Autopsy Round 8 = Richmond 113-86 Collingwood

[Maggie5]

I said round 1, I could seriously not believe how much space our defenders were giving forwards when the ball was coming in.

This needs to be seen live to really understand how rediclous it is.

Howe is the worst by a mile, gets no where near the player and tries to leap over the opponent at the last moment.

My biggest bug bear last year was to see players guarding real estate. Drives me crazy.

You can't give your opponent that much space even if you have amazing speed.

More so if we are not winning clearances and the ball comes down quickly.

I am not a fan or playing 'pretty' football and losing.

The only one missing is Roughhead, I thought Lippa was supposed to be the master coach for the defence.

 

[gouki88]

My biggest bug bear last year was to see players guarding real estate. Drives me crazy.

You can't give your opponent that much space even if you have amazing speed.

More so if we are not winning clearances and the ball comes down quickly.

I am not a fan or playing 'pretty' football and losing.

The only one missing is Roughhead, I thought Lippa was supposed to be the master coach for the defence.

The defensive game is lost further up the field very often with how we play. It's a learning experience.

 

[TradeDraft]

We played well in last qtr as Richmond Intensity Dropped Off a Fair Bit

 

[loki04]

No I completely agree with you it’s much more impressive to watch.

But against better teams the new brand we play with is no chance of being a consistent and feasible approach.

Against teams with big key forwards we are in big trouble.

We can’t have Moore and Howe playing 15m off their man every week. In the last fortnight Lynch has 25 and kicks 6, Chol has 3 and Casboult who’s a hack had 8 scoring shots.

Once the attacking style is second nature the defensive end will get tweaked to accommodate.

Our biggest and most important change needed was the ability to score.

 

[loki04]

The defensive game is lost further up the field very often with how we play. It's a learning experience.

Think our old defensive zone is getting picked apart too especially without a FB capable of minding a gun FF.

Moore now has to play more accountable and so too Howe. Madgen might not be the best but he certainly slows that trickle down effect on Moore and then Howe.

 

[stormskye]

That vision of Moore was just horrifying. He had absolutely 0 accountability for lynch. It’s as if it wasn’t even his man. He’s so accustomed to helping out others, he’s forgotten he’s replacing roughie atm and all his job is, is to negate the big KPF. A lot of it is mindset.

 

[TradeDraft]

Keep in mind that is slow motion.

Would not Expecting any less from Richmond

 

[jathanas]

My biggest bug bear last year was to see players guarding real estate. Drives me crazy.

You can't give your opponent that much space even if you have amazing speed.

More so if we are not winning clearances and the ball comes down quickly.

I am not a fan or playing 'pretty' football and losing.

The only one missing is Roughhead, I thought Lippa was supposed to be the master coach for the defence.

The defensive game is lost further up the field very often with how we play. It's a learning experience.

+1 to gouks.

Not sure we can look at our defence in isolation of what's taking place upfield but I too get frustrated because our defenders too often look like lame ducks.

Last year, (plus the year before ), we played a style of game that minimised how often our defenders got caught out. We'd buy them time to get into space with our sideways kicking.

Low risk, low reward footy.

We're more successful this year and things are on the up.

 

[sr36]

Dunstall making out like it’s a forearm when Ginni cops the point of the elbow flush to the back of the head.
Honestly should be treated with the same seriousness as a coward punch, an elbow does more damage than a fist. These kind of incidents really need to be penalised based on the action, not the outcome, if the AFL wants to be taken seriously. But we all know that he’ll probably end up copping less than Jordy did for his tackle on Dangerfield because the MRO is a ******* circus.

It's not really the MRO. Christian has to follow the rulebook. The maximum that Mansel can get is 2 weeks - intentional, high contact, low impact is one week and he could get that for the two different whacks.

The first one being in play, might be graded as careless - just a fine, which I think would normally occur for that if he didn't make the intentional so blatantly obvious by following up with the second one. The second one, without the first, would probably be viewed as too low impact to warrant a report. But being a second blow to the head in quick succession it's more dangerous. I originally thought he'd get off, but I think they might give him a week for that.

 

[Maggie5]

The defensive game is lost further up the field very often with how we play. It's a learning experience.

I agree to a point which is why given we were losing hit outs and clearances, coaching instructions didn't seem to alter.

Not convinced on how we play nor our line coaching.

Head my head in hands groaning several times during the game, if I could see it why couldn't the coaches?

 

[Apex36]

It's not really the MRO. Christian has to follow the rulebook. The maximum that Mansel can get is 2 weeks - intentional, high contact, low impact is one week and he could get that for the two different whacks.

The first one being in play, might be graded as careless - just a fine, which I think would normally occur for that if he didn't make the intentional so blatantly obvious by following up with the second one. The second one, without the first, would probably be viewed as too low impact to warrant a report. But being a second blow to the head in quick succession it's more dangerous. I originally thought he'd get off, but I think they might give him a week for that.

