Our Current Back 6

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ferball said:
Realistically tho ... what KPDs?

One in the draft who didn't want to leave WA for family reasons and basically a bunch of spuds.
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Carlton got Lewis Young for a bag of chips. Tom McDonald was going for peanuts the year before. Skinner would've been good depth for our ressies as well.

It's a sore topic as well, but we didn't play the Tarrant situation well and I'll leave it at that.
 
Psicosis said:
Personally we’d probably have been better off using our 2022 second on any kind of defender (draft or trade) then another ruckman…
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Its easy to say that now but we have the rucks covered whereas they wouldn't have been otherwise. We could have ended up with Goldy, Edwards and two round two picks in this draft. We'd be screwed right now in that case.

And have you seen Skinner? He's slower and less effective than Josh Walker. That other bloke - Dean? He is injured isn't he? No real options for defenders. And its KPDs we need but there's no point getting s**t trucks.

In hindsight and at this point in time the CCJ trade looks poor but it wouldn't be the first time a poor trade has turned out good and at the time it made sense.
 

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Not sure why Tarrant’s name keeps getting brought up. He’s done. He’s 33. What difference would he make?

Whether he plays HB or defensive wing, Perez looks the goods. Bergman and Goater look to have ability. McDonald can defend and distribute. Scott is going OK down there. He could move to a wing.

We’re throwing magnets at the board and seeing what sticks. It’s the luxury you have at the start of a rebuild and results don’t matter.
 
ferball said:
Its easy to say that now but we have the rucks covered whereas they wouldn't have been otherwise. We could have ended up with Goldy, Edwards and two round two picks in this draft. We'd be screwed right now in that case.

And have you seen Skinner? He's slower and less effective than Josh Walker. That other bloke - Dean? He is injured isn't he? No real options for defenders. And its KPDs we need but there's no point getting s**t trucks.

In hindsight and at this point in time the CCJ trade looks poor but it wouldn't be the first time a poor trade has turned out good and at the time it made sense.
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The “hindsight” card is a cop out to avoid criticism Ferbs. If we can’t review list management decisions on this thread, wtf can we do?

Our back 6 last year was one of the oldest in the competition. I was fine with it for 12 months, as I get that they cannot do everything at once. However, every good premiership side has been built with a group of defenders that come through together for an extended period of time. Melbourne, Richmond, Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, Sydney - I can keep going if required. It is absolutely critical to win a premiership, non negotiable.

We have a bandaged up back 6, full of guys either playing out of position or getting ready to retire. The Luff/Rawlings regime have drafted 3 defenders (Perez, Goater & Bergman) in three drafts. They’ve brought in one FA in Corr, who is realistically not going to be around for our genuine contention period.

They have neglected the back 6. Personally I don’t see how even the most rosey bias supporter can argue against that…
 
Passmore said:
Not sure why Tarrant’s name keeps getting brought up. He’s done. He’s 33. What difference would he make?
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Jack Ziebell probably not on Mitch Lewis. A genuine KPD (probably Walker) in our ressies. Not to mention our defence looks a shambles without his guidance.

We're a KPD short this year, and he's a good one we let go for nothing. Not a long term solution, of course, but 2022 development is important to me.
 
ferball said:
Its easy to say that now but we have the rucks covered whereas they wouldn't have been otherwise. We could have ended up with Goldy, Edwards and two round two picks in this draft. We'd be screwed right now in that case.

And have you seen Skinner? He's slower and less effective than Josh Walker. That other bloke - Dean? He is injured isn't he? No real options for defenders. And its KPDs we need but there's no point getting s**t trucks.

In hindsight and at this point in time the CCJ trade looks poor but it wouldn't be the first time a poor trade has turned out good and at the time it made sense.
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Skinner makes Walker look like Ross Glendinning.
 
Themanbun said:
Jack Ziebell probably not on Mitch Lewis. A genuine KPD (probably Walker) in our ressies. Not to mention our defence looks a shambles without his guidance.

We're a KPD short this year, and he's a good one we let go for nothing. Not a long term solution, of course, but 2022 development is important to me.
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He was a good one. Now he’s barely functioning. He could have stayed, decided to go. I’ve moved on.
 
We’ve drafted Perez, Bergman and Goater in the passed 3 drafts. Scott looks ok down there.

McDonald and Corr should be able to provide solid leadership over the next 4-5 years.

We need 2 KPD IMO. One being a Walker upgrade and a development. The issue might very well be we haven’t rated the KPD in the draft or at state level. Why bring a player in you think is no good? To appease internet list managers?
 
hellas_johnny said:
I dont understand why he has insisted on moving both turner and mcdonald around when they clearly play their best footy down back. Mcdonald won a bnf down back and started the season well there vs hawthorn and was nearly bog, as for turner he finally found a new lease on his career playing their last year and shut down some very good small forwards. Why change it especially to accomodate footballers that shouldnt even be there in scott and atu. We brought in goater bergman and archer in the draft yet are playing makeshift defenders. it doesnt make sense. Atu was brought in as an exciting small forward prospect that we needed yet they then decide to play him back. ridiculous decision making
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We played turner, the previous week, on Judas to quell him and it worked. They we tried the same plan for Baby Faced Daniel and it didn‘t work.
 
