Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

[adogsfan5]

Andrews said yesterday that Victoria is about to move to "literally no rules".

This pedantry on "let it rip" is tiring and unhelpful. Most places are now close to moving on and coming as close to possible to "living with the virus". It's very possible we've reached the limit of what governments can do to drive down cases without "Wuhan-style" solutions like welding people into their houses.

Correct. We’re moving on.

 

[Sttew]

You asked why the cutoff was year 3. In fact, you claimed that decision was possibly of an arbitrary nature. The reasoning was provided that proved that it wasn't arbitrary at all.

That is entirely different to the argument as to whether masks are needed for any kids. You went from one argument to another argument and conflated the two.

Personally I do not think that masks are especially necessary for kids. But the reasoning (for those who think masks are still somewhat necessary) behind making it for years 3-6 is logical based on vaccination data and the fact that little kids won't comply.

See...two different arguments that you have conflated into one. That is my issue with this line of discussion. Had you just said that you don't think masks are necessary for kids then that can't even be queried along partisan lines. I vote Labor and I don't think they are necessary. But you disingenuously went from querying whether the decision on age cutoff was arbitrary and didn't like it when the reasons were pointed out. Do you really think that Andrews, Foley, Sutton and co all took a set against kids of a certain age? Of course they didn't. That would have been arbitrary. They used whatever data they had, whether you agree with it or not.

FYI - arbitrary means random in nature. You are literally suggesting that the Victorian Government just threw one at the dartboard and decided to mask up kids in years 3 to 6 for no reason at all.

I said I was moving on but will respond to this post. I haven't conflated two distinct arguments. I don't believe face masks should be worn by primary school students and I also believe the decision to have a grade 3 cut-off was arbitrary in nature. Afterall what is it about grade 3 kids that distinguishes them from grade 2? (There are schools in country Victoria where you have combined Gr 2 & 3 classes).

Do I really think that Andrews, Foley, Sutton and co all took a set against kids of a certain age? I honestly don't know! If they showed us the data relied upon, not just vaccination rates, then I'd have a better understanding. The same people closed playgrounds. As I posted earlier we are the only state in Australia that has continued to impose the face mask rule on primary school kids. Now, seriously, I'm moving on...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I said I was moving on but will respond to this post. I haven't conflated two distinct arguments. I don't believe face masks should be worn by primary school students and I also believe the decision to have a grade 3 cut-off was arbitrary in nature. Afterall what is it about grade 3 kids that distinguishes them from grade 2? (There are schools in country Victoria where you have combined Gr 2 & 3 classes).

Do I really think that Andrews, Foley, Sutton and co all took a set against kids of a certain age? I honestly don't know! If they showed us the data relied upon, not just vaccination rates, then I'd have a better understanding. The same people closed playgrounds. As I posted earlier we are the only state in Australia that has continued to impose the face mask rule on primary school kids. Now, seriously, I'm moving on...

The vaccination data is what lead to the decision. The fact that smaller kids won't wear masks also lead to the decision.

I don't think you understand what the word arbitrary means.

The decision was not arbitrary. Whether or not you agree with it is a moot point.

 

[Cats2022]

Have people who didn’t get vaxxed got their jobs back? Strangest rule in my life time.

 

[adogsfan5]

Have people who didn’t get vaxxed got their jobs back? Strangest rule in my life time.

Nup. Mandates are still in place. Besides aged care and health care workers, my opinion is that we need to move past it. It has served its point.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Nup. Mandates are still in place. Besides aged care and health care workers, my opinion is that we need to move past it. It has served its point.

I'm on the fence.

Close mate and my supervisor are these new age anti vaxxer. They haven't been working for awhile now, on unpaid leave.

I don't agree with any government mandating a jab.

But

Majority of society got jabbed with hesitation, so I say * them let them rot at home.

 

[adogsfan5]

I'm on the fence.

Close mate and my supervisor are these new age anti vaxxer. They haven't been working for awhile now, on unpaid leave.

Majority of society got jabbed with hesitation, so I say fu** them let them rot at home.

I don’t judge people who don’t want it and who keep their opinions to themselves. I care about anti vaxxers who go out of their way to try change the minds of others.
I think this gets overlooked way too much. The mandate has served his purpose - it got people vaccinated. Once we are highly boostered it’s time to get them out of the unemployment line and back to work.

Just my opinion.

 

[FIGJAM]

Letting Covid rip simply means allowing the virus to circulate in the community. I haven’t seen any conditional definition

Complete bollocks! It's an emotive term that implies a flagrant disregard for human life and is weaponised as such.

 

[Saint]

I don’t judge people who don’t want it and who keep their opinions to themselves. I care about anti vaxxers who go out of their way to try change the minds of others.
I think this gets overlooked way too much. The mandate has served his purpose - it got people vaccinated. Once we are highly boostered it’s time to get them out of the unemployment line and back to work.

Just my opinion.

They still pose a greater risk to society than others, so there should be some industries they're still restricted from (i.e. hospitality, health, aged care). They're more likely to catch it and have higher viral loads. New research has just come out that the higher the initial contact load, the higher the chance of Long COVID. So unvaxxed people are still a higher risk to society.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I'm on the fence.

