Rumour The St Kilda debt situation - no more tick

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Billy the Lid said:
My mum's family are rabid St.Kilda fans. Fortunately my father's family had more influence so I tiger I am but have always had a soft spot for the Saints.

Hawthorn is an interesting comparison. Obviously kids jumped on board on the back of some unprecedented success. They won flags in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s 00’and 10s. Between the 83 and 91 they played in 8 grand finals in 9 seasons. And yet by 1996 they went within a whisker of merging with Melbourne. Believe me their supporters are used to winning and if they don’t get back to the pointy end within a few years they will drop off in droves and in 10 -15 years it might be Hawthorn being propped up by the AFL. No club is immune. Richmond and Collingwood, two superpowers, have had to rattle the tin in recent years so I caution against any club getting too smug about the St. Kilda situation.

IMO the more recent St. Kilda situation was created by a perfect storm of ineptitude and circumstances. A forced move and $hit stadium deal at Docklands, the short-sighted (read idiotic) move to Seaford, and after a period contending the re-build aligned with the introduction of two expansion clubs and compromised drafts. This was exacerbated by some appalling recruiting which has led to a decade of mediocrity on and off the field.

They won in a final in 2020 and just missed in 2021 with arguably the toughest draw and worst run of injuries to top players. While obviously they need to stand on their own two feet, they seem to be fighting their way out of it and IMO are better placed then a few other clubs.
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Awesome explaination!

Would we add that they were practically kicked out of Moorabbin over re-development and gaming disagreements? I wasn't across all that crap at the time, but it seems like the move to Seaford was pretty much forced on them as the Kingston council were being pricks? Millions of dollars down the drain. I don't know what the stances were on pokies, but St Kilda had the least revenue from these of all Victorian clubs (just 1%) apart from the Roos who don't have any. So what was the problem here?

And yeah we were royally screwed and forced into a dud deal at Docklands, again losing mega bucks every damn match for years. All at the hands of the AFL.

The drafts, oh the drafts!! The successes of 2009/10 left us without pretty picks, but this also coincided with the Suns and Giants entering the league, happy bloody days for us! These drafts were literally a waste of time for us, but even after this we still butchered the drafts up until about 2014. That's six years in a row of rubbish recruiting. As you said, it just exacerbated the deep trough we were heading towards.

But now we've turned it around against a massive tide that was going against us. We're on the right track now, just need to stay on the path and hope that no one, including ourselves, screws us over again. It's terrible having fans going at each other over survival or relocations etc. FFS we need everyone sticking around and supporting each other! There will always be clubs on the bottom, Hawks, Demons, Kangas, Bulldogs, Saints, we've all been there. If anyone dies it just means that you're closer to being next.

In the mid 2000s the Saints were 2nd on the Vic membership ladder, only behind Collingwood. 2nd highest!! No doubt since then that we've also let ourselves down with our management and lack of community engagement for far too long, as well as some incredibly dour football. For some reason I was checking out Collingwood's memberships and what they offer. It's quite obvious that club sponsorship has a decent influence on membership tallies. The discount I can get on an Emirates flight by purchasing a Collingwood membership pays for itself. It makes ME want to buy a bloody toothless membership from them! I'm sure they have members who don't even follow footy, let alone Collingwood, just for the discounts and benefits!
 

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VinnieB said:
Seriously I think it's a waste of time conversing with you.
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Hate to say I told you so.....but I told you so:

"Over half of supporters follow their parent's team. There is little evidence that the relative size of supporter bases has moved much between clubs over the last 50 years.

A few clubs may have lost a little ground after decades of poor performance and arguably only one club has gained due to a level of sustained on-field success 30 years ago that cannot be repeated."

www.abc.net.au

Are AFL clubs getting a fair deal when it comes to off-field finances?

As well as competing for points on the field, AFL teams face some tough battles off it. Some clubs earn more money than others, so how does your team fare when it comes to off-field financials?
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
Munga said:
Awesome explaination!

Would we add that they were practically kicked out of Moorabbin over re-development and gaming disagreements? I wasn't across all that crap at the time, but it seems like the move to Seaford was pretty much forced on them as the Kingston council were being pricks? Millions of dollars down the drain. I don't know what the stances were on pokies, but St Kilda had the least revenue from these of all Victorian clubs (just 1%) apart from the Roos who don't have any. So what was the problem here?