Passmore said:
We’ve drafted Perez, Bergman and Goater in the passed 3 drafts. Scott looks ok down there.

McDonald and Corr should be able to provide solid leadership over the next 4-5 years.

We need 2 KPD IMO. One being a Walker upgrade and a development. The issue might very well be we haven’t rated the KPD in the draft or at state level. Why bring a player in you think is no good? To appease internet list managers?
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I don’t think it’s just KPDs P-Man.

We need elite users, lock down & interceptors. All-Australian defenders. All premiership sides have them - Small, Medium & tall.

Now I’m as bullish on Perez, Bergman & Goat as anyone & it’s very early, but with our drafting history, I don’t think we can say with any level of confidence that they’ll be AA defenders. Goater probably the one with the attributes.

The actual list managers have a f*k load of work to do to get our back 6 into a position that it is contender. People think we will rise up the ladder rapidly in the next 24 months. It’s just not possible with the defenders currently on our list.
 

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Psicosis said:
Not trying to turn Perez into a wing and actually playing him as a defender might also help
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so true. Another brought to the club with the excitement of being a line breaking half back. now playing him on the wing. Why. if we actually played players in their proper positions the defence wouldnt look so bad.

Turner, Mckay, Corr
Mcdonald, Walker, Hall/ Perez

Not rocket science. Mcdonald and hall or perez provide run from the flanks whilst you have turner locking down smalls and then the main 3 talls with corr playing interceptor, Really don't understand why we're trying to shoehorn players like atu young and scott into the backline. This defence would also allow scott to play a role on the wing.
 
Psicosis said:
I don’t think it’s just KPDs P-Man.

We need elite users, lock down & interceptors. All-Australian defenders. All premiership sides have them - Small, Medium & tall.

Now I’m as bullish on Perez, Bergman & Goat as anyone & it’s very early, but with our drafting history, I don’t think we can say with any level of confidence that they’ll be AA defenders. Goater probably the one with the attributes.

The actual list managers have a f*k load of work to do to get our back 6 into a position that it is contender. People think we will rise up the ladder rapidly in the next 24 months. It’s just not possible with the defenders currently on our list.
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You gotta start somewhere.

I’m not buying this quick rise business. We’re a mess. I expected a spoon this year. It’s a 5 year job. Even then, there’s no guarantees.
 
Psicosis said:
Personally we’d probably have been better off using our 2022 second on any kind of defender (draft or trade) then another ruckman…
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What, the second we now don't have because we traded it to Richmond for a guy we don't play.

Ironically also packaging up our best defender of the last 15 years to go with it.
 
FootySmartSimpson said:
No way in hell that back 6 is making a premiership. But until we actually get the right cattle, at least it might be able to compete.

Turner is actually a very good shut down defender. McDonald can be elite. McKay could be AA with the right support. Thomas could make Hall’s role his own and provide much more coverage in the air. We need to play Bailey all year to either know he can play or cross him out. I expect as soon as Bergman and Goater are fit enough, they will be injected in the side and Scott will be a small utility off the bench.

We desperately need a intercepting CHB to release Corr to the third tall. This will have flow on as McDonald can then shift to playing smaller and begin attacking and breaking lines.

The backline and forward line are at the mercy of some questionable list management calls over the last 36 months. This is a pragmatic response to that.
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Turner a very good shut down defender? McDonald elite?

FFS mate, stop doing this to yourself.
 
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Hindsight & all that…but I can tell you exactly where we royally ****ed our current list, particularly key defenders…..All the wasted draft picks & misses from 2014 to 2018….so many draft watchers (including myself) were left wondering WTF during that period, especially so when guys like Neilson, Watson, Williams & Walker were reached for. The Nielson, Watson and Williams picks in particular made no sense then and make even less sense now considering where they were all rated prior to the draft.

2014
Durdin Key Position - Bust
Neilson Key Defender - Bust
EVW Key Defender - Bust

2015
McKay Key Position - Win
Clarke Mid - Bust
Hibberd Mid - Bust (Marcus Adams 2 picks later)
Wagner - Bust

2016
Simpkin Mid - Win
Watson Key Defender - Bust
Williams Mid - Bust
(Sean Darcy, Josh Battle, Tom Stewart, Brennan Cox, Luke Ryan) all taken after those picks
Larkey - Win

2017
LDU Mid - Win
Walker Mid - Huge Bust.
(Tim Kelly, Noah Balta, Liam Ryan, Sam Taylor, Tom McCartin taken with next ten picks)
Hayden - Most likely bust

2018 - Missed a huge chance to improve our draft hand with the Polec trade. Needed to do something so much better with that first rounder we traded for Polec. Huge opportunity missed.