Close mate and my supervisor are these new age anti vaxxer. They haven't been working for awhile now, on unpaid leave.

I don't agree with any government mandating a jab.

But

Majority of society got jabbed with hesitation, so I say fu** them let them rot at home.

And the bastards won't let us smoke at work anymore, and when I get pissed in a pub, they bastards stop serving me

And don't get me started on having to stop at Red Traffic Lights...and what about seat belts??

Bloody Government!!

 

[chunkylover53]

And the bastards won't let us smoke at work anymore, and when I get pissed in a pub, they bastards stop serving me

And don't get me started on having to stop at Red Traffic Lights...and what about seat belts??

Bloody Government!!

I don't understand this argument.

If mandating a jab was as simple as the above rules, why is it so hard for Governments to implement?

 

[Gough]

And the bastards won't let us smoke at work anymore, and when I get pissed in a pub, they bastards stop serving me

And don't get me started on having to stop at Red Traffic Lights...and what about seat belts??

Bloody Government!!

Funny how the Libs here love to hang s**t on Andrews but can't bring themselves to defend the Feds. Despite Australia's electoral history you get the feeling that most of their supporters are happier in opposition whinging about things than they are defending their party's actions in government.

 

[Saint]

Funny how the Libs here love to hang sh*t on Andrews but can't bring themselves to defend the Feds. Despite Australia's electoral history you get the feeling that most of their supporters are happier in opposition whinging about things than they are defending their party's actions in government.

It's all they do when they're in Govt. The Morrison Govt has just undone good things the Rudd/Gillard Govt did. Carbon pricing, gutting NDIS, lowering hospital funding, tax cuts for the well-off.

Baillieu/Napthine did even less in Vic, last time they were in charge. Vic politics is progress under the ALP, then when people have had enough progress, they vote in the LNP for a term, there's a 4-year pause, then back to progress. Victoria is a progressive state.

Australia outside of dense population centres is not a progressive country. Hence the more frequent election of LNP Comm Govts.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I don't understand this argument.

If mandating a jab was as simple as the above rules, why is it so hard for Governments to implement?

Its not, get jabbed or no work

Same as smoking. You want to smoke, do it elsewhere not at work

 

[chunkylover53]

Its not, get jabbed or no work

Same as smoking. You want to smoke, do it elsewhere not at work

But it is. Barely any countries have successfully blanket-mandated it. Most countries have for Government jobs etc., but from my knowledge, very few with a full mandate. If it were as simple as a seatbelt mandate, there would be more mandates.

 

[adogsfan5]

They still pose a greater risk to society than others, so there should be some industries they're still restricted from (i.e. hospitality, health, aged care). They're more likely to catch it and have higher viral loads. New research has just come out that the higher the initial contact load, the higher the chance of Long COVID. So unvaxxed people are still a higher risk to society.

Yep all fair points!

 

[Sttew]

Funny how the Libs here love to hang sh*t on Andrews but can't bring themselves to defend the Feds. Despite Australia's electoral history you get the feeling that most of their supporters are happier in opposition whinging about things than they are defending their party's actions in government.

The very same argument applies in reverse!!!!! You guys love hanging s**t on Scomo, and I will admit it is deserved, but criticise Dan for anything, hell no! He gaslights, lies and cajoles, but in your eyes he can do no wrong.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

But it is. Barely any countries have successfully blanket-mandated it. Most countries have for Government jobs etc., but from my knowledge, very few with a full mandate. If it were as simple as a seatbelt mandate, there would be more mandates.

You know those Goal Posts which were over there?.....you moved them over there

But luckily I spotted it

 

[Gough]

The very same argument applies in reverse!!!!! You guys love hanging sh*t on Scomo, and I will admit it is deserved, but criticise Dan for anything, hell no! He gaslights, lies and cajoles, but in your eyes he can do no wrong.

Not really, there are plenty of people here who have and will defend Labor in government, it's difficult to find to many who are happy to do the same with the Libs at the moment. It's similar to when Gillard was in power, plenty of the people who happily hung s**t on her with all the hyperbole that was redolent of the era still tread these boards but almost all of them disappeared before Abbott's first budget and I doubt they'll be back until there's a change of government federally.

 

[The Punter]

Classic rhetorical device: argue your point in a method that is acceptable to me.

Meanwhile, back to the subject of this thread: Daniel Andrews.

 

[chunkylover53]

You know those Goal Posts which were over there?.....you moved them over there

But luckily I spotted it

Not my fault you said it was as simple as a seatbelt mandate.

 

[Gough]

Classic rhetorical device: argue your point in a method that is acceptable to me.

Meanwhile, back to the subject of this thread: Daniel Andrews.

Better than arguing that the phrase oxygen thief is akin to some sort of death threat, even from you that was an absolute f***ing doozy.

 

[The Punter]

Better than arguing that the phrase oxygen thief is akin to some sort of death threat, even from you that was an absolute f***ing doozy.

I'd complain, but mods are in charge.

 

[adogsfan5]

Interesting read:

 

[hawkman]

Warrant reveals IBAC probing ‘suspected corrupt conduct’ between Andrews government and firefighters’ union

The Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission has also moved to finalise its probe, telling government and union witnesses they are no longer bound by confidentiality notices.

www.theage.com.au