples of big players exploring its use.

What's wrong with the system we have now?

 

[BobbyMorri]

You can already make payments with crypto using a crypto.com card, or BlockFi, and get rewards back in crypto. Plenty of people have been using these for years and they're affiliated with Visa so it's no different to using a normal CC/debit card if you really must know.

You say that you know what inflation is and then go on to say that crypto can 'inflate' 8% in a day. FYI when people talk about inflationary/deflationary in crypto, they are referring to the available supply, not whether it appreciates/depreciates in value.

You also actually can use Paypal to pay for things with crypto: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/30/...ith-bitcoin-litecoin-ethereum-crypto-checkout

Other services, such as Amazon, are adopting crypto as forms of payment moving forward and there are projects developing website widgets for eCommerce so people can pay via crypto instead of cash. It's happening.

"what is wrong with me saying that the only reason people like crypto is because they don't trust the government or banks.?"

Plenty. It's a completely wrong assertation and assumes that crypto users are some weird anti-establishment gang. Well, they're mostly not. People just don't like financial institutions using our money to make major profits and charging us for the privilege.

As for your last point, El Salvador has adopted Bitcoin as legal tender in a bid to remove themselves from being reliant on the USD. Other Latin American nations are soon to follow, so it will be interesting to see how it progresses but by all account, it's going well.

Nigeria is another example you may wish to brush up on to see how people there having been adopting crypto for years to preserve their wealth due to their economy completely tanking.

People want to be in control of their financial future and it's becoming increasingly evident that FIAT currencies, and the governments that back them, aren't capable of providing long-term security for people to preserve their wealth. Crypto does.

All inflation is that your currency is worth less than it was over a period of time, due to supply. It is a cost of holding money, so I called it as such. Of course, we expect an inflation rate of 1-3% but It doesn't have to be that way. the Yen has struggled with deflation for decades.

Of course, when a Crypto depreciates to USD, its not the money supply that's the issue but the demand, but the outcome is the same. That the currency is lower of value. hence the comparison. But please, tell me how inflation works again.

You act as if Crypto is a new thing. That no one has ever thought of a currency with is deflationary or with a fixed supply. We have done that for thousands of years. It is called Gold. We moved away from it because it stopped working as intended.

You know what all those countries you have said have in common.....bad financial governance. The fact is, only 6-8% of Americans use or own CC..... How many actually use it in their lives and how many do it because it is seen as an investment.

 

[juss]

What's wrong with the system we have now?

Is this a serious question?

What was wrong with the horse and cart before the car?
What was wrong with the cassette tape before the CD?
What was wrong with going into the shops before online shopping?
What was wrong with travelling by ship before the plane?

Product, process and tech advances over time. This is no different.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Is this a serious question?

What was wrong with the horse and cart before the car?
What was wrong with the cassette tape before the CD?
What was wrong with going into the shops before online shopping?
What was wrong with travelling by ship before the plane?

Product, process and tech advances over time. This is no different.

Ther car and plane are quicker. The CD held more data. Online shopping is convenient and easy.

Now, why should someone use CC instead of our current systems? What is the benefit? Especially in Australia with a very sound RBA and financial management. All i see is a huge energy footprint, data hacks and scams and an inefficient system including a 3rd party which is no better and in fact worst.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I've just invested in a few that I believe hold future value, like Dapps and smart contracts, rather than trying to time the market I prefer a long term hold. Day trading is not for me.

Regarding the tech though, I am definitely not an innovator, and usually fall somewhere as an early or late majority adopter for most things.

Blockchain is in its infancy though in terms of adoption, there's still a lot to happening the space but the signs are good with more and more examples of big players exploring its use.

Isn’t investing in blockchain technology and and smart contracts versus buying a crypto currency on and exchange two separate but related things though?

I would happily invest in a good technology if I had a sound way to value it or a way of saying for certain it is currently undervalued in the market. But specifically a crypto coin, how would you go about working out its true current value?

 

[juss]

Isn’t investing in blockchain technology and and smart contracts versus buying a crypto currency on and exchange two separate but related things though?

I would happily invest in a good technology if I had a sound way to value it or a way of saying for certain it is currently undervalued in the market. But specifically a crypto coin, how would you go about working out its true current value?

The digital coins are the assets that allow transaction on the platform or project. Generally speaking, investing in the asset is how you invest in the project.

I keep it simple as I said. As an example I believe in the potential of the Cardano project so I've invested in ADA and will hold that for the future, predicting that as its use and adoption increase that asset will go up in value.

 

[juss]

Ther car and plane are quicker. The CD held more data. Online shopping is convenient and easy.

Now, why should someone use CC instead of our current systems? What is the benefit? Especially in Australia with a very sound RBA and financial management. All i see is a huge energy footprint, data hacks and scams and an inefficient system including a 3rd party which is no better and in fact worst.

Google the benefits of smart contracts for example, enabled by the blockchain technology and you'll see the potential benefits.

Again, it's not my fault nor do I care if you don't understand the benefits. It won't matter when in a decade's time smart contracts handle huge transactions or exchanges of assets.

 

[Looney]

Is this a serious question?