And yeah we were royally screwed and forced into a dud deal at Docklands, again losing mega bucks every damn match for years. All at the hands of the AFL.

The drafts, oh the drafts!! The successes of 2009/10 left us without pretty picks, but this also coincided with the Suns and Giants entering the league, happy bloody days for us! These drafts were literally a waste of time for us, but even after this we still butchered the drafts up until about 2014. That's six years in a row of rubbish recruiting. As you said, it just exacerbated the deep trough we were heading towards.

But now we've turned it around against a massive tide that was going against us. We're on the right track now, just need to stay on the path and hope that no one, including ourselves, screws us over again. It's terrible having fans going at each other over survival or relocations etc. FFS we need everyone sticking around and supporting each other! There will always be clubs on the bottom, Hawks, Demons, Kangas, Bulldogs, Saints, we've all been there. If anyone dies it just means that you're closer to being next.

In the mid 2000s the Saints were 2nd on the Vic membership ladder, only behind Collingwood. 2nd highest!! No doubt since then that we've also let ourselves down with our management and lack of community engagement for far too long, as well as some incredibly dour football. For some reason I was checking out Collingwood's memberships and what they offer. It's quite obvious that club sponsorship has a decent influence on membership tallies. The discount I can get on an Emirates flight by purchasing a Collingwood membership pays for itself. It makes ME want to buy a bloody toothless membership from them! I'm sure they have members who don't even follow footy, let alone Collingwood, just for the discounts and benefits!
Click to expand...

St Kilda was never in the top 2 for membership.

The only clubs that been top 2 for membership are Adelaide (1997-2008), Collingwood (2002-2017), Hawthorn (2009-18), Port Adelaide (1997-99), West Coast (2000-01, 2019-21) and Richmond (2017-21).

If you apply it to Victorian clubs only, Collingwood (1998-2017, 2019-20), Hawthorn (1999, 2009-18), Essendon (1997-2002, 2004, 2006-07), Carlton (2003, 2005, 2008, 2021) and Richmond (2018-21)

Peak St Kilda was 2005/06 where they were 8th / 9th in the AFL and 5th in Victoria

More info here - http://www.footyindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/1984-2021-AFL-club-members-Julyt10.png
 

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StCicatriz said:
They sure as s**t are debt. You owe that money one way or another.

Now do the members equity and assets for both clubs
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You sure North are in debt? As I have been brainwashed or been told, North have turned a profit in 11 of the last 12 years or 12 oit of the last 13 years.

And thats despite playing in the same ground as your mob the docklands in which teams play home games there, get horrible deals There.

Even in a season stuffed with covid like 2020, north managed to turn a profit when literally no one rocked up LoL
 
Freomaniac said:
You sure North are in debt? As I have been brainwashed or been told, North have turned a profit in 11 of the last 12 years or 12 oit of the last 13 years.

And thats despite playing in the same ground as your mob the docklands in which teams play home games there, get horrible deals There.

Even in a season stuffed with covid like 2020, north managed to turn a profit when literally no one rocked up LoL
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Propped up by the tassie taxpayer. Not for much longer.
 
Red Bull said:
Good for you brother.
The Saints paying their way would certainly be a welcome first …
Click to expand...
So back to the original conversation? Great. You'll be delighted to know that St Kilda will pay off their debt and return to profitability, although how it affects you I'm ****ed if I know.


But seeing as you love history so much... Are you old enough to remember Carlton initiating merger talks with St Kilda? We knocked you back. What a whore of a club Carlton is.

"The Blues, one of the league's biggest players during the 1990s under Elliott, were keen to do a deal after an initial attempt to merge with North failed during the early part of that decade.

And with champion players like Tony Lockett, Nicky Winmar, Stewart Loewe and Robert Harvey lining up for the Saints at the time, Elliott said he was trying to create a football powerhouse.

"North wanted to merge with us and Bob Ansett stymied that," said Elliott, referring to the former Kangaroos president.

"We then went on and talked with St Kilda 'cause we could see that by merging two clubs, you're really going to put yourself in a position where you win a few premierships.

"Anyway the St Kilda one fell away," he added.

"We spent most of the season talking with the St Kilda president (Andrew Plympton), I did, very quietly and It wasn't going to be a takeover, it was going to be a merger."

I think "biggest players" means "cheats" in the context of the '90s.
 
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