Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[Aussie in exile]

So joining a cricket club to get a seat at the AFL isnt strange to you ?
The influence this cricket club has on our national competition is fine for you. I disagree, whats best for the AFL should be in the hands of footy, particularly where the AFL administration are very slow to flex their muscles (footy crowds). Acceptance of a deal between the encumbents behind closed doors is symptomatic of poor culture.
That the idea that the deal stinks is unacceptable to some begs the question of why?

I don't like to disagree with you on any matter, but the ground is called the Melbourne Cricket Ground and they hold all the aces.
There isn't enough money in our kitty to buy prime estate in Melbourne and build a 100,000 seat stadium and continue funding clubs.

 

[doppleganger]

I don't like to disagree with you on any matter, but the ground is called the Melbourne Cricket Ground and they hold all the aces.
There isn't enough money in our kitty to buy prime estate in Melbourne and build a 100,000 seat stadium and continue funding clubs.

If the ground was called the Melbourne Football Ground, the membership would also have a different name.

It is just ridiculous how he keeps on blabbing on about what is a stadium membership as anything else.

The overwhelming majority of MCC and AFL members also have AFL club membership support.

And there are a similar level of Brisbane Lions and Sydney Swan MCC members as there are Dogs.

 

[Kwality]

I don't like to disagree with you on any matter, but the ground is called the Melbourne Cricket Ground and they hold all the aces.
There isn't enough money in our kitty to buy prime estate in Melbourne and build a 100,000 seat stadium and continue funding clubs.

Say it as you see it - I understand the sentiment & once Waverley was sold the only alternative was to put footy first in a town where the MCC is the most sought after expression of 'made it'.
Putting footy first is not a decision that ignores clubs performance in favour of a postcode, year in/year out.

 

[Kwality]

So here you are admitting you are battling with the concept.

'Acceptance of a deal between the encumbents behind closed doors is symptomatic of poor culture.'

Its not as if the administration were unaware of interest from other States .... locking them out to ensure continuation of the status quo was a conscious decision not a concept.

 

[Grin]

Do you understand is more to the point?

You keep raving on and on about the MCC members being cricket club members and some have tried to explain why football fans are members of the MCC.
But you dismiss all that and just keep going on and on about it, so it gets explained again and again, but it just doesn't sink in.

I've come to learn that trying to reason with these people is as useless as trying to reason with an anti-vaccer or religious fanatic. Their opinion has no basis in reason or logic. It's based on irrational but overwhelming feelings of victimisation and entitlement.
If the rules were changed so that their club got to play every game at home, against an opposition of only one player, blind folded with arms tied behind his back, and then given a 10 goal head start, they'd still be endlessly whinging about the injustice of it all and how all Victorians are bad and evil people and not working nearly hard enough to deliver them everything they feel entitled to.
It's a cultural thing god love 'em

 

[Kwality]

I've come to learn that trying to reason with these people is as useless as trying to reason with an anti-vaccer or religious fanatic. Their opinion has no basis in reason or logic. It's based on irrational but overwhelming feelings of victimisation and entitlement.
If the rules were changed so that their club got to play every game at home, against an opposition of only one player, blind folded with arms tied behind his back, and then given a 10 goal head start, they'd still be endlessly whinging about the injustice of it all and how all Victorians are bad and evil people and not working nearly hard enough to deliver them everything they feel entitled to.
It's a cultural thing god love 'em

The Melbourne centric AFL does not exist ...
What is you definition of home, the 1920s version that rules our game? A different car park under a stadium decides 'home' or 'away' ....

 

[LoungeLizard]

'Acceptance of a deal between the encumbents behind closed doors is symptomatic of poor culture.'

Its not as if the administration were unaware of interest from other States .... locking them out to ensure continuation of the status quo was a conscious decision not a concept.

That's not what I or you were talking about though was it?

You have been told numerous times why footy fans are members of the MCC, yet you just can't grasp it.

Just because they do things different over in the west, does not make it right, maybe if it did we all would have joined a West Australian led comp, but no, they all jumped for the Vic ran comp, hmmmmmmm.

