Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[Grin]

This actually isn't about MCG tennant win rates in the Gand Final. Even if it was the use of the last 2 Grand finals in Brisbane and Perth is a red herring because neither Richmond or Melbourne won against a Gabba or Optus Tennant.

The crux of the thread is how the interests of the Victorian Government and MCC and by extention certain Victorian clubs have been put ahead of the probity of competition itself. The corrupt and non commercial backdoor dealings where the AFL is beholden to a State Government who act as some benevolent puppet master who's goal is entiemrely self interest rather than fairness. Its a diabolical and disgraceful way to run a sporting competition.

Problem with your argument is that there is no evidence of a lack of parity, unless you're talking about the significant advantage that non-Vic clubs have over Vic based clubs.

Look, I know you feel extremely entitled and want many more unsporting leg-ups for your club than it already gets. And whilst I don't know how you developed such an intractibel inferiority complex, you've demonstrated that you're prepared to whinge and moan and complain until Victorians deliver what ever you feel your club needs to gain unearned success. But please realise that you don't earn respect by being an infernal whinger. It's tiresome and makes you and the other whingers on this thread look bloody pathetic.

Again, the pretext of unbearable injustice, which goes to the heart of your whinging simply does not and never has existed. Not that I expect reality and very basic facts to get between you and your infernal whinging and whining.

 

[Papa G]

Problem with your argument is that there is no evidence of a lack of parity, unless you're talking about the significant advantage that non-Vic clubs have over Vic based clubs.

Look, I know you feel extremely entitled and want many more unsporting leg-ups for your club than it already gets. And whilst I don't know how you developed such an intractibel inferiority complex, you've demonstrated that you're prepared to whinge and moan and complain until Victorians deliver what ever you feel your club needs to gain unearned success. But please realise that you don't earn respect by being an infernal whinger. It's tiresome and makes you and the other whingers on this thread look bloody pathetic.

Again, the pretext of unbearable injustice, which goes to the heart of your whinging simply does not and never has existed. Not that I expect reality and very basic facts to get between you and your infernal whinging and whining.

You miss the point. Again.

 

[Grin]

You miss the point. Again.

Well. You'd better have another whinge then.

 

[bh90210fan]

I stopped reading there.
I'm working off a bigger sample size

Sure you are

 

[Grin]

Sure you are

If basic facts and stats don't work for you, you can always substitute reasoning with whinging. Like you've obviously learned through your childhood: If you keep whinging and whinging and whinging, people might eventually tire and gift you what you feel entitled to, but are to lazy or incompetent to earn.

Bloody pathetic.

 

[bh90210fan]

If basic facts and stats don't work for you, you can always substitute reasoning with whinging. Like you've obviously learned through your childhood: If you keep whinging and whinging and whinging, people might eventually tire and gift you what you feel entitled to, but are to lazy or incompetent to earn.

Bloody pathetic.

Speaking of lazy and incompetent, maybe you could provide us with some basic stats instead of making s**t up

 

[Grin]

Speaking of lazy and incompetent, maybe you could provide us with some basic stats instead of making sh*t up

Already have. Many times.
I giggle at your clumsy attempts to whingily project.

Since 1990, Non Vic clubs have statistically more chance of making the to 8 and the top 4.
They get a clear advantage in the home and away season. The stat is even more stark if we compare to Melbourne based clubs to non Melbourne based clubs. In the period since 1990, Grand Finals between Victorian and non-Victorian clubs were won equally. Grand finals between MCG tenants and interstate clubs were won equally.

Your whinge that your club faces unbearable injustice has no basis in reality. It's simply based on your insatiable feelings of entitlement and your overwhelming need to whinge infernally that others aren't doing enough to deliver all you feel entitled to.

How about trying this for an exercise: See if you can go for a whole day without boring the s**t out of everyone with your tireless whinging and complaining. I bet you can't.

 

[bh90210fan]

Already have. Many times.
I giggle at your clumsy attempts to whingily project.

Since 1990, Non Vic clubs have statistically more chance of making the to 8 and the top 4.
They get a clear advantage in the home and away season. The stat is even more stark if we compare to Melbourne based clubs to non Melbourne based clubs. In the period since 1990, Grand Finals between Victorian and non-Victorian clubs were won equally. Grand finals between MCG tenants and interstate clubs were won equally.

Your whinge that your club faces unbearable injustice has no basis in reality. It's simply based on your insatiable feelings of entitlement and your overwhelming need to whinge infernally that others aren't doing enough to deliver all you feel entitled to.

How about trying this for an exercise: See if you can go for a whole day without boring the sh*t out of everyone with your tireless whinging and complaining. I bet you can't.

Where are your stats? I’ve seen you make assumptions. Many times. But never provide anything to back them up.

 

[Grin]

Where are your stats? I’ve seen you make assumptions. Many times. But never provide anything to back them up.

