Autopsy Round 8 = Richmond 113-86 Collingwood

[gouki88]

Moore was genuinely pathetic yesterday.

900k for 6 years and it looked like he was checked out all day yesterday.

We’ve gone from being a superb defensive side with lack of offence to a great offence with leaky defence.

We’ve gone forward to go backwards.

If you ignore the fact that we're winning more and playing a more aesthetically pleasing brand of football, then sure

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I said round 1, I could seriously not believe how much space our defenders were giving forwards when the ball was coming in.

This needs to be seen live to really understand how rediclous it is.

Howe is the worst by a mile, gets no where near the player and tries to leap over the opponent at the last moment.

This works ok with Roughead in the side and works (just) with Madgen in the side as the deep shut down defender leaving Moore and Howe to do what they do best. I blame the selectors for this.

 

[Silky23]

If you ignore the fact that we're winning more and playing a more aesthetically pleasing brand of football, then sure

No I completely agree with you it’s much more impressive to watch.

But against better teams the new brand we play with is no chance of being a consistent and feasible approach.

Against teams with big key forwards we are in big trouble.

We can’t have Moore and Howe playing 15m off their man every week. In the last fortnight Lynch has 25 and kicks 6, Chol has 3 and Casboult who’s a hack had 8 scoring shots.

 

[KJpie]

Happy mothers day to my Mum and all the Mums out there, hope you are spoilt rotten

 

[No SPIN]

Have you watched Kelly in the VFL? He is no where near it as well as being injury prone. Exactly what we need at Collingwood.

Kelly is a monstrous disappointment because it’s an attitude and effort issue and not talent IMO.

 

[Apex36]

I can’t see how a forearm is any less culpable than an elbow given it was deliberate….

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I said round 1, I could seriously not believe how much space our defenders were giving forwards when the ball was coming in.

This needs to be seen live to really understand how rediclous it is.

Howe is the worst by a mile, gets no where near the player and tries to leap over the opponent at the last moment.

Overshadowed by Moore's prominence, Howe did not cop much criticism for yesterday, but he had a very ordinary, uninspired and uninspiring, afternoon's work.

 

[Silky23]

I just looked and statistically speaking we have the 5th worst defence in the league and we are giving up 90 points per game.

That should not be happening with the quality of defenders we have down there.

Is it lack of effort or is it system based? From the eye test it looks completely effort based. Not sure Fly would be coming in to the club where Bucks had us consistently finishing as a top 3 defence and completely capitulating the system we had in place.

Defence wins you flags, not offence.

 

[sr36]

I really don't like what the OP is implying, as if there's something wrong with a trim or a shave. There really isn't.

Beyond that, I'm on my second bottle of wine and don't have much to say about the issue.

Actually, Ginnivan attracts his own attention and should be able --to a considerable degree-- to handle the implications of that.

Shaved testes are soft, despite the short term effects of the action.

 

[jonbe54]

Happy mothers day to my Mum and all the Mums out there, hope you are spoilt rotten

Western society now has that well taken care of.

 

[gouki88]

No I completely agree with you it’s much more impressive to watch.

But against better teams the new brand we play with is no chance of being a consistent and feasible approach.

Against teams with big key forwards we are in big trouble.

We can’t have Moore and Howe playing 15m off their man every week. In the last fortnight Lynch has 25 and kicks 6, Chol has 3 and Casboult who’s a hack had 8 scoring shots.

I think that is a result of personnel as much as gameplan. We are down our ruckman, centre-half forward and our full-back (among others). That's going to hurt us against teams with good tall stocks.

 

[Pistol Night]

Full credit to Richmond, they were good and finished their work...

But that spud who elbowed Ginnivan can enjoy himself a 3 week holiday. Flog.

The flog would of left the field via a stretcher if he tried that shit in the 70s or 80s

 

[Silky23]

I think that is a result of personnel as much as gameplan. We are down our ruckman, centre-half forward and our full-back (among others). That's going to hurt us against teams with good tall stocks.

That’s very true. I wonder if we begin to start putting stock into guys who are available. We have way too many guys on our list who are risk reward players with their body that absolutely burns us year on year.

I’m starting to wish we just had honest footballers with less talent but play every game over guys who are super talented with injury risk. Every single year we get hurt

 

[Albert Parker]

Can't drop Brown or Bianco after one match. Need a block of 3 or 4 games to really know. They weren't great, but they need some time.

Main mistake was going too small in the forward line. Cox may get a recall.

Really? How many games do you need to see from these players to declare their capacity to contribute?
By contrast, we drop Reef after about 2-3 games of exposed form, where he showed quite a bit against Brisbane in particular.

In particular Bianco - what redeeming features do you see as a footballer?
Slow, not strong in the contest or tackling, not a great kick, not a great marking target, reactive?
Nice guy, but nowhere near a useful AFL footballer.

Not sure why we didn't play Reef vs Bianco. Reef has shown that he can hit the scoreboard. He is quick, can take a mark and snap a goal.
May not yet be fit enough and drifts in and out, but offers an ability to bop up and rove a ball or get on a lead and take a mark.
To bring in Bianco in the forward line for him is staggering to me.

I also agree with others that this week was not the one to leave Madgen out when Lynch and Riewoldt are two quality targets.
Moore and Howe did play too loose under the circumstances.

Needed to tidy up our shots on goal with our crumbing efforts.

Pro's were some of our running handball chains through the midfield from defence.
Also thought we kept pushing all day.

But we lacked size right across the ground. From Rucks, to tall marking forwards and backs and our smaller, younger players don't have the size in the contest and with tackling on a day when it is wet and slippery.