 

[kranky al]

I don't like to disagree with you on any matter, but the ground is called the Melbourne Cricket Ground and they hold all the aces.
There isn't enough money in our kitty to buy prime estate in Melbourne and build a 100,000 seat stadium and continue funding clubs.

I've come to learn that trying to reason with these people is as useless as trying to reason with an anti-vaccer or religious fanatic. Their opinion has no basis in reason or logic. It's based on irrational but overwhelming feelings of victimisation and entitlement.
If the rules were changed so that their club got to play every game at home, against an opposition of only one player, blind folded with arms tied behind his back, and then given a 10 goal head start, they'd still be endlessly whinging about the injustice of it all and how all Victorians are bad and evil people and not working nearly hard enough to deliver them everything they feel entitled to.
It's a cultural thing god love 'em

Id just love to debate you on this subject against three elite athletes from american football, basketball and uk soccer.

Absolutely love watching you trying to justify your bullshit on how playing grand finals at your home ground isnt at advantage and how hard it is travelling 5 times a year is tougher than 10.

Be funking hilarious

 

[Kwality]

That's not what I or you were talking about though was it?

You have been told numerous times why footy fans are members of the MCC, yet you just can't grasp it.

Just because they do things different over in the west, does not make it right, maybe if it did we all would have joined a West Australian led comp, but no, they all jumped for the Vic ran comp, hmmmmmmm.

Oh I grasp it, the fact is the MCC have a big influence on the AFL & the GF deal underwrites that influence that excludes a big number of AFL fans.
That Vic fans accept that as a fait accompli, or simple entitlement, will never remove the stench around the deal & the decisions taken behind closed doors, thus excluding a contract that might exclude any of the encumbents.
All it would have taken to remove that stench is transparency including other interested parties 'putting up'. Not hard.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Oh I grasp it, the fact is the MCC have a big influence on the AFL & the GF deal underwrites that influence that excludes a big number of AFL fans.
That Vic fans accept that as a fait accompli, or simple entitlement, will never remove the stench around the deal & the decisions taken behind closed doors, thus excluding a contract that might exclude any of the encumbents.
All it would have taken to remove that stench is transparency including other interested parties 'putting up'. Not hard.

You think you do, but you when you accuse others of not understanding, it shows you really don't, you even tried to compare the MCC with the WACA for christ sake.


The AFL/VFL went from being broke to a multi billion dollar league and you're trying to tell them to get rid of the MCC.

 

[GWT6]

Why no outrage from the OP about the SANFL GF always held in South Australia, or the WAFL always in Perth? You want those moved also?

 

[The_Wookie]

Id just love to debate you on this subject against three elite athletes from american football, basketball and uk soccer.

Absolutely love watching you trying to justify your bullshit on how playing grand finals at your home ground isnt at advantage and how hard it is travelling 5 times a year is tougher than 10.

Be funking hilarious

besides being a completely different sport in a completely different country, Given the VFL-AFL has been around longer - and played its grand finals at the MCG longer - than the NFL (founded 1920), NBA (1946) and EPL (1992) have existed for - Im not sure how foreign athletes from these sports help your case with anything.

 

[Kwality]

You think you do, but you when you accuse others of not understanding, it shows you really don't, you even tried to compare the MCC with the WACA for christ sake.


The AFL/VFL went from being broke to a multi billion dollar league and you're trying to tell them to get rid of the MCC.

Not get rid of the MCC ... strengthen the games hand to deal with the national game for the benefit of the national game.
For example every 2nd GF at the G or any variation thereof.

Of course the MCC would huff & puff BUT there would be no choice, there is not another game in town that will fill the membership numbers.

The stench ensured the status quo was entrenched.

 

[Kwality]

Why no outrage from the OP about the SANFL GF always held in South Australia, or the WAFL always in Perth? You want those moved also?

Just as the VFL GF .... & you are serious?
Does it reflect your sense of entitlement ?

