Best explained by players used.
Eagles 42, Freo 30.
Played all 7 games
Eagles 2, Freo 11.
Conclusion: it happens.
Will the Tim Kelly trade go down as one of the worst ever ?
- Thread starter Cadillac
- Start date
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Best explained by players used.
Eagles 42, Freo 30.
Played all 7 games
Eagles 2, Freo 11.
Conclusion: it happens.
lumpinee
MK ULTRA
your talkin WCE here,theyre not destitute,theyve 100,000 members, 2 flags and 4 GF appearences in 18 seasons,they will not be recieving
favours from the AFL,to prise either Jackson or English commencing theyre prime years will cost a bundle they cant afford and they'll never
recover from,once bitten twice shy
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
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Everyone has their turn. At various stages in the last two years nobody wanted to be Adelaide or Collingwood or Hawthorn.
- Mar 20, 2017
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Yeah but it's not true is it. From memory carlton we're fined and lost draft picks for paying multiple players under the table. Significantly. If O'reilly wasn't traded in the transgressions would still have taken place and the penalties would still have applied.
Happy for someone to correct me but the names mentioned were Silvagni. Bradley. Fraser Brown and O'Reilly. Brown refused point blank to cooperate. O'reilly would clearly be paid the least of those players.
The reality is that Carlton traded 12 & 46 for o'reilly which was a poor trade as he only played 12 games due to a back injury. The rest is ancillary club related penalties. Sorry to rain on your parade.
- May 3, 2007
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I'm sure you do. Just hope it doesn't go down to the levels of your friends in South Australia LoL.^^^ I have appreciated this lovely Perth banter
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
And James Aish as well.
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
How on earth do you know that Kram is a liberal voter? LoL.
Kram could of vote for Labor or Greens' or one nation or even Clive Palmers United Australia party in this election.
Go ask Kram about tough man Tony Abbott LoL.
Will the Tim Kelly trade go down as one of the worst ever ?
It won't go down as a good one, but it's far from the worst ever.
The oft mentioned Croad trade by Freo is worse, but not as bad as the Peter Bell saga. Getting a guy for free, having him on your list, giving him up for NOTHING, then paying the farm to get him back after he's had 5 brilliant seasons at North that could have been at freo is far worse.
Even the 2017 GC trade to WC that netted Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan and Jack Petrucelle for a 4 pick slide the next year is worse than the Kelly trade.
And the O'reilly trade for Carlton? Probably the highest impact that makes it a real candidate as worst ever.
So Kelly. Way overs, but in reality a lightweight in the 'worst ever' game.
It won't go down as a good one, but it's far from the worst ever.
The oft mentioned Croad trade by Freo is worse, but not as bad as the Peter Bell saga. Getting a guy for free, having him on your list, giving him up for NOTHING, then paying the farm to get him back after he's had 5 brilliant seasons at North that could have been at freo is far worse.
Even the 2017 GC trade to WC that netted Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan and Jack Petrucelle for a 4 pick slide the next year is worse than the Kelly trade.
And the O'reilly trade for Carlton? Probably the highest impact that makes it a real candidate as worst ever.
So Kelly. Way overs, but in reality a lightweight in the 'worst ever' game.
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
You just mentioned McCarthy.
Do you think the cam McCarthy trade was bad for Freo? Far from it.
Freo gave pick 3 to GWS. What did Freo get in return?
Cam McCarthy, pick 8 (Griffen Logue) , pick 35 (Sean Darcy) and pick 72 (Luke Ryan).
Far from a horrific trade.
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Or both the western Australian clubs could of got Tim Kelly in the 2015 or 2016 drafts.
The point was how come Tim Kelly was taken in the 2017 draft? In the 2017 WAFL season, He was averaging 28 disposals a game in the WAFL and kicked 20-25 goals that season.
In the 2016 WAFL season, he was only averaging 20 disposals. So he didn't stand out.