Thomas Mid - Win
Taylor - Win
Scott - Win

Even with just one of those wasted picks going our way (say Balta over Walker or Cox over Williams) and all of a sudden our future spine looks so much more impressive.

This once again emphasises why we need MORE picks inside 40 to maximise our chances at actually hitting our draft picks. As I said in another thread we will continue to tread water unless we find a way to get 6-8 draft picks inside the top 30 across consecutive years.
 
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roos_fanatic08 said:
Hindsight & all that…but I can tell you exactly where we royally f’ed our current list, particularly key defenders…..All the wasted draft picks & misses from 2014 to 2018….so many draft watchers (including myself) were left wondering WTF during that period, especially so when guys like Neilson, Watson, Williams & Walker were reached for. The Nielson, Watson and Williams picks in particular made no sense then and make egg Ben less sense now considering where they were all rated prior to the draft.

2014
Durdin Key Position - Bust
Neilson Key Defender - Bust
EVW Key Defender - Bust

2015
McKay Key Position - Win
Clarke Mid - Bust
Hibberd Mid - Bust (Marcus Adams 2 picks later)
Wagner - Bust

2016
Simpkin Mid - Win
Watson Key Defender - Bust
Williams Mid - Bust
(Sean Darcy, Josh Battle, Tom Stewart, Brennan Cox, Luke Ryan) all taken after those picks
Larkey - Win

2017
LDU Mid - Win
Walker Mid - Huge Bust.
(Tim Kelly, Noah Balta, Liam Ryan, Sam Taylor, Tom McCartin taken with next ten picks)
Hayden - Most likely bust

2018 - Missed a huge chance to improve our draft hand with the Polec trade. Needed to do something so much better with that first rounder we traded for Polec. Huge opportunity missed.

Thomas Mid - Win
Taylor - Win
Scott - Win

Even with just one of those wasted picks going our way (say Balta over Walker or Cox over Williams) and all of a sudden our future spine looks so much more impressive.

This once again emphasises why we need MORE picks inside 40 to maximise our chances at actually hitting our draft picks. As I said in another thread we will continue to tread water unless we find a way to get 6-8 draft picks inside the top 30 across consecutive years.
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Great post.

As a draft watcher, do we have the right recruiting people in place now compared to this trail of massive incompetence?

It's fine getting the picks , but as you have stated , we have had good picks and screwed up plenty of them.

This doesn't even take into account us trading Brown, Tarrant and our likely pick 19/ 20 for next to nothing
 
Passmore said:
Not sure why Tarrant’s name keeps getting brought up. He’s done. He’s 33. What difference would he make?

Whether he plays HB or defensive wing, Perez looks the goods. Bergman and Goater look to have ability. McDonald can defend and distribute. Scott is going OK down there. He could move to a wing.

We’re throwing magnets at the board and seeing what sticks. It’s the luxury you have at the start of a rebuild and results don’t matter.
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His leadership and influence on the backline is irreplaceable. While he was down form last year He definitely made a difference being back there, especially for the young brigade (Mckay, Atu, Bonar). He would have had progressed their development just by that fact, no doubt that others looked up to Taz and how good he has been for us. He would have a huge amount of knowledge about the game, on and off the field.

Maybe he has 1-2 years left (realistically) but that’s worth keeping on, not because he was a super star (he was in 2020 under Shaw) but because he would have had some leadership for our young players.

We look like a rabble down back this year. Thank * for Mckay.
 
If nelson and durdan were not such busts the stocks would look a lot better, both were relatively high picks. Unfortinately you cant have your cake and etat it to, our midfieold and fwd line are light as wrll, the only real recruiting dilemma of recent times was taking another mid ahead of logan who wad touted as a fwd antway. So unfortinately the defenders get pushed to the back of the line,

Some of the older rginking prolly thought we would have taz round a lityle longer but when that ship sailed it left a gaping hole, priority now should be focussed on addressing this. We wont be competative for at leat another 18 months and trading our future 2nd rounder wont help.
 
As a collective group our back 6 is shite.
Our coaching, system and work rate is shite.
Our mids and wingers ability to push back is shite.
Our forwards ability to pressure the ball coming out is shite.

We don’t have a problem in one part of the ground, we have a problem everywhere.
 
DuckYeah said:
is it safe to assume they would of looked and analysed the melbourne model where by they recruited two made defenders May/Lever? Thats what needs to happen. The age profile will be out. Need to recruit from other clubs.
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You'd be lucky as to be able to trade in 1 KPD who makes an AA, you'd have a more likely chance at winning the lottery if you try to do it again in the same era.
 
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