 

[GWT6]

Just as the VFL GF .... & you are serious?
Does it reflect your sense of entitlement ?

Join a Vic competition, play the GF in Victoria. If Casey decided to Join the WAFL I wouldn't expect them to play the GF at suburban gound miles from the rest of the comp, so maybe have a look at who has the misplaced entitlement.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not get rid of the MCC ... strengthen the games hand to deal with the national game for the benefit of the national game.
For example every 2nd GF at the G or any variation thereof.

Of course the MCC would huff & puff BUT there would be no choice, there is not another game in town that will fill the membership numbers.

The stench ensured the status quo was entrenched.

Ok, you have been told this before, so let's see if this time you understand.

The deal with the MCC members is they have access to the AFL grand final, if the grand final is moved there is a big chance, the MCC lose members , so "huff & puff" might not be the right wording.
The reason the MCC value it's members is they help pay for any upgrades, that in turn stops tax payers from paying the bills, that in turn makes the Vic government happy.

All this is why the MCC and Vic government push for the grand final deal, if another state wants to host the Grand Final, then you need to push the state governments to get some deals going, because the Vic government is not going away, you can call that corrupt, dodgy sleazy, whatever, but that's how it is and until another state offer something better, that's how it will stay.

 

[doppleganger]

Id just love to debate you on this subject against three elite athletes from american football, basketball and uk soccer.

Absolutely love watching you trying to justify your bullshit on how playing grand finals at your home ground isnt at advantage and how hard it is travelling 5 times a year is tougher than 10.

Be funking hilarious

Yeah, their first point will be why the feck does the nominated home team not have 95% of the crowd support....that is the characteristic of an NBA, EPL or NFL home game.

Wonder if you will ask the NBA player whether they find playing on exactly the same courts in perfect indoor conditions somehow challenging at a gym they haven't played at before.

 

[Papa G]

besides being a completely different sport in a completely different country, Given the VFL-AFL has been around longer - and played its grand finals at the MCG longer - than the NFL (founded 1920), NBA (1946) and EPL (1992) have existed for - Im not sure how foreign athletes from these sports help your case with anything.

Mmm. So you are claiming the EPL is a completely different League to the old First Division? Cool. The AFL started in 1990.

 

[The_Wookie]

Mmm. So you are claiming the EPL is a completely different League to the old First Division? Cool. The AFL started in 1990.

Im not claiming anything. Its one of those pesky facts you should already know. The EPL was very much a breakway league - separating itself from The Football League with consent and assistance from the Football Association.

as noted by the Premier leagues website

"On 20 February 1992, the 22 First Division clubs resigned from the Football League en masse and three months later, on 27 May, the Premier League was established as a limited company."

The AFL was not a breakway league of anything, unbroken history since 1897.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Im not claiming anything. Its one of those pesky facts you should already know. The EPL was very much a breakway league - separating itself from The Football League with consent and assistance from the Football Association.

as noted by the Premier leagues website

"On 20 February 1992, the 22 First Division clubs resigned from the Football League en masse and three months later, on 27 May, the Premier League was established as a limited company."

The AFL was not a breakway league of anything, unbroken history since 1897.

I'm not sure it's a breakaway league in the truest sense of the meaning.
There is still promotion and relegation between the EPL and the FL and both are under the umbrella of the FA
Premier league clubs still take part in the FL cup and the FA cup

 

[kranky al]

Yeah, their first point will be why the feck does the nominated home team not have 95% of the crowd support....that is the characteristic of an NBA, EPL or NFL home game.

Wonder if you will ask the NBA player whether they find playing on exactly the same courts in perfect indoor conditions somehow challenging at a gym they haven't played at before.

Sooouuurrrccceee: https://syndication.bleacherreport....t-is-home-court-advantage-in-the-nba.amp.html

With more than half of the NBA regular season complete, conference seedings begin to capture the attention of NBA fans league wide. Contending teams raise their intensity as they jockey for playoff position, trying to secure home-court advantage in the postseason.