In the 2015 WAFL season, he again was averaging 20 disposals a game. Again, he didn't stand out.
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
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- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Are you endorsing a Fremantle mentality at your club?
- May 3, 2007
- 36,346
- 21,071
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
So your team will make finals in 2024? LoL
- Mar 25, 2003
- 35,681
- 28,334
When you add up the draft picks value (which can be debated, but are roughly on the ball) we paid roughly pick 1.5.
Kelly overall has been decent (inconsistentcy the main issue) but we aren't getting value on pick 1.5, but in terms of worst trade ever its not even a contender for top ten.
Kelly overall has been decent (inconsistentcy the main issue) but we aren't getting value on pick 1.5, but in terms of worst trade ever its not even a contender for top ten.
tbh I always thought Kelly was a bit overrated at Geelong, no surprise that he's been exposed when he has to do most of it himself now.
Grand Uncle Horace
Nice to see the famous NMFC#wishboner spirit livii
Agree with this. He is still a very good player but surrounded by an ordinary and/or unfit midfield.
He's actually been better when he's been the senior mid.
See the St Kilda game in Brisbane in 2020 for instance. Also games this season and last without Shuey & Yeo.
Nit worth what we paid to date but gar from the worst trader ever.
There's a few moving parts to the Neale deal.
Without it Freo couldn't have done the deal to get Rory Lobb.
GWS sent back 14 in that deal - Sam Sturt, as well as 43 and 47.
The later picks were involved in live trade at the draft including a pick swap with the WB in return for Pick 57 - Lachie Schultz
There are plenty of worse trades but the Kelly trade is only starting to look definitively bad now.
Eagles fans console themselves with the fact that in the past they have never been down the bottom for very long. This time is different though. The cupboard is pretty bare for talented youngsters. It's Oscar Allen and probably Campbell Chesser.
In West Coast's spoon year in 2010 they already had Hurn, Kennedy, Shepherd, NIC Nat and Shuey as talented youngsters on the list. No wonder they rebounded quickly. Draft capital had also been spent on Tom Swift, Tony Notte and Scott Selwood who never quite delivered.
If West coast are cellar dwellers for several years the Tim Kelly trade will make its way up the list of worst ever trades.
Side note: I'd also like to nominate the Judd trade as one of the worst ever. Crazy right. Judd played 145 games for Carlton but compared to what West Coast got it ain't even close.
At Carlton Judd won 4 x AA, 3 x B&F, 1 x Brownlow, 1 x MVP and dragged the club to 4 finals series in 6 years as captain.
I would do the trade again. I doubt Kennedy would have ended up as good if he stayed or made us any less sh#t the last 10 years.
Get where you are coming from in terms of longevity but still think it was win win.
That said, if we could go back I would have traded pick 1 to West Coast (Kreuzer) and kept Kennedy.
B
And the likely reason you didn't trade pick 1 was because you didn't want to look stupid like Freo
- Aug 13, 2013
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It only looks bad because of our bad run of injuries and covid.
At the time the plan to go for another flag was a good one.
We are never down for several years.
Probably. Plus its great PR for a struggling club to say we got the best player in the league and kept the number 1 pick. No doubt the club also rated Kreuzer a better prospect then Kennedy at that stage too.
It's an interesting one, because he's clearly not the same player that he was at Geelong. Even with Danger, Sel, Dunc and Guthrie around him, he was still our No. 1 extracting/goal kicking mid for the year (hence his Top 5 Brownlow finish).
Honestly, I think the same thing that's happened to so many good players who get offered long contracts - is happening to him. He had to push, scrap, beg, borrow and steal to FINALLY get his AFL chance with us - and was genuinely happy when playing at Geelong. Family circumstances, however, prevented him from staying, and he genuinely needed to get home in the end.