When I say the MRO I’m talking about the office and guidelines in general. Christian is pretty irrelevant tbh, a monkey could do his job. Follow the guidelines, regardless of context or circumstances of the incident.
Something like this should be sent straight to the tribunal imo. Non football act with malicious intent, deserves to be looked at and judged without the restraints of the rigid MRO guidelines.

 

[Apex36]

I agree to a point which is why given we were losing hit outs and clearances, coaching instructions didn't seem to alter.

Not convinced on how we play nor our line coaching.

Head my head in hands groaning several times during the game, if I could see it why couldn't the coaches?

I’m sure they could see it, but making changes on match day requires the players to make adjustments too, it’s not just the coaches.this year was always going to be a process of learning a new game style, having it become second nature, and then making adjustments over time.
We’re 8 rounds in to the season and sitting marginally outside the 8 after finishing second last in 2021, and you’re questioning our coaching panel? Really?

Nobody was expecting us to finish above bottom 3-4 at the start of the year, I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could be unhappy with our overall progress thus far…

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I view "failed trials" (young Moore was looking very strong up forward) under Buckley to be largely irrelevant. Completely different style of play

Besides IF we were to trade for an established KPD presence with stature in the game, trying to improve the KPF personnel from within the list would be the only option to add height and class up forward.

 

[stormskye]

I’m sure they could see it, but making changes on match day requires the players to make adjustments too, it’s not just the coaches.this year was always going to be a process of learning a new game style, having it become second nature, and then making adjustments over time.
We’re 8 rounds in to the season and sitting marginally outside the 8 after finishing second last in 2021, and you’re questioning our coaching panel? Really?

Nobody was expecting us to finish above bottom 3-4 at the start of the year, I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could be unhappy with our overall progress thus far…

We’ve played one bad game in 8, which IMO was yesterday. Not bad for a rebuilding team with a new game plan. And plenty of injuries to KPP.

 

[Maggie5]

I’m sure they could see it, but making changes on match day requires the players to make adjustments too, it’s not just the coaches.this year was always going to be a process of learning a new game style, having it become second nature, and then making adjustments over time.
We’re 8 rounds in to the season and sitting marginally outside the 8 after finishing second last in 2021, and you’re questioning our coaching panel? Really?

Nobody was expecting us to finish above bottom 3-4 at the start of the year, I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could be unhappy with our overall progress thus far…

I actually was expecting to finish in the eight, so I wasn't expecting bottom 4 or less.

Season started in December plus training, team, line and individual meetings. Sometimes a good coach has alternative plans when things are either not going the way they anticipated especially during a game. I haven't seen this yet.

I also don't see where we are as something of note given other teams are not playing to expectations, maybe we are where we are by default.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

We’ve played one bad game in 8, which IMO was yesterday. Not bad for a rebuilding team with a new game plan. And plenty of injuries to KPP.

But we have always had plenty of injuries and seem destined by fate to continue having them. Our injuries really need to be factored into projected form and not seen as an excuse each year. I always grind on about the likelihood of serious injuries to important players knowing my unpopular pessimism will be vindicated by events. When the first occurs, the rest follow like lined up dominoes falling. If there were betting odds available on Collingwood injuries, I'd risk my retirement savings on them happening, and advise others to do the same.

 

[stormskye]

But we have always had plenty of injuries and seem destined by fate to continue having them. Our injuries really need to be factored into projected form and not seen as an excuse each year. I always grind on about the likelihood of serious injuries to important players knowing my unpopular pessimism will be vindicated by events. When the first occurs, the rest follow like lined up dominoes falling. If there were betting odds available on Collingwood injuries, I'd risk my retirement savings on them happening, and advise others to do the same.

I agree that injuries are expected, unfortunately elliot we are lucky to get on the park for half a season… the issue we have atm is where our injuries lie. We are already weak for KPP. We’ve now lost Grundy, roughie, kreuger for significant periods, add to that back ups in dean and Johnson for significant periods as well. That’s just ridiculous bad luck to KPP for a team that’s already lacking there. I don’t think there’s a team with so many out for half or more of a season. The injuries have been particularly serious.

 

[Apex36]

I actually was expecting to finish in the eight, so I wasn't expecting bottom 4 or less.

Season started in December plus training, team, line and individual meetings. Sometimes a good coach has alternative plans when things are either not going the way they anticipated especially during a game. I haven't seen this yet.

I also don't see where we are as something of note given other teams are not playing to expectations, maybe we are where we are by default.

Your expectations were probably unrealistic then, given where the club is currently at in terms of our list profile and player development.

 

[Sea fog]

Not this again. How many failed trials of Moore forward do we need before we realise it’s not the role for him.

Especially now that we have a functioning forward line.

Have we really got a well functioning forward line? We are kicking bigger scores but we are going in there a lot more times and there are countless times it comes straight out because of marks to the opposition.

 

[jonbe54]

I actually was expecting to finish in the eight, so I wasn't expecting bottom 4 or less.

