Kennett the Fashionista

[Gralin]

The perpetuation of the idea that non white people are oppressed and white people are oppressors is highly racist.

In Australia we have massive issues with systemic racism, we have laws and government and agencies enacting this every day, it is highly racist

We have a culture of not accepting this among white Australians as being true

I don't believe your average white australian is able to recognise and understand the levels and types of racism that anyone who isn't white can be subjected to in this country

I also think that specifically with Indigenous people the attempts from our Governments to continue the actions of the past are not over and we don't listen or believe them when it's pointed out, we deny, we excuse, we push back

It's happening in this thread and you point it out and get called racist/divisive whatever, standard

I'm not suggesting that you are racist, but starting with the assumption that someone non white has had an oppressed life and vice versa is highly racist.

Do you think that racism isn't an everyday thing that people who aren't white have to deal with in Australia? Is it the word oppressed that offends you or the idea that racism is an everyday occurrence?

The culture of assumption and generalizations are what lead to a culture of not caring about context or intent.

I mean the classic white supremacist play is to say they way you are fighting back is the reason we don't care and you won't get anywhere

tone policing

My wife (and kids) is black and she would have your head for making the assumption she is oppressed

I'm not assuming she's oppressed but happy to cop it
Would she also have the head of people saying that the Rioli's didn't experience racism and just need to get over it?

absolutely. It’s the assumption that all people of a race are the same that I know she absolutely hates.

I don't think everyone is the same I just don't think white people get to decided what is or isn't racist

 

[Gralin]

Yeah I’m not seeing a difference here

I'm not saying only black people get to decide what is racist, I'm saying white people don't

White people decided what is racist is how we got here

 

[Taylor]

Do you think that racism isn't an everyday thing that people who aren't white have to deal with in Australia? Is it the word oppressed that offends you or the idea that racism is an everyday occurrence?

When I ask my mother in law about her opinion on that she tells me how tired she is of white people patting themselves on the back to tell her how rubbish her life must be. She uses more graphic language.

She thinks there are more white people who treat her like she has a disability than who think she is somehow a lesser form of human.

I don't want either for my children. I think we can aim for the ideal right down the middle where everyone is who they are.

She and I didn't used to get along at all because she didn't think I was good enough for her son but now we are quite close.

I'm not offended on her behalf by you using language like oppressed. I'm projecting your attitude into a wider community and entirely innocently you're creating a world where my children will be treated as victims and diminished simply because people will assume they've had to overcome hurdles above what other people have as a result of being indigenous.

I don't want my children being made victims by well wishing people trying to walk the correct line. I understand that you want the door to be open for people who have to express that and be uplifted so they don't miss out. I do see that. I don't think it's a bad thing.

Maybe you understand my position on it a bit more. Maybe not.

 

[carloss]

In Australia we have massive issues with systemic racism, we have laws and government and agencies enacting this every day, it is highly racist

Examples of systemic racist laws?

 

[Gralin]

When I ask my mother in law about her opinion on that she tells me how tired she is of white people patting themselves on the back to tell her how rubbish her life must be. She uses more graphic language.

OK to be clear I am not saying people who experience racism have rubbish lives, apologies if it came across like that

She thinks there are more white people who treat her like she has a disability than who think she is somehow a lesser form of human.

I'd believe this, does she see this as the result of people trying not to be racist and monumentally ******* it up?

I don't want either for my children. I think we can aim for the ideal right down the middle where everyone is who they are.

She and I didn't used to get along at all because she didn't think I was good enough for her son but now we are quite close.

I'm not offended on her behalf by you using language like oppressed. I'm projecting your attitude into a wider community and entirely innocently you're creating a world where my children will be treated as victims and diminished simply because people will assume they've had to overcome hurdles above what other people have as a result of being indigenous.

I think what I am trying to get at currently is not that the Rioli's if we stick to that example are victims who don't have their own agency and power and strength because clearly that would be wrong.

I'm not saying that Cyril and Sharryn are not capable of defending their views or that someone not agreeing with them is going to break them or stop them living their lives.

I'm saying that we aren't even at the point as a society where we can acknowledge the racism that they experienced without caveats, dismissals etc.

People are down in the weeds trying to say why Kennett's comments were or weren't racist, some pretty bad arguments from both camps.

For me reading the article I thought the most important part of that situation for Cyril and Sharryn is what happened afterwards.

When they brought it up with the club, how the club responded and how Kennett responded and how that linked into a pattern of behaviour over Cyril's whole career

I don't want my children being made victims by well wishing people trying to walk the correct line. I understand that you want the door to be open for people who have to express that and be uplifted so they don't miss out. I do see that. I don't think it's a bad thing.

Maybe you understand my position on it a bit more. Maybe not.

I do and I obviously need better ways to express my views as well

 

[Gralin]

Examples of systemic racist laws?

The Northern Territory Intervention is a clear one

it's way off topic for this thread though

 

[Taylor]

I'd believe this, does she see this as the result of people trying not to be racist and monumentally ******* it up?

Exactly, she says people fall over themselves to show they aren't racist and end up treating her like she is lesser anyway.

