News Coaching Thread: The Hardwick Era

[Jirik13]

Rowell and Anderson are 20 year old kids. To expect much more then what they are producing (which is pretty damn good) is a bit of a stretch mate.

Exactly, both are in 3rd year and first year as full time inside midfielders. I am confident in 2 years they will be killing it. Oliver and Petraca were nowhere near current performances in their 3rd year. Look at Walsh this year, playing inside and is nowhere close to performances on the outside last year and he is in his 4th year. How long did it take Miller to become 2 way running beast.

Anderson still needs to work on his upper body, some of his tackling is poor, and not running himself into complete exhaustion so he can't kick. Some of his decisions are still poor. But he is a great talent and plays very good footy already.
Rowell first half against Lions convinced me he will be great too in a couple of years despite injuries. That was some fine performance early in the game.

My obvious question for selection committee would be why do you play them full time inside right now. Why not have Swallow there. Why not lessen their load. The only answer I can come up is that the sooner they go through full load inside the better for us (in the next year or two) provided their bodies can handle it. Right now, I don't like this approach.

 

[SandyToes]

My obvious question for selection committee would be why do you play them full time inside right now. Why not have Swallow there. Why not lessen their load. The only answer I can come up is that the sooner they go through full load inside the better for us (in the next year or two) provided their bodies can handle it. Right now, I don't like this approach.

Which is why I'd love to see Constable get a run soon
We should be loading up the bench with these older harder bodies
Constable Atkins