Season started in December plus training, team, line and individual meetings. Sometimes a good coach has alternative plans when things are either not going the way they anticipated especially during a game. I haven't seen this yet.

I also don't see where we are as something of note given other teams are not playing to expectations, maybe we are where we are by default.

By default if you mean because we lack experience and and strong bodies then yes.

Look Maggie - take a look at our two highest paid players.

They take up a HUGE chunk of the players payroll and they aren't producing to the expectations those contracts were based upon.

That is the first facet, now for the kicker.

Because of the length as well as the size of those contracts we find ourselves in desperate trouble having cap room to recruit properly.

This won't end soon.

Time to face facts - the players hold the whip hand due to the management propaganda.

3 times recently we have been forced over the barrel and done dry.

Beams . . . Grundy . . . Moore.

Beams and Grundy can be attributed to the previous administration but Moore is this administration's bungle.

Time to stop being victims.

Performance clauses in EVERY contract and those performance clauses ENFORCED with energy - every player made to earn the contract they have negotiated bar injuries - NO EXCEPTIONS.

It simply has to stop.

 

[JuniorB]

That’s very true. I wonder if we begin to start putting stock into guys who are available. We have way too many guys on our list who are risk reward players with their body that absolutely burns us year on year.

I’m starting to wish we just had honest footballers with less talent but play every game over guys who are super talented with injury risk. Every single year we get hurt

Can we get Presti out of retirement? He, or someone like him, would be exactly what we need.

 

[ksardog]

Once the attacking style is second nature the defensive end will get tweaked to accommodate.

Our biggest and most important change needed was the ability to score.

how is the full back not being accountable for his opponent going to affect our scoring efforts in attack? He may get 4-5 intercept marks that could turn into 1-2 scoring chain assists at best, but it’s also giving his opponent 4-5 uncontested marks inside 50 which is definitely costing us minimum 3-4 goals. It’s just not worth it
Moore is an intercept marker, as is Howe, both prefer to take that risk instead of playing tight, can’t afford that down there

secondly, get Pendlebury out of defence and back in the middle, we need one touch players in there, we are going with fumblers at the centre square, it’s costing us badly. A combination of Cameron, Adams, Crisp and T Brown is scaring nobody. Get Nick Daicos in there too. Crisp back to half back.
Get Cox in as first ruck ( my choice would be Moore but that will never happen ) we need to get first touch and at 7 2 with a leap , it gives us every chance. I think he has hurt his career by not wanting to be a ruckman

DeGoey to split his time between forward and centre, give him a run in the middle when either Pendles or Daicos is resting. We want him getting the ball forward of centre, not in defensive 50

Henry is looking better by the week, he has confidence at this level now. And he leads at the ball carrier
Losing Elliott has hurt us going into attack, Henry is the closest we have to him in the way he plays as a forward

 

[ksardog]

I’m sure they could see it, but making changes on match day requires the players to make adjustments too, it’s not just the coaches.this year was always going to be a process of learning a new game style, having it become second nature, and then making adjustments over time.
We’re 8 rounds in to the season and sitting marginally outside the 8 after finishing second last in 2021, and you’re questioning our coaching panel? Really?

Nobody was expecting us to finish above bottom 3-4 at the start of the year, I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could be unhappy with our overall progress thus far…

no way I expected to finish in the bottom 4 this year

 

[JuniorB]

+1 to gouks.

Not sure we can look at our defence in isolation of what's taking place upfield but I too get frustrated because our defenders too often look like lame ducks.

Last year, (plus the year before ), we played a style of game that minimised how often our defenders got caught out. We'd buy them time to get into space with our sideways kicking.

Low risk, low reward footy.

We're more successful this year and things are on the up.

Our defenders are pressing forward to speed transition into F50, so they get caught out over the back.
That needs tweaking, but our forwards & mids need to lock the ball in the front half better.
A work in progress.

 

[Maggie5]

By default if you mean because we lack experience and and strong bodies then yes.

Look Maggie - take a look at our two highest paid players.

They take up a HUGE chunk of the players payroll and they aren't producing to the expectations those contracts were based upon.

That is the first facet, now for the kicker.

Because of the length as well as the size of those contracts we find ourselves in desperate trouble having cap room to recruit properly.

This won't end soon.

Time to face facts - the players hold the whip hand due to the management propaganda.

3 times recently we have been forced over the barrel and done dry.

Beams . . . Grundy . . . Moore.

Beams and Grundy can be attributed to the previous administration but Moore is this administration's bungle.

Time to stop being victims.

Performance clauses in EVERY contract and those performance clauses ENFORCED with energy - every player made to earn the contract they have negotiated bar injuries - NO EXCEPTIONS.

It simply has to stop.

Sorry, I am not one to take into account what players are paid. I don't believe player performance has any influence on how much they are paid.
Good luck to them.

By default if you mean because we lack experience and and strong bodies then yes.

Yes we lack experience but I don't think bigger bodies would have helped yesterday.