They've been provided on many occasions, and I'm happy to provide them again. Although I fear that I would be completely wasting my time because, as has happened every time in the past, when ever I or others provide you with the basic facts and stats (easily accessible to anyone who isn't a lazy incompetent whinger), you and the other entitled whingers completely ignore them because they don't fit your whingy victim narrative.
So, if I do provide you with those stats, will you agree that there is no injustice apart from the disadvantages dished out by the AFL to Melbourne based clubs? Or will I be wasting my time as you have no intention of ever stopping your whinging and complaining and harping and hissy fitting and tantruming?

 

[bh90210fan]

They've been provided on many occasions, and I'm happy to provide them again. Although I fear that I would be completely wasting my time because, as has happened every time in the past, when ever I or others provide you with the basic facts and stats (easily accessible to anyone who isn't a lazy incompetent whinger), you and the other entitled whingers completely ignore them because they don't fit your whingy victim narrative.
So, if I do provide you with those stats, will you agree that there is no injustice apart from the disadvantages dished out by the AFL to Melbourne based clubs? Or will I be wasting my time as you have no intention of ever stopping your whinging and complaining and harping and hissy fitting and tantruming?

Please do provide them again, just don’t go changing the narrative now. You’ve been blabbering on about how non Victorian sides have an advantage over Victorian sides in the h&a. I can assure you that the stats don’t say that at all.

 

[Aussie in exile]

So Victorian corporates & cricket members are more important than fairness

No doubt you are a MCC member who would prefer that his own team played grand finals on his home deck

Not a coincidence it's supporters of clubs whose home ground is the MCG who are arguing the hardest for it to remain that way to selfishly protect their interests even if inequitable.

Says much about you as people...

For the AFL money is the most important thing.

 

[The_Wookie]

For the AFL money is the most important thing.

Well its literally why the commission was created. Why the NRL Commssion was created. Why APL was formed.....

These bodies are supposed to generate money after previous incarnations failed.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Well its literally why the commission was created. Why the NRL Commssion was created. Why APL was formed.....

These bodies are supposed to generate money after previous incarnations failed.

I don't disagree just pointing out a fact.

 

[Grin]

Please do provide them again, just don’t go changing the narrative now. You’ve been blabbering on about how non Victorian sides have an advantage over Victorian sides in the h&a. I can assure you that the stats don’t say that at all.

If they do, do you promise to stop your infernal whinging and agree that West Coast is not disadvantaged, but in fact significantly advantaged? And that the advantages the AFL gifts you are likely to result in undeserved final 8 and final 4 finishes for your franchise?
Will you challenge your fellow entitled whingers to also drop their persecution delusion, stop whinging and agree that non Melbourne based clubs are, overall, advantaged over Melbourne based clubs?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Are you shitting me??

Stats about MCG tenants performance in GFs are what the ******* thread is about!!

And the stats show, they have a better win rate away from the G than at the G!

MCG tenant Collingwood doesnt.

The crux of the issue is that you talk "improvements" but all your ideas mean less club members will get tickets.

That aint an improvement.

Over the journey of the AFL, the home team wins 35% more games than the away team. That is a significant advantage. ie. For every 5 games played, the home teams wins roughly 3.

Most of those attending the grand final are NOT members of competing clubs, which is complete BS! If competing club members shared the tickets just like with other venues in finals, then it would be a fairer outcome & reward the grass roots supporters, rather than hanger ons, including cricket members.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You continue to compare generalisations about home ground advantage with Grand Finals played between Victorian and non Victorian teams at the MCG.

Piss poor attempts at "If you don't agree with me you're a f'ing idiot" aren't going to work for you.

Bottom line is the home teams wins 35% more games than the away team.

Why should an MCG tenant have that much more of an advantage?

 

[bh90210fan]

If they do, do you promise to stop your infernal whinging and agree that West Coast is not disadvantaged, but in fact significantly advantaged? And that the advantages the AFL gifts you are likely to result in undeserved final 8 and final 4 finishes for your franchise?
Will you challenge your fellow entitled whingers to also drop their persecution delusion, stop whinging and agree that non Melbourne based clubs are, overall, advantaged over Melbourne based clubs?

If you can prove non Victorian clubs have been statistically advantaged over Victorian clubs overall since the start of the AFL - like you were claiming, youve got a deal.

Now, if I can prove they aren’t advantaged during the h&a, do you agree to acknowledge the fact that MCG tenants get a leg up over the competition, due to the fact they are the only ones to be gifted home ground advantage throughout each finals series - resulting in achievements which may not be warranted?

 

[Grin]

Bottom line is the home teams wins 35% more games than the away team.

Why should an MCG tenant have that much more of an advantage?