 

[Wearmouth]

I'm glad you said seems, because there isn't much evidence to support that statement from this season. His worst game prior to this week (haven't been able to watch the Tigers game) was against the Bombers. Thought he played fairly decently against St Kilda, Geelong & Brisbane - particularly Brisbane.

This will happen with Josh. He isn’t Nick. However he is one of our better users and teams will try and curtail his influence. Josh just hasn’t had this type of attention. Well let’s face it. Why would’ve you bothered for a player of his type. He has been a little vanilla up until last year and half. Maybe Nick has spurred him on to greater heights. And it has been welcomed. Now the challenge for him will be to learn to break the close check on him to get involved again. We need his clean disposals in transition.

Nick is a different beast. Likes the attention and the challenge. He’ll rise through all the crap. Has his Dad’s inner strength in him.


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[CPH12]

Disappointed to lose, but like the way we fought it out. Felt like a nearly day, where we missed or got a bad bounce/decision just as we were gathering momentum and they kicked an easy one at the other end. Crisp and noble were fantastic, and liked the way Henry presented at the footy

After the past couple of weeks, I have changed my opinion on what our trade priority should be, with a key defender a major need. Not an intercept defender but someone to take on the big forwards.Daniher, Cameron, casboult, Lynch have all got a hold of us and we do not have a roughhead replacement. I think there are cheap trade options floating around rather than targeting the draft though, which would be a 4 year development.

 

[gouki88]

This will happen with Josh. He isn’t Nick. However he is one of our better users and teams will try and curtail his influence. Josh just hasn’t had this type of attention. Well let’s face it. Why would’ve you bothered for a player of his type. He has been a little vanilla up until last year and half. Maybe Nick has spurred him on to greater heights. And it has been welcomed. Now the challenge for him will be to learn to break the close check on him to get involved again. We need his clean disposals in transition.

Nick is a different beast. Likes the attention and the challenge. He’ll rise through all the crap. Has his Dad’s inner strength in him.


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Nick has the ego necessary to be a superstar, or so it seems to me. Has not seemed phased one bit by the intense pressure associated with his name and junior football performance.

Josh had a completely different route, but has played a very good season bar the Tigers game. Josh was sadly not Robinson Crusoe there

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Disappointed to lose, but like the way we fought it out. Felt like a nearly day, where we missed or got a bad bounce/decision just as we were gathering momentum and they kicked an easy one at the other end. Crisp and noble were fantastic, and liked the way Henry presented at the footy

After the past couple of weeks, I have changed my opinion on what our trade priority should be, with a key defender a major need. Not an intercept defender but someone to take on the big forwards.Daniher, Cameron, casboult, Lynch have all got a hold of us and we do not have a roughhead replacement. I think there are cheap trade options floating around rather than targeting the draft though, which would be a 4 year development.

The type of key defender to which you are referring should also be the most highly respected given the quality of his (or her etc) opposition. In this sort of scenario, I would want to see Moore moved forward permanently to see if his talent can't be better served in a forward role.

 

[Silky23]

The type of key defender to which you are referring should also be the most highly respected given the quality of his (or her etc) opposition. In this sort of scenario, I would want to see Moore moved forward permanently to see if his talent can't be better served in a forward role.

Not this again. How many failed trials of Moore forward do we need before we realise it’s not the role for him.

Especially now that we have a functioning forward line.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This will happen with Josh. He isn’t Nick. However he is one of our better users and teams will try and curtail his influence. Josh just hasn’t had this type of attention. Well let’s face it. Why would’ve you bothered for a player of his type. He has been a little vanilla up until last year and half. Maybe Nick has spurred him on to greater heights. And it has been welcomed. Now the challenge for him will be to learn to break the close check on him to get involved again. We need his clean disposals in transition.

Nick is a different beast. Likes the attention and the challenge. He’ll rise through all the crap. Has his Dad’s inner strength in him.


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And if Josh can't break the close check, he will become another Sidebottom. He will star until a team wanting to win a game puts a stopper on him, squeezing his effectiveness out of him.

 

[Black_White]

If you don’t play a big American against the Tigers you get what you deserve……

 

[lenny20]

Defence wins you flags, not offence.

I think in today's game, both defence and offence win you flags. And we've been so very, very poor at offence for so very, very long that we just need to re-learn that part of the game from scratch. Even if it means shipping big scores in the short term - at least we can work out how to kick a winning score ourselves.

From there, we can work out how to balance the two to best effect.

Right now, we're like a crap golfer with a huge slice. We could get ourselves around the course in one piece, but something was always broken, and we'd never shoot an amazing score. Now we're finally trying to learn how to hit the ball straight. We have to over-exaggerate the feeling of hitting it left, just to break the bad habits we've developed over the last decade. We'll hit a few snap hooks along the way, lose a few balls, play some terrible rounds... but once we learn what hitting it too far left feels like, we can make small adjustments and eventually get it flying straight.

But if we're not brave enough to exaggerate our attacking style, we're never gonna be able to break our too-defensive mindset.

 

[Maggie5]

Cotchin pretty much just stole his play book and took over the mantle. Come in from the side or behind players who are in packs straight with a knee into the back or leg to halt his momentum. Gave sneak rabbit punches too.

gouki88

You can add tunelling when players going for a mark to the list.

 

[gouki88]

Not this again. How many failed trials of Moore forward do we need before we realise it’s not the role for him.

Especially now that we have a functioning forward line.

I view "failed trials" (young Moore was looking very strong up forward) under Buckley to be largely irrelevant. Completely different style of play

 

[KJpie]

Western society now has that well taken care of.

Not sure what you mean Jon, commercialised maybe?