With that said, he doesn't have that same 'fight' that he had when he was with us, because he now has a 6 year 800K contract that he earns regardless of whether he does well or not from here. It's the 'Tom Boyd', 'Brodie Grundy', 'Dylan Shiel', 'Jeremy McGovern', 'Brad Hill', 'Jared Polec', 'Zac Williams' etc. etc. complex - a player gets a huge contract (not just monetary, but length wise), and doesn't have anything higher to aim for once Finals/Premierships are out of the equation; or even then if it is in the equation, they're just downhill skiers and cashed in on a good year or two.
Now that WC are clearly about to rebuild, he literally just has to show up every week, and put more of the focus on his family at home. I don't blame him honestly. He took his opportunity with both hands, made sure he got his trade home - and now he's set for life off two years of really good elite football.
It's a shame though, because it was genuinely scary just how good he was - and I genuinely do think had we had him in 2020, it would have been enough to offset Dusty going complete beast mode and turning the game on its head. You ask any Geelong supporter, would they rather we kept Kelly and got a flag? The answer is nearly always a unanimous 'yes.'
Best of luck though to him, and hopefully he finds that 'fire' again - as he's such a treat to watch when he plays to his full capability. Maybe a clean out of the old and a fresh batch of kids might reignite that fire next year, but for now, he'll probably just keep going through the motions 'til the end of the year - and have every right to considering the hand WC have been dealt/the complete basketcase they've become - which enables him to hide behind subpar performances.
Honestly, I think the same thing that's happened to so many good players who get offered long contracts - is happening to him. He had to push, scrap, beg, borrow and steal to FINALLY get his AFL chance with us - and was genuinely happy when playing at Geelong. Family circumstances, however, prevented him from staying, and he genuinely needed to get home in the end.
With that said, he doesn't have that same 'fight' that he had when he was with us, because he now has a 6 year 800K contract that he earns regardless of whether he does well or not from here. It's the 'Tom Boyd', 'Brodie Grundy', 'Dylan Shiel', 'Jeremy McGovern', 'Brad Hill', 'Jared Polec', 'Zac Williams' etc. etc. complex - a player gets a huge contract (not just monetary, but length wise), and doesn't have anything higher to aim for once Finals/Premierships are out of the equation; or even then if it is in the equation, they're just downhill skiers and cashed in on a good year or two.
Now that WC are clearly about to rebuild, he literally just has to show up every week, and put more of the focus on his family at home. I don't blame him honestly. He took his opportunity with both hands, made sure he got his trade home - and now he's set for life off two years of really good elite football.
It's a shame though, because it was genuinely scary just how good he was - and I genuinely do think had we had him in 2020, it would have been enough to offset Dusty going complete beast mode and turning the game on its head. You ask any Geelong supporter, would they rather we kept Kelly and got a flag? The answer is nearly always a unanimous 'yes.'
Best of luck though to him, and hopefully he finds that 'fire' again - as he's such a treat to watch when he plays to his full capability. Maybe a clean out of the old and a fresh batch of kids might reignite that fire next year, but for now, he'll probably just keep going through the motions 'til the end of the year - and have every right to considering the hand WC have been dealt/the complete basketcase they've become - which enables him to hide behind subpar performances.
Why so much focus on this trade??
Because he wanted to leave Geelong and come back to WA?
Because Geelong obviously did want to lose him and held out as much as they possibly could?
Because Kelly nominated Eagles as his preference not Freo?
May have paid a little overs but the guy was a Brownlow fav in his 2nd year so you know pretty elite.
What did Pies give up for Treloar then get in return when they couldn't wait to get rid of him, or even Essendon for Sheil who is battling to even make the team?
Because he wanted to leave Geelong and come back to WA?
Because Geelong obviously did want to lose him and held out as much as they possibly could?
Because Kelly nominated Eagles as his preference not Freo?
May have paid a little overs but the guy was a Brownlow fav in his 2nd year so you know pretty elite.
What did Pies give up for Treloar then get in return when they couldn't wait to get rid of him, or even Essendon for Sheil who is battling to even make the team?