What was wrong with the horse and cart before the car?
What was wrong with the cassette tape before the CD?
What was wrong with going into the shops before online shopping?
What was wrong with travelling by ship before the plane?

Product, process and tech advances over time. This is no different.

You are mistaking a cultural/ideological shift with advancement of technology. If you think this new 'Decentralised' blockchain movement will make the world a better place then you are very naive. Tell me, what exactly is the advantage to the system we have now?

 

[BobbyMorri]

Google the benefits of smart contracts for example, enabled by the blockchain technology and you'll see the potential benefits.

Again, it's not my fault nor do I care if you don't understand the benefits. It won't matter when in a decade's time smart contracts handle huge transactions or exchanges of assets.

Thats Blockchain,.Not Crypto

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You are mistaking a cultural/ideological shift with advancement of technology. If you think this new 'Decentralised' blockchain movement will make the world a better place then you are very naive. Tell me, what exactly is the advantage to the system we have now?

20% APY on UST via anchor protocol, for example. Find a bank that offers anything near that.

 

[Looney]

20% APY on UST via anchor protocol, for example. Find a bank that offers anything near that.

You are talking about making money off of a huge bubble. it won't last.

 

[bzparkes]

All inflation is that your currency is worth less than it was over a period of time, due to supply. It is a cost of holding money, so I called it as such. Of course, we expect an inflation rate of 1-3% but It doesn't have to be that way. the Yen has struggled with deflation for decades.

Of course, when a Crypto depreciates to USD, its not the money supply that's the issue but the demand, but the outcome is the same. That the currency is lower of value. hence the comparison. But please, tell me how inflation works again.

You act as if Crypto is a new thing. That no one has ever thought of a currency with is deflationary or with a fixed supply. We have done that for thousands of years. It is called Gold. We moved away from it because it stopped working as intended.

You know what all those countries you have said have in common.....bad financial governance. The fact is, only 6-8% of Americans use or own CC..... How many actually use it in their lives and how many do it because it is seen as an investment.

Personally, I'm not someone who'll be using crypto as a currency, I'll be using it as an investment to increase my net worth.

El Salvador has proven that it is quite feasible to use Bitcoin as legal tender however and more countries who are reliant on the USD are looking to move towards Bitcoin also.

The fact that the money printer from the US government has been working non-stop since the pandemic (not backed by anything FYI) just proves what a scam FIAT currency truly is.

Gold's also stopped being feasible because of the effort to store and secure it, something that is very easy with crypto.

You probably don't understand that regulation has made it difficult in the USA for people to actually gain access to crypto, something institutions are attempting to get the government to be more lenient on. Expect that '6-8%' to jump up significantly once a spot ETF eventually gets approved.

Not sure where you got the idea that I think crypto is a new thing but in the global financial system it certainly is. It's going to be the next .com boom after all. Very early days and adoption is growing fast.

 

[bzparkes]

What's wrong with the system we have now?

Everything. It's designed to keep you poor and in debt forever.

People think crypto is dangerous yet are entirely fine with 18 year olds having access to credit cards, bank loans and gambling.

 

[bzparkes]

You are talking about making money off of a huge bubble. it won't last.

People said the internet wouldn't last, then Amazon. Crypto will go the way of many technologies/industries/companies that people said will never last but went on to have impact on people's lives on a global scale, whether you understand it or not.

People have been saying crypto won't last since Bitcoin began, 13 years ago. All I see is it growing bigger and bigger and gaining more mainstream adoption.

 

[Looney]

Everything. It's designed to keep you poor and in debt forever.

People think crypto is dangerous yet are entirely fine with 18 year olds having access to credit cards, bank loans and gambling.

So crypto is going to make everyone rich?

 

[RandB]

For me, the issue isnt that crypto is fundamentally 'wrong' in some way, it's more that it is reasonably complex. Unless you fully understand it, you shouldn't be going anywhere near it.

Those people who understand the technical aspects and applications of crypto might be making a buck and good luck to them.

The average joe probably has nfi how it works though and footy attracts a lot of average Joe's. It's a big step by the AFL to enter this space and there is capacity to cause undue influence as the AFL promotes and normalises this to the masses.

 

[Looney]

People said the internet wouldn't last, then Amazon. Crypto will go the way of many technologies/industries/companies that people said will never last but went on to have impact on people's lives on a global scale, whether you understand it or not.

People have been saying crypto won't last since Bitcoin began, 13 years ago. All I see is it growing bigger and bigger and gaining more mainstream adoption.

Would you sell your house for Bitcoins?

 

[Gigantic]

I'm a supporter of crypto and blockchain tech. There's actual real use cases for crypto/web3 in the real world - and I'm not just talking about NFTs and the metaverse. Look at DeFi and its potential in decentralised lending, collateralisation, smart asset management, flash loans, decentralised identity etc. We aren't talking about a pie in the sky anymore.

Having said all that... just as I'm opposed to mass marketing of gambling ads, I also am pretty opposed to mass marketing of platforms that trade speculative assets.

 

[bzparkes]

So crypto is going to make everyone rich?

Of course not, because most people who get into it make little to no effort to learn it. You don't get rich without taking any form of risk though. It's up to you how much you're comfortable risking.