I don't think we are that far apart on this issue at all.

 

[Bianconeri]

In Australia we have massive issues with systemic racism, we have laws and government and agencies enacting this every day, it is highly racist

We have a culture of not accepting this among white Australians as being true

I don't believe your average white australian is able to recognise and understand the levels and types of racism that anyone who isn't white can be subjected to in this country

I also think that specifically with Indigenous people the attempts from our Governments to continue the actions of the past are not over and we don't listen or believe them when it's pointed out, we deny, we excuse, we push back

It's happening in this thread and you point it out and get called racist/divisive whatever, standard

I don’t disagree with this, focusing on minor issues that aren’t even racist like Jeff Kennett’s jean joke detracts from all that.

 

[Bianconeri]

I'm not saying only black people get to decide what is racist, I'm saying white people don't

White people decided what is racist is how we got here

Saying one race can’t do something is racist.

We got here by ignoring the real issues in the indigenous community to focus on non issues like this.

 

[hawkman]

Michael Long defending Kennett is something I never thought I would see this week

 

[SuperMal]

Dual replies to the same post, calling me stupid numerous times now. I think you need to cool your jets - I don’t appreciate it.
Yes she’s stated her unhappiness. You’re adding layers of fan fiction.

Sorry...idiocy and argument re-invention annoys me.

Don’t expect it to change...unless you are prepared to stop trolling and stick to the basic tenet of the argument....Was Shannyn ‘out of line’ calling it racism....or does she have the right if she feels it?

All your mindless insinuation and nit picking over analogies and social behaviours I have detailed in good faith simply diminish your credibility.

Grow up, think harder or admit you’re a UAP member.

 

[ElectricG]

Sorry...idiocy and argument re-invention annoys me.

Don’t expect it to change...unless you are prepared to stop trolling and stick to the basic tenet of the argument....Was Shannyn ‘out of line’ calling it racism....or does she have the right if she feels it?

All your mindless insinuation and nit picking over analogies and social behaviours I have detailed in good faith simply diminish your credibility.

She has the right, but she’s wrong.

 

[Hodge1]

Sorry...idiocy and argument re-invention annoys me.

Don’t expect it to change...unless you are prepared to stop trolling and stick to the basic tenet of the argument....Was Shannyn ‘out of line’ calling it racism....or does she have the right if she feels it?

All your mindless insinuation and nit picking over analogies and social behaviours I have detailed in good faith simply diminish your credibility.

Grow up, think harder or admit you’re a UAP member.

Michael Long disagrees with you, I look forward to you diminishing his credibility too.

Edit: link to story for some people.
AFL Indigenous groundbreaker Michael Long says his nephew Cyril Rioli 'needs professional help'

 

[SuperMal]

Michael Long disagrees you, I look forward to you diminishing his credibility too.

AFL Indigenous groundbreaker Michael Long says his nephew Cyril Rioli 'needs professional help'

Congrats....possibly the dumbest comment Ive seen on this forum.

But fwiw......I have no issue with people disagreeing with me....although suggesting Rioli needs ‘professional help’ proves very little. After all Van Gogh was psycho....but that didn’t make him a sh1t painter.

While you struggle with that .........I have issues with muppets who can’t tell the difference between Long’s informed position on racism...which I agree with.............and fools who -

A - Don’t get 90% of what people are saying.
B - Parade their stupidity on this forum in a desperate attempt to avoid learning something and growing up.

But that wouldn’t be you, would it?

 

[hawkman]

Mark Robinson sheds new light in Cyril Rioli story

3AW Football contributor Mark Robinson has revealed that recent media reports involving Cyril Rioli and Hawthorn President Jeff Kennett have “not sat well” with former Essendon star Michael Long. It comes after Caroline Wilson’s report in The Age in which Rioli spoke about a number of incidents...

www.3aw.com.au

 

[SuperMal]

Mark Robinson sheds new light in Cyril Rioli story

3AW Football contributor Mark Robinson has revealed that recent media reports involving Cyril Rioli and Hawthorn President Jeff Kennett have “not sat well” with former Essendon star Michael Long. It comes after Caroline Wilson’s report in The Age in which Rioli spoke about a number of incidents...

www.3aw.com.au

Further complicating the issue...

Is it insensitive to play a ‘stirring joke’ on a ‘troubled’individual?

Does it absolve Kennett from insulting behaviour?

Does it diminish the Rioli‘s feelings...is Long qualified to administer psychotherapy?

Does it justify the ‘whiteys’ view its a ‘beat up’?

Does it simply mean it was one step too far..for them...NOT Michael Long...so they ran and hid.

Or are all Indigenous people the same....thanks to Michael Long?

God..or whoever...help them all....

 

[Hodge1]

Congrats....possibly the dumbest comment Ive seen on this forum.

But fwiw......I have no issue with people disagreeing with me....although suggesting Rioli needs ‘professional help’ proves very little. After all Van Gogh was psycho....but that didn’t make him a sh1t painter.

