Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[greatwhiteshark]

So WA fans get that GFs were played at specific clubs (Subiaco) grounds, they weren't awarded on merit or rotated around to Fremantle, Leederville etc.

Bit rich calling it a state competition if you didn't have clubs from outside Perth.

You know I understand so no need to make your point with me.

 

[Cleavy]

does the NRL have similar complaints, since theirs is locked in for 25 years in Sydney?

 

[Papa G]

does the NRL have similar complaints, since theirs is locked in for 25 years in Sydney?

NSW govt is putting $2 billion towards NRL Infrastructure. So that works ourt to about $80 million a year, much closer to market rates and fair value for the NRL dont you reckon?
Makes the MCG deal look pathetically inadequate and the losers that signed it, ie Gil and the Commission either woefully stupid, or outrageously corrupt. There's a lot of smart people on that commission, so you make up your own mind.

 

[Coolangatta]

It's absolute horseshit.

There's absolutely no reason not to:

a) Rotate the grand final between Sydney, Adelaide, Perth, Brisbane, and Melbourne every year.
b) Play the grand final at 2.30 pm local time with all the bells and whistles.
c) Limit corporate packages to 10-15k for non-Vic grounds, maybe 20k if they ever reach a 70k+ capacity.

It'd be a great event no matter where it's played.

 

[go_the_dockers]

legit question for the non-vic supporters: Are you willing to have the GA tickets cost $350-400+?

One of the main arguments for the G hosting every year, is that it can hold over 100K, so it can get the most supporters there. Perth holds 60k, adelaide 54k, the scg 48k and the gabba 42k. At $200 GA ticket prices, thats anywhere from 8-12 million dollars in revenue lost from ticket sales alone. And thats generous, considering a large number of seats lost will be reserved, corporate etc seats which can cost thousands. Not to mention the (scam) guaranteed gf ticket packages the clubs sell which would have to be significantly reduced to compensate for the fact they might have less than half the seats they previously had to sell. The revenue shortfall could be 20 million plus.

Some people have tried to argue that locking the game to the MCG is financially negligent (ihmo a highly flawed argument but thats a different story). Surely creating a 10-20 million dollar per year reduction in revenue would be worse? That could very well mean the death of 1-2 clubs, no way an tassie team is let in, and a significant reduction in grass roots funding. And for what? It's not like the afl need to grow the game in WA or SA, and sydney-siders wont care once they've taken their selfie in the stand.

So again, are you willing to pay $350-400+ (even closer to 500 for the smaller grounds) for general admission tickets, to have the game in your state?

30k are from MCC.

We pay 1k for plane tickets. More for accommodation. 500 bucks is cheap.

 

[Coolangatta]

Say the GF needs to be 70k minimum. Does anyone know how long it would take them to expand Adelaide Oval and Optus Stadium's capacity?

 

[Toump Ass]

30k are from MCC.

There's 23,000 GF tickets allocated to the MCC.

 

[Gibbke]

Is Gibbke a school teacher? Ah okay then. In my professional career the 2 worst types of clients are Engineers and school teachers. Engineers, because they have to know the inner workings of everything, school teachers because they know everything without actually knowing anything.

Only just saw this. Pretty arrogant, but too long ago to rip you for it...I'm interested to know what you do for a living?

 

[kranky al]

Say the GF needs to be 70k minimum. Does anyone know how long it would take them to expand Adelaide Oval and Optus Stadium's capacity?

Optus was designed to be expandable - would be prefabbed and done in an offseason.

 

[HaroLad]

Non-Vic seething is clearly instituting cognitive dissonance. The Grand Final being at the MCG was a condition of your entry. You accepted this. Yet somehow you're outraged at the Grand Final being at the MCG? If you don't like it, leave our competition and form your own.

You West Australians can stay locked in your caves all you like, you're not guaranteed two AFL spots. I know a few places that would love to have them.

 

[kranky al]

Non-Vic seething is clearly instituting cognitive dissonance. The Grand Final being at the MCG was a condition of your entry. You accepted this. Yet somehow you're outraged at the Grand Final being at the MCG? If you don't like it, leave our competition and form your own.

You West Australians can stay locked in your caves all you like, you're not guaranteed two AFL spots. I know a few places that would love to have them.

When we entered the competition west coast had to pay for opposition teams to fly to perth.

Oh and by the way, if you plan on using terms like cognitive dissonance, try using them in a way that doesnt look like you put the sentence through a thermomix set to make soup.

 

[HaroLad]

When we entered the competition west coast had to pay for opposition teams to fly to perth.

Oh and by the way, if you plan on using terms like cognitive dissonance, try using them in a way that doesnt look like you put the sentence through a thermomix set to make soup.

I use that term in a way which is consistent with how it is ordinarily understood.

And if that was the initial arrangement, I see no reason why it should not have continued given your ungrateful attitude and the otherwise woeful state of Western Australian Football if not for Victoria.

 

[The_Wookie]

When we entered the competition west coast had to pay for opposition teams to fly to perth.

Lasted a year, the ARL did the same with the Western Reds. Travel to and from Perth was thought to be a burden on everyone.

 

[kranky al]

Lasted a year, the ARL did the same with the Western Reds. Travel to and from Perth was thought to be a burden on everyone.

Yes well playing away games is also a burden….

 

[The_Wookie]

Yes well playing away games is also a burden….

It was part of the license conditions. They didnt have to agree - but the WAFL was way too keen to agree to terms in 86

 

[kranky al]

It was part of the license conditions. They didnt have to agree - but the WAFL was way too keen to agree to terms in 86

As was being made to pay for victorian teams to travel west.