Much better chance of making you rich than working 9-5 and leaving your money in the bank.

If you invested $100 a month into Bitcoin since 2021, you'd have just under $1 million USD right now.

The returns will be less as the market grows bigger but there's still plenty of opportunities for mega gains, if you take the time to learn and know where to look.

For instance, apart from 2020, which was a very outlier year due tot he pandemic, the stock market averages a 10-12% gain per annum(2020 was 100% gain, completely unprecedented). Bitcoin averages 220%pa, with some runs being in the real of 4000%. Remember this is the 'average' over a 13 year period.

It's hands-down the best performing asset class and it's only just now that big institutional players are publicly disclosing their crypto assets.

If that's not a sign of the potential growth to come over the next decade then I don't know what is.

 

[bzparkes]

Would you sell your house for Bitcoins?

I don't have a house but if I already fully owned an asset like a house, then I'd leverage it to buy another one.

1st rule of investing is to never sell your biggest assets to FIAT, you borrow against them to invest more so that your interest payments are less than your returns.

CZ who owns Binance sold his apartment in Hong Kong for Bitcoin though. Now he's a billionaire due to that one investment.

 

[bzparkes]

For me, the issue isnt that crypto is fundamentally 'wrong' in some way, it's more that it is reasonably complex. Unless you fully understand it, you shouldn't be going anywhere near it.

Those people who understand the technical aspects and applications of crypto might be making a buck and good luck to them.

The average joe probably has nfi how it works though and footy attracts a lot of average Joe's. It's a big step by the AFL to enter this space and there is capacity to cause undue influence as the AFL promotes and normalises this to the masses.

This is a good call. The stock market, especially CFDs and leverage (you can do this in crypto also) have the same issue for me. People who don't know what they're doing just get wrecked. Investing in anything isn't something you should be doing without a fair amount of prior knowledge, experience or a financial advisor. You also should never put in what you either need in the near future, or can't afford to lose.

 

[juss]

Thats Blockchain,.Not Crypto

For the purposes of this discussion, they are effectively the same thing. The tokens are central to the tech. E.g. smart contracts on Ethereum are linked to the currency ETH. Investing in the currency is effectively investing in the Ethereum platform.

 

[juss]

You are mistaking a cultural/ideological shift with advancement of technology. If you think this new 'Decentralised' blockchain movement will make the world a better place then you are very naive. Tell me, what exactly is the advantage to the system we have now?

I've stated in this thread multiple times to those who don't understand the tech, google the benefits of smart contracts as an example of the tech advancement in blockchain technology.

You are using vague terms that I've never mentioned like "make the world a better place". I've never once used that hyperbole. However blockchain technology will offer a new way of doing certain things, a new set of processes for certain tasks.

The tech enables things to be done differently or more efficiently, humans decide how it is used for better or worse. No different than the internet in that respect, it's not good or bad in itself, it enables humans to do things, and the humans decide if they use it for good like connecting with family across the globe or bad like engaging in cybercrime.

The same with blockchain technology. It can be a transparent, secure, fast, efficient, untamperable ledger for efficient transactions and record management, or it can facilitate things not so good.

 

[happy_eagle]

Personally, I'm not someone who'll be using crypto as a currency, I'll be using it as an investment to increase my net worth.

El Salvador has proven that it is quite feasible to use Bitcoin as legal tender however and more countries who are reliant on the USD are looking to move towards Bitcoin also.

Blockchain solutions scale poorly.

Bitcoin processes around 5 transactions per second
Visa (traditional system) processes 1,700 transactions per second on average
Source: https://towardsdatascience.com/the-...e-for-visa-like-transaction-speed-5cce48f9d44

Also a busier blockchain network = higher transaction fees. I recall transferring some Bitcoin between wallets a while back, and what was a simple $100 shift from one wallet to another, carried a transaction/processing fee of almost $15 (thankfully had credits that I could use to reduce). But imagine a scenario lining up for chips at the footy to pay with crypto and finding out the already overpriced food has an additional $5 added on because the network is busy. I know that there are some solutions that are addressing this (Bitcoin Lightning Network being the main one) but there are some pretty significant security tradeoffs with these.

Then there is the elephant in the room around energy use. It is all well and good to say "oh well everything will be solar some day so its ok", but that's a bit of a cop out of a real current problem. The security of blockchain solutions is designed around computers solving "high effort math". Faster computer processes only raises the bar in this regard, which is where we end up with a scenario where bitcoin consumes more electricity than Argentina. There is a reason why Tesla suspended Bitcoin as a payment option for its vehicles (there was talk they would recommence, but not sure if they have?). Pawning off the problem to the energy industry to solve, doesn't help to address a major flaw in the technology.

I'm not necessarily a crypto hater (although I would say that about 90% of the people that I have met that are into NFTs have been absolute douchebags. Perhaps that is just a coincidence) and own a little crypto myself, but people like you that talk about crypto future with such surety (e.g "Bitcoin will be at 100k by the end of the year") either don't fully understand what they are buying into from a technology perspective, or are just following the same buzzwords and catchphrases they have seen on subreddits.