There is no evidence of an advantage for MCG base clubs or Melbourne based clubs or Victorian based clubs at the MCG in Grand finals.

Your arguing against an injustice that doesn't exist.

 

[Grin]

If you can prove non Victorian clubs have been statistically advantaged over Victorian clubs overall since the start of the AFL - like you were claiming, youve got a deal.

Now, if I can prove they aren’t advantaged during the h&a, do you agree to acknowledge the fact that MCG tenants get a leg up over the competition, due to the fact they are the only ones to be gifted home ground advantage throughout each finals series - resulting in achievements which may not be warranted?

Good on you and I agree to do the same.
However I'm not absolutely clear what the parameters are so let's just clearly define what we are trying to find evidence for, so that the goal posts aren't continually changed. What you've done is switched your argument from Victorian based clubs in the H&A season to MCG based clubs in finals.

To start with for the home and away season:
Will we compare non-Vic based clubs to Victorian based clubs, or should we refine that to Melbourne based clubs or MCG tenants? Then we can use the same definition for finals and the grand finals

Then we'll need to define a couple of other parameters before we get started, for example, the time frame we are going to use. I propose either 1990 to 2019 or 2000 to 2019.

 

[bh90210fan]

Y

There is no evidence of an advantage for MCG base clubs or Melbourne based clubs or Victorian based clubs at the MCG in Grand finals.

Your arguing against an injustice that doesn't exist.

You know, when Non Victorian sides haven’t won a free kick count in grand finals against Victorian opposition for 11 grannys in a row, some might say you guys are still enjoying the best of what home ground advantage has to offer.

 

[lionbear]

Need the week off between Prelim and Granbd Final which clearly this year didn't work well.

Once that's sorted no reason why it cant move around country every second year, without week off too much on WA clubs going to Queensland and Visa Versa for Grand Final to work elsewhere.

 

[Grin]

Y

You know, when Non Victorian sides haven’t won a free kick count in grand finals against Victorian opposition for 11 grannys in a row, some might say you guys are still enjoying the best of what home ground advantage has to offer.

The best comparison I think is Collingwood and West Coast in 2018
On 08 September, in West Australia, West Coast beat Collingwood by 16 points. On 29 September at the MCG, West Coast beat Collingwood by 5 points. That's an 11 point margin. Divide that by 2 and you're left with 5.5 point home ground advantage for each team. It's obviously a tiny sample size which is a qualitative indication of an approx 1 goal HGA for a MCG tennant vs an non-Vic club on Grand Final day. Using more quantitative samples such as all grand finals between non-Vic and Victorian based clubs or all grand finals between MCG tennants and non-Vic clubs, the results are precisely even.

 

[bh90210fan]

Good on you and I agree to do the same.
However I'm not absolutely clear what the parameters are so let's just clearly define what we are trying to find evidence for, so that the goal posts aren't continually changed. What you've done is switched your argument from Victorian based clubs in the H&A season to MCG based clubs in finals.

To start with for the home and away season:
Will we compare non-Vic based clubs to Victorian based clubs, or should we refine that to Melbourne based clubs or MCG tenants? Then we can use the same definition for finals and the grand finals

Then we'll need to define a couple of other parameters before we get started, for example, the time frame we are going to use. I propose either 1990 to 2019 or 2000 to 2019.

FMD. You think non Victorian sides are over represented in the top 8 / 4 / 2 since 1990, just prove that.

The simple fact that you are the only group to have home finals gifted to you is enough proof anyone needs in regards to the rest of it.

 

[bh90210fan]

The best comparison I think is Collingwood and West Coast in 2018
On 08 September, in West Australia, West Coast beat Collingwood by 16 points. On 29 September at the MCG, West Coast beat Collingwood by 5 points. That's an 11 point margin. Divide that by 2 and you're left with 5.5 point home ground advantage for each team. It's obviously a tiny sample size which is a qualitative indication of an approx 1 goal HGA for a MCG tennant vs an non-Vic club on Grand Final day. Using more quantitative samples such as all grand finals between non-Vic and Victorian based clubs or all grand finals between MCG tennants and non-Vic clubs, the results are precisely even.

Insert Billy Maddison gif

 

[Grin]

FMD. You think non Victorian sides are over represented in the top 8 / 4 / 2 since 1990, just prove that.

The simple fact that you are the only group to have home finals gifted to you is enough proof anyone needs in regards to the rest of it.

Again you're employing 2 goal posts at the same time
1: Victorian Vs Non-Vic clubs, and MCG tenants vs tenants of Marvel Stadium and GMBH stadium in finals which doesn't really have anything to do with the whole Vic vs non-Vic unbearable injustice argument.

This is the thing, you can't identify any evidence that non-Vic clubs are disadvantaged so you keep moving the goal posts, in this case arguing 2 opposed positions in the same post.

Lets define our terms, set the parameters and go from there.