The point being that just because they signed up to it doesnt mean its right.

 

[1990crow]

The argument that other teams joined "their" competition makes the league sound like something that is doomed to fail as a nationally recognised institution.

Without WA and SA teams the league would lose legitimatacy compared to soccer and rugby, and it would be likely the money involved in terms of sponsorship and TV right would be miniscal, and the chances of expansion outside of Victoria minimal.
This goes without saying, the VFL was effectively broke.
Arguing that others didn't have to join ignores this. If they didn't, there would be no Victorian lead AFL and to be fair, WA and SA should have let this happen given the Victorians current monopoly on the game.

Sometimes change can be good. This argument of "didn't have to join" is petulant, and dismisses the good that expanding has done for our great game. So much so, that great strides are being made in NSW and Queensland to the point where there is realistic talk of one day overtaking RL.

Having the grand final outside Victoria might not sound ideal for the MCC ticket holders, but ultimately you don't own Aussie Rules.
The entire country does.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Grand finals should be played at North Melbourne's home ground. Yeah we were a little late to enter the VFL, and we knew what the deal was when joining, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to bring some traditions over from the VFA!

 

[The_Wookie]

As was being made to pay for victorian teams to travel west.

The point being that just because they signed up to it doesnt mean its right.

they had the option of not signing up to it - the SANFL held out for another 3 years. Everyone knew the deal. These threads are always full of some magnificent rewriting of the history.

 

[The_Wookie]

The argument that other teams joined "their" competition makes the league sound like something that is doomed to fail as a nationally recognised institution.

Without WA and SA teams the league would lose legitimatacy compared to soccer and rugby, and it would be likely the money involved in terms of sponsorship and TV right would be miniscal, and the chances of expansion outside of Victoria minimal.
This goes without saying, the VFL was effectively broke.
Arguing that others didn't have to join ignores this. If they didn't, there would be no Victorian lead AFL and to be fair, WA and SA should have let this happen given the Victorians current monopoly on the game.

Australian football in general wasnt in a great place financially, years of amateur management at club and league levels was taking its toll on everyone.

this ignores the fact that the only reason the WA teams survived was through transfer fees to Victoria and once the VFL canned that, the WAFL clubs were rapidly going to hit the wall, with few exceptions. The WAFL had already requested WA Gov assistance.

It also ignores that the SANFL clubs werent in a much better position in the late 80s.

It also ignores the fact that EVERY proposed national competition revolved heavily around a large victorian contingent, and without the Victorians they were doomed to fail. That wasnt the case with SA and WA - SA held out for years afterward - and got exactly nothing it demanded (reduction in teams to 14 total including newcomers and no license fee) and WA ony joined out of sheer desperation and fear that the Vics would come and set up in WA anyway. Not to mention, that if the SANFL and WAFL hadnt come to the party - their teams would have.

The idea that Victorian football would have collapsed without the assistance of WA and SA is laughable - the league literally tried nothing except relocating the Swans in 81 - no mergers, no other relocations at the time. Club members and benefcators almost always rallied enough to keep them going.

 

[Scotland]

When we entered the competition west coast had to pay for opposition teams to fly to perth.

Oh and by the way, if you plan on using terms like cognitive dissonance, try using them in a way that doesnt look like you put the sentence through a thermomix set to make soup.

When WC joined the comp players wore woolen jumpers. Our away venues included Windy Hill, Moorabbin, Western Oval, Victoria Park, Waverley and Princes Park. Teams played with squads of 20 players on game day.

Tradition is important, except when it isn't.

 

[WillHayward]

Australian football in general wasnt in a great place financially, years of amateur management at club and league levels was taking its toll on everyone.

this ignores the fact that the only reason the WA teams survived was through transfer fees to Victoria and once the VFL canned that, the WAFL clubs were rapidly going to hit the wall, with few exceptions. The WAFL had already requested WA Gov assistance.

It also ignores that the SANFL clubs werent in a much better position in the late 80s.

It also ignores the fact that EVERY proposed national competition revolved heavily around a large victorian contingent, and without the Victorians they were doomed to fail. That wasnt the case with SA and WA - SA held out for years afterward - and got exactly nothing it demanded (reduction in teams to 14 total including newcomers and no license fee) and WA ony joined out of sheer desperation and fear that the Vics would come and set up in WA anyway. Not to mention, that if the SANFL and WAFL hadnt come to the party - their teams would have.

The idea that Victorian football would have collapsed without the assistance of WA and SA is laughable - the league literally tried nothing except relocating the Swans in 81 - no mergers, no other relocations at the time. Club members and benefcators almost always rallied enough to keep them going.

Fitzroy was broke
Dogs were broke and rattling cans.
Hawks and Dees almost merged.
Saints were broke and basically in liquidation.
North were broke
South Melbourne were broke.
Blues relied on individual benefactors and are still paying the price for that (Pratt and Matheson families).

VFL was hardly thriving in the 80s....

Not that laughable really .

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Grand finals should be played at North Melbourne's home ground. Yeah we were a little late to enter the VFL, and we knew what the deal was when joining, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to bring some traditions over from the VFA!

you would still not sell your ticket allocation.

 

[Teen Wolf]

you would still not sell your ticket allocation.

The league sells the tickets, regardless of the venue.

 

[Kwality]

they had the option of not signing up to it - the SANFL held out for another 3 years. Everyone knew the deal. These threads are always full of some magnificent rewriting of the history.

& things have changed over the last 30+ years .... change does not come easily where self interest is entrenched & that includes the AFL administration/Cricket club/Victorian Government cabal.