Of the four major American sports, home-court advantage is most meaningful in the NBA, with teams consistently winning around 60 percent of their regular season games in their home arenas.

But does this trend carry over into the playoffs?

Statistics drawn from NBA.com help answer that question with a resounding yes. In fact, the following numbers show that is it harder to win on the road in the postseason than it is to win on the road in the regular season.

From 1998-2008, home teams in the regular season won 7,021 games while losing 4,569 games for a winning percentage of 60.6.

During this same period of time, home teams in the postseason won 513 games while losing only 278. The winning percentage in the playoffs for home teams was 64.9 (more than four percentage points higher than it was for home teams in the regular season).

However, some of this disparity can be explained away by the nature of playoff seeding. The teams finishing with better regular season records are the ones given home-court advantage in the postseason.

Therefore, it is difficult to determine how much of a team's home-court success can be attributed to the fans and the arena as opposed to the fact that they are simply the better team in a particular matchup.

To try to answer some of the differences between playing on the road and playing at home, let's analyze the statistics:

When at home (between 2003-2011) compared to on the road, teams decreased their turnovers by 3.1 percent per game, increased scoring by 3.4 percent, increased fast-break points by 12.7 percent and decreased fouls committed by 4.7 percent.

What explains the large disparity in home and away numbers?

Referee bias and the psychological impact of playing at home are two of the biggest factors.

Studies have show that when a crowd is vocal, it impacts the way referees call a game. Albeit subconsciously, referees have historically favored home teams. Between 2003-2011, referees called an average of 22.15 fouls on away teams per game and only 21.13 fouls on home teams.

In addition, the psychological impact of playing at home is a self-sustaining placebo effect: Home-court advantage gives the home team an edge simply because players believe that it does.

Between 1999-2008, a team with home-court advantage in the playoffs won more than three out of four series. In the first round, home teams won series at a rate of 81.3 percent. In the conference semifinals, home teams won 80 percent of the time. In the conference finals, it is interesting to note that the winning percentage dropped to 50 percent. In the NBA Finals, it climbed back up to 80 percent.

 

[The_Wookie]

I'm not sure it's a breakaway league in the truest sense of the meaning.
There is still promotion and relegation between the EPL and the FL and both are under the umbrella of the FA
Premier league clubs still take part in the FL cup and the FA cup

Thats only due to the intervention of the FA. Every article and every piece of literature on the subject is very clear that the EPL broke away from the Football League.

The FA didnt run the divisions, but they were the governing body for football in the UK - and since they felt the Football League had too much power, were only too happy to back the new league. In the end the EPL was literally parachuted over the top of the Football League ran divisions, who all effectively dropped down a level.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Thats only due to the intervention of the FA. Every article and every piece of literature on the subject is very clear that the EPL broke away from the Football League.

The FA didnt run the divisions, but they were the governing body for football in the UK - and since they felt the Football League had too much power, were only too happy to back the new league. In the end the EPL was literally parachuted over the top of the Football League ran divisions, who all effectively dropped down a level.

A true breakaway league would have meant no P & R between the EPL and FL that is still going on and always will.
Before the EFL was formed there as 92 clubs in the top 4 flights and there still is.
Apart from the top flight changing it's name to the EPL for TV money from Murdoch nothing has altered.

 

[The_Wookie]

A true breakaway league would have meant no P & R between the EPL and FL that is still going on and always will.
Before the EFL was formed there as 92 clubs in the top 4 flights and there still is.
Apart from the top flight changing it's name to the EPL for TV money from Murdoch nothing has altered.

that there is P&R doesnt mean the EPL didnt breakway from the control and operation of the Football League and form a new operation. This actually happened as per the Premier Leagues own website. The tier system remains only though the intervention of the FA. The Football League plays no part in the control or operation of the EPL.

 

[Kwality]

I think I said I understand why some feel a need to maintain the status quo, & its not just me that a different view on our national competition some 30 years on.
As a Victorian taxpayer I understand why the 'behind closed door' sleazy deal was done & equity of the national comp was never a consideration.