While you struggle with that .........I have issues with muppets who can’t tell the difference between Long’s informed position on racism...which I agree with.............and fools who -

A - Don’t get 90% of what people are saying.
B - Parade their stupidity on this forum in a desperate attempt to avoid learning something and growing up.

But that wouldn’t be you, would it?

I wasn't suggesting Cyril Rioli needs ‘professional help’ proves anything.
Did you actually bother to read it, you're more a headline type guy aren't you?

"‘We all make mistakes, but this is not a colour thing. It’s about a pair of jeans and even though Shannyn might have felt humiliated, you don’t end someone’s football career over that".

I'm not the one claiming someone to be a troll, should be banned and is a UAP member for claiming a joke isn't racist.

 

[mcnulty]

Further complicating the issue...

Is it insensitive to play a ‘stirring joke’ on a ‘troubled’individual?

Does it absolve Kennett?

Does it diminish the Rioli‘s feelings?

Does it justify the ‘whiteys’?

Does it simply mean it was one step too far..for them...NOT Michael Long...so they ran and hid.

Or are all Indigenous people the same....thanks to Michael Long?

Time to sleep it off mate. You are really struggling here…

 

[SuperMal]

Time to sleep it off mate. You are really struggling here…

Actually I thought it was a pretty clear summary of the confliction Long has created.

So perhaps its you thats struggling....concentration lapses?

 

[mcnulty]

Actually I thought it was a pretty clear summary of the confliction Long has created.

So perhaps its you thats struggling....concentration lapses?

The “confliction” is Long’s? Jesus mate, this things been “conflicted“ from the start. For anyone willing to pay attention.

 

[SuperMal]

I wasn't suggesting Cyril Rioli needs ‘professional help’ proves anything.
Did you actually bother to read it, you're more a headline type guy aren't you?

"‘We all make mistakes, but this is not a colour thing. It’s about a pair of jeans and even though Shannyn might have felt humiliated, you don’t end someone’s football career over that".

I'm not the one claiming someone to be a troll, should be banned and is a UAP member for claiming a joke isn't racist.

I’ve said on this forum ...IF YOU’D BOTHERED TO FOLLOW IT....that I don’t believe it was ‘racism’.

I do NOT agree with Long’s view that it’s a ‘minor offence’.

This makes Long a human, with a different view - NOT a 1st Nation Elder. Try and understand the importance of that.

And where did you get the idea I inferred you were a troll, should be banned or a UAP member?

My comments about you introducing the Long article - which you ‘paraded’ as some sort of ‘victory’.....was more along the lines of being a sad, desperate effort to catch up with a ‘discussion’ between two people , that you clearly hadn’t followed.

Now...do you want to discuss Long’s superficial summary ....or do you want to ‘coat-tail’ my opinion of ElectricG?

Be quick...I haven't got all night....

 

[Hodge1]

I’ve said on this forum ...IF YOU’D BOTHERED TO FOLLOW IT....that I don’t believe it was ‘racism’.

I do NOT agree with Long’s view that it’s a ‘minor offence’.

This makes Long a human, with a different view - NOT a Furst Nation Elder. Try and understand the imprtance of that.

And where did you get the idea I inferred you were a troll, should bd banned or a UAP member?

My comments about you introducing the Long article - which you ‘paraded’ as some sort of ‘victory’.....was more along the lines of being a sad, desperate effort to catch up with a ‘discussion’ between two people , that you clearly hadn’t followed.

Now...do you want to discuss Long’s superficial summary ....or do you want to ‘coat-tail’ my opinion of ElevtricG.

Be quick...I haven't got all night....

Enjoy your night

 

[ElectricG]

I’ve said on this forum ...IF YOU’D BOTHERED TO FOLLOW IT....that I don’t believe it was ‘racism’.

I do NOT agree with Long’s view that it’s a ‘minor offence’.

This makes Long a human, with a different view - NOT a Furst Nation Elder. Try and understand the imprtance of that.

And where did you get the idea I inferred you were a troll, should bd banned or a UAP member?

My comments about you introducing the Long article - which you ‘paraded’ as some sort of ‘victory’.....was more along the lines of being a sad, desperate effort to catch up with a ‘discussion’ between two people , that you clearly hadn’t followed.

Now...do you want to discuss Long’s superficial summary ....or do you want to ‘coat-tail’ my opinion of ElevtricG.

Be quick...I haven't got all night....

 

[brmi]

I’m done. The weight of stupidity festering behind this issue is simply depressing.

I just hope BF sees these uninformed, under-developed, immature, blinkered, dull, gas-lighting, trolling responses to what is a clear issue of Hawthorn’s poor personnel management for what they are.....plainly stupid.

.....butvalso BF...think what they might be...a fixed agenda to derail discussion on these issues..

Make up your own minds.

Seems like you might have all night there Champ, you've also had all week after you were 'done' and appeared to mic drop and wave goodbye.

Now if you could actually stick your word and wave goodbye, we'd all be very appreciative. Bye bye campaigner.

 

[SuperMal]

Up to your usual standard. Lost you did I?

No surprises there then.

Get back to me when your synapses trigger.