Transgender

[ShanDog]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[Gralin]

Exactly and the majority of people dont like the changes you are proposing (not on here though).

I'm not the one proposing changes, they've already been proposed by others, and researched and discussed.

I'm also not the one focused on the hur dur what is a woman hur dur

On the inability of those representing the Workplace Gender Equality Authority to define 'Woman', it is interesting to note the word 'woman' is referenced 45 times on their public website, whilst the word 'women' is used 304 times.

One would think if a word is so commonly used on their website, and arguably the fundamental initial reason for the establishment of the government department, the organisation should be able to define it...

so did you go to the website and make those counts yourself or did you get the numbers from somewhere else but don't want to say where?

 

[Gethelred]

You regularly twist and misrepresent the posts of others to suggest they have said something that wasn't actually stated.

It is your standard MO.

You couldn't think of one, I take it?

 

[Fadge]

so did you go to the website and make those counts yourself or did you get the numbers from somewhere else but don't want to say where?

Um, public websites generally have simple search functions.

 

[Gethelred]

Is your complaint that I do it, or that I do it better than you can, Fadge?

 

[Marcel Proust]

Gay marriage passed though, even in areas I thought impossible!
You against my gay mates walking down the aisle like everyone else?

"America went from gay marriage to not knowing what a women is in seven years "

 

[CM86]

uuuughhh... I promised myself I'd be nice to people today.

Fadge, can you give a definition of woman that fits all women??? From before we reached this point 'currently' 'as a society'?'
What year would you say you could give a definition of woman, that fits all women? Pick a year and give your definition.

Of course you can't, Fadge . But because this forces you to question your position, so you run from it.

 

[carltonchelsea]

"America went from gay marriage to not knowing what a women is in seven years "

When did this occur Putin?

 

[CM86]

"America went from gay marriage to not knowing what a women is in seven years "

"Marcel Proust puts things in quotes, to avoid accountability".

 

[Marcel Proust]

"Marcel Proust puts things in quotes, to avoid accountability".

I think it was from a "meme"

 

[deanc]

• flog Sky News presenter says flog Sky News presenter things
• Senator asks multiple high ranking bureaucrats 'what is a woman?', none are able to answer

“It’s a very contested space at the moment senator.” - Professor Murphy, secretary of the Department of Health

We have a Federal Minister for Women. You'd think they might know what a woman is.

Simply further evidence that the 'common sense' train blew past the station and derailed years ago..!

Woman - an adult female human being who has the ability to reproduce. FFS, how or why is this definition 'contested'..?

 

[Kwality]

Hardly the domination at the Olympics you so love though is it? You can't have it both ways.

One size does not fit all ?
Did you observe the number of trans athletes looking to compete male sports? Nah, one size does not fit all.

 

[Chief]

an adult female human being who has the ability to reproduce.

So women who have had a hysterectomy are excluded?

Are we in a Schrodinger's Cat situation with women who have yet to attempt to have a child?

 

[CM86]

Simply further evidence that the 'common sense' train blew past the station and derailed years ago..!

Woman - an adult female human being who has the ability to reproduce. FFS, how or why is this definition 'contested'..?

So a man is anyone who can't reproduce?

I don't think you've thought about your definition. Do you lack common sense?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's pretty simple.

Women = Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

Man = Male = of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

Then there are a statistically insignificant number of intersex people with varying conditions which are, to borrow a phrase from english, the exception that proves the rule.

We don't need to debase the standard of man/male and woman/female just to try and make intersex people fit, they are their own category.

 

[CM86]

It's pretty simple.

Women = Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

Man = Male = of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

Then there are a statistically insignificant number of intersex people with varying conditions which are, to borrow a phrase from english, the exception that proves the rule.

Gender = sex = gender

Dress = woman = dress
Man wearing a dress = woman?

We don't need to debase the standard of man/male and woman/female just to try and make intersex people fit, they are their own category.

This is just really weird...

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Gender = sex = gender

Dress = woman = dress
Man wearing a dress = woman?





This is just really weird...

The definition included after sex is the definition of the female/male sex (as applicable) it is not the definition of gender, as you seem to indicate in the above example which, due to your apparent confusion, is non sensical. Are you okay? Do you understand what i'm saying? It appears that you may not know what you're talking about. Maybe you need to hop off big footy and educate yourself.

 

[CM86]

The definition included after sex is the definition of the female/male sex (as applicable) it is not the definition of gender, as you seem to indicate in the above example which, due to your apparent confusion, is non sensical.

This is a jumbled mess.

Are you okay?

I'm well thanks, and you?

Do you understand what i'm saying?

Not really. If you can't explain it clearly, maybe you don't understand it either?

It appears that you may not know what you're talking about.

I know what I'm talking about. It looks like neither of us know what you're talking about.

Maybe you need to hop off big footy and educate yourself.

I can multi-task.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

This is a jumbled mess.


I'm well thanks, and you?


Not really. If you can't explain it clearly, maybe you don't understand it either?


I know what I'm talking about. It looks like neither of us know what you're talking about.


I can multi-task.

I am saying that woman is synonymous with female and that the definition of female is "x". Is that clear to you... or do you need Vox to explain it to you for it to make sense?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Simply further evidence that the 'common sense' train blew past the station and derailed years ago..!

Woman - an adult female human being who has the ability to reproduce. FFS, how or why is this definition 'contested'..?

So Jenny Morrison isn’t a woman?
Cool mate

 

[CM86]

I am saying that woman is synonymous with female and that the definition of female is "x". Is that clear to you... or do you need Vox to explain it to you for it to make sense?

Yeah. That's what I replied to.

Showing why you're confused, and using a really basic way to explain it, so even you could follow along.

You then word salad'd, and now repeated your same point.


Let me try make it even easier.

Your position.
Gender = sex = gender = sex = gender etc etc.

Biological female = woman = biological female.

A common gender trait of woman, is that they wear dresses.

Dress = woman = biological female.

Man in dress = woman = biological female???

Or, are gender and sex able to be considered different things?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Yeah. That's what I replied to.

Showing why you're confused, and using a really basic way to explain it, so even you could follow along.

You then word salad'd, and now repeated your same point.


Let me try make it even easier.

Your position.
Gender = sex = gender = sex = gender etc etc.

Biological female = woman = biological female.

A common gender trait of woman, is that they wear dresses.

Dress = woman = biological female.

Man in dress = woman = biological female???

Or, are gender and sex able to be considered different things?

Yes, but you see I got confused because your analogy was so stupid that I assumed you misunderstood the point rather than jump to a conclusion that you were an idiot. I apologise for overestimating you.

A "common gender trait" is not the same as something that is synonymous. Female and Woman are synonymous, they are one in the same. Wearing dresses and being female is not. Plenty of women don't wear dresses. Wearing a dress does not make you a woman and vice versa. However being a female does make you a woman. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[CM86]

Yes, but you see I got confused

Of course you did. That's ok, good on you for being a little honest.

Yes, but you see I got confused because your analogy was so stupid that I assumed you misunderstood the point rather than jump to a conclusion that you were an idiot. I apologise for overestimating you.

A "common gender trait" is not the same as something that is synonymous. Female and Woman are synonymous, they are one in the same. Wearing dresses and being female is not. Plenty of women don't wear dresses. Wearing a dress does not make you a woman and vice versa. However being a female does make you a woman. Pretty simple stuff.

There's a group of 200 people. You're in charge of sending people to the male or female bathroom. How do you distinguish who to send to which bathroom.

 

[Gethelred]

It's pretty simple.

Women = Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

Do women cease to be women after menopause?

Man = Male = of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

If a man gets a vasectomy, has low sperm count or is otherwise unable to produce sperm, do they cease to be men?

Then there are a statistically insignificant number of intersex people with varying conditions which are, to borrow a phrase from english, the exception that proves the rule.

We don't need to debase the standard of man/male and woman/female just to try and make intersex people fit, they are their own category.

Why is it a debasement to make a distinction between gender and biology, FBI?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Do women cease to be women after menopause?

If a man gets a vasectomy, has low sperm count or is otherwise unable to produce sperm, do they cease to be men?

Why is it a debasement to make a distinction between gender and biology, FBI?

No, it's not a temporal issue. If they were even women (i.e female, i.e born female) then they remain women. Such arguments are quite clearly red herrings designed to back door the concept that you can wake up one day and identify as something else and be considered as such (empirically speaking of course), and i just don't agree with that.

Because I believe gender serves absolutely no purpose beyond it's legal and biological distinction, and that gender and sex are synonymous for this purpose. To then try and murky the waters of the definition of woman/man for that legal/biological purpose by straying away from the clearly and easily defined sexes is foolery.

People can be whoever they want. They can dress how they want, they can * who they want. They can ask their friends and blue checked individuals on twitter to call them whatever they want. I want those people to be happy. But i don't think that we should then cater fundamental legal and biological issues to psychological constructs. These same people are the ones that say 'gender is a social construct' and then do everything to fit that 'construct' and make others abide by their version of that 'construct' it doesn't make any sense.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Of course you did. That's ok, good on you for being a little honest.


There's a group of 200 people. You're in charge of sending people to the male or female bathroom. How do you distinguish who to send to which bathroom.

Is that even a question. The males go to the male bathroom and the females the female. It's in the name....