Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

[Chief]

Qld today - 7 vaxxed v 3 non-vaxxed
Qld Saturday - 9 vaxxed v 1 non-vaxxed
Qld Friday - 11 vaxxed v 2 non-vaxxed

NSW today - 28 vaxxed v 6 non-vaxxed

How many people in those states are unvaccinated? 10% ? 5%?

Ages?

Number of shots?

 

[Crankyhawk]

A casual glance at statistics over the last few days and it seems the deaths of vaxxed v non-vaxxed is evening out.

Qld today - 7 vaxxed v 3 non-vaxxed
Qld Saturday - 9 vaxxed v 1 non-vaxxed
Qld Friday - 11 vaxxed v 2 non-vaxxed

NSW today - 28 vaxxed v 6 non-vaxxed

I believe the stats of people in ICU are closer to 50%, although that was just a quote from the NSW Premier. I'm curious if those stats are released.

We also know the chances of catching and passing on aren't much different either with Omricon. A new targeted booster might help, but there could be a new strain by them anyway, most likely even less deadly.

So while during the delta etc.. outbreaks vaccination was clearly beneficial and continues to play it's part, the arguments for continuing to mandate, mandate boosters, mass vaccination of children etc, are starting to lose traction. Surely this ends up becoming like the flu shot. We are encouraged to get one, it's updated with the latest strains, but we move on. Sooner rather than later I hope.

You do understand that for vaccination to not be preventing death the vaccinated death needs to run at 20:1 ratio…

 

[scoman]

How many people in those states are unvaccinated? 10% ? 5%?

About that isn't it. My point is the numbers might well be getting closer.

 

[scoman]

You do understand that for vaccination to not be preventing death the vaccinated death needs to run at 20:1 ratio…

Can you explain that a bit more? I thought 90% vaxxed would mean 9:1?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Can you explain that a bit more? I thought 90% vaxxed would mean 9:1?

was going with 95% vacc rate (NSW, act); for a 90% population you are right; although would need to remove younger paediatric from analysis as well (these are unvaccinated and would make the unvaccinated number appear worse)

 

[Chief]

About that isn't it. My point is the numbers might well be getting closer.

What are the ages of these people? Circumstances? A raw number might be misleading here.

 

[Power Raid]

A casual glance at statistics over the last few days and it seems the deaths of vaxxed v non-vaxxed is evening out.

Qld today - 7 vaxxed v 3 non-vaxxed
Qld Saturday - 9 vaxxed v 1 non-vaxxed
Qld Friday - 11 vaxxed v 2 non-vaxxed

NSW today - 28 vaxxed v 6 non-vaxxed

I believe the stats of people in ICU are closer to 50%, although that was just a quote from the NSW Premier. I'm curious if those stats are released.

We also know the chances of catching and passing on aren't much different either with Omricon. A new targeted booster might help, but there could be a new strain by them anyway, most likely even less deadly.

So while during the delta etc.. outbreaks vaccination was clearly beneficial and continues to play it's part, the arguments for continuing to mandate, mandate boosters, mass vaccination of children etc, are starting to lose traction. Surely this ends up becoming like the flu shot. We are encouraged to get one, it's updated with the latest strains, but we move on. Sooner rather than later I hope.

If there is a trend emerging (being a significant benefit in reduced risk of hospitalisation but minimal risk in the reduce of death) perhaps it is explained with:

• vaccines reduce the risk of severe symptoms for the majority of people
• vaccines are not effective for the immune compromised or other vulnerable people. Essentially a group who's bodies don't respond to the vaccines.

Let's wait for the trend to be established or other

 

[Pessimistic]

Again, if the omicron peak will drop away dramatically, why so keen to predict it?


If it’s right, we’ll know soon enough

 

[sr36]

If there is a trend emerging (being a significant benefit in reduced risk of hospitalisation but minimal risk in the reduce of death) perhaps it is explained with:

• vaccines reduce the risk of severe symptoms for the majority of people
• vaccines are not effective for the immune compromised or other vulnerable people. Essentially a group who's bodies don't respond to the vaccines.

Let's wait for the trend to be established or other

There is a clear trend that has been going on for weeks in terms of ICU and hospital representation, not sure about deaths. And it will continue.

The vaxed have lost some of their antibody advantage and are now down to their t cell advantage, but more significantly, the unvaxed group now have a heap of people with naturally acquired immunity, so the percentage of people without any immunity has shrunk below the 5% of unvaxed. It will continue to move in the direction

 

[scoman]

What are the ages of these people? Circumstances? A raw number might be misleading here.

Im not sure where I can even get this information?

Queensland reported 13 deaths today, 10 vaxxed - 3 non-vaxxed.

NSW had 24 deaths but from what I can tell have not released the vaxxed v non-vaxxed figures. All I was able to glean from the reports was only two had been triple vaxxed. Could it be that there were no deaths from the un-vaxxed cohort in NSW in today's figures?

 

[Chief]

Im not sure where I can even get this information?

Queensland reported 13 deaths today, 10 vaxxed - 3 non-vaxxed.

NSW had 24 deaths but from what I can tell have not released the vaxxed v non-vaxxed figures. All I was able to glean from the reports was only two had been triple vaxxed. Could it be that there were no deaths from the un-vaxxed cohort in NSW in today's figures?

And, seeing as this sort of claim is often used by anti-vaxers, it's probably important to be clear about the conclusions you are drawing, and to base those conclusions on accurate information.

 

[scoman]

And, seeing as this sort of claim is often used by anti-vaxers, it's probably important to be clear about the conclusions you are drawing, and to base those conclusions on accurate information.

Well what is the accurate information? Queensland information is accurate. NSW doesn't appear to be available. I wish it was. Hopefully someone has it?

 

[Chief]

Well what is the accurate information? Queensland information is accurate. NSW doesn't appear to be available. I wish it was. Hopefully someone has it?

I don't know - you're the one posting it. TO me it looked like you were doing a metaphorical eyebrow-raise as if this information was significant.

If all the vaccinated people who died were elderly or with serious health problems, while the unvaccinated people who died were younger and in better general health, this would be pretty much as we would expect, but you'd need to look at it over time.

 

[Crankyhawk]

John Campbell is saying that he's recently had the vaccine booster but its efficacy will decline. So he would be better off getting Omicron 'soon' and developing natural immunity rather than being infected once his vaccine efficacy has worn off. Omicron parties for the newly vaccinated anyone?

15.30 to 18.00

woud also need proof that immunity persists after omicron infection. On face value it should, just that there have been quite a few who had delta who then get omicron. There is not yet data out on whether three is signficant reinfection

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

woud also need proof that immunity persists after omicron infection. On face value it should, just that there have been quite a few who had delta who then get omicron. There is not yet data out on whether three is signficant reinfection

Would that argument not also apply to vaccines?

It seems to me as though the vaccination justification beyond the initial necessity to protect against more virulent strains is beginning to look pretty weak (for the otherwise healthy).

 

[Crankyhawk]

Would that argument not also apply to vaccines?

It seems to me as though the vaccination justification beyond the initial necessity to protect against more virulent strains is beginning to look pretty weak (for the otherwise healthy).

from what I have seen prior infection may reduce your chance of contracting the illness (similar to being vaccinated) it does nothing to reduce severity of the subsequent infection (in contrast to vaccination) - that is anecdotal level btw, theres little conclusive evidence one way or the other - so far in Vic the event itself (reinfection) is not common due to previously low infection rates (the main case that sticks is one who got COVID in april 2022, didn't need to go to hospital, then got delta in November and needed intubation); while I am also aware of 2-3 other cases of reinfection which were mild I don't have the data to support actively trying to catch covid

that said i'm resigned to inevitably catching it at some point - maybe already had it and didn't realise

 

[Seeds]

Would that argument not also apply to vaccines?

It seems to me as though the vaccination justification beyond the initial necessity to protect against more virulent strains is beginning to look pretty weak (for the otherwise healthy).

Vaccination is also about protecting the unhealty, sick and old.

is it to much to get a needle to help others?

Have you ever known someone on cancer? people currently on radiation treatment are extremely compromised to covid Even with their own vaccinations. I know some and they are refusing to leave the house and have visitors at the moment cos of covid.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Vaccination is also about protecting the unhealty, sick and old.

is it to much to get a needle to help others?

Have you ever known someone on cancer? people currently on radiation treatment are extremely compromised to covid Even with their own vaccinations. I know some and they are refusing to leave the house and have visitors at the moment cos of covid.

Protecting others was my main motivation for getting vaccinated the first time around. We were told it prevented transmission. It doesn't.

 

[Seeds]

Protecting others was my main motivation for getting vaccinated the first time around. We were told it prevented transmission. It doesn't.

It minimises the likelihood you will get it and if you do it minimises the infectious period. Both of these facts help prevent transmissin.

the problem is that the first two doeses largely wore off after 6 months. its not that it didnt work. It just wore off. Evidence points to boosters being highly effective. The question is whether it too will wear off. hopefullh not.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

It minimises the likelihood you will get it and if you do it minimises the infectious period. Both of these facts help prevent transmissin.

the problem is that the first two doeses largely wore off after 6 months. its not that it didnt work. It just wore off. Evidence points to boosters being highly effective. The question is whether it too will wear off. hopefullh not.

It's at the point where it is little different to other infectious diseases.

 

[Clems Knee]

It's at the point where it is little different to other infectious diseases.

Liar.

 

[Seeds]

It's at the point where it is little different to other infectious diseases.

For people with vaccines that havent wore off.

for the unvaccinated this is not the case.

30 year olds dont die of flu.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

For people with vaccines that havent wore off.

for the unvaccinated this is not the case.

30 year olds dont die of flu.

What??

 

[Pessimistic]

Maybe a factor is there are far more people not even knowing they have it, but are passing it on.

 

[Crankyhawk]

For people with vaccines that havent wore off.

for the unvaccinated this is not the case.

30 year olds dont die of flu.

They do, but it is a rare event. Was one of the issues with swine flu in 2009 in that it was30-50 year olds who seemed to be quite sick in hospital (and yes died)
This doesn’t detract from the point that omicron for the unvaccinated is probably in a similar ballpark of severity as swine flu (itself an illness where the vaccination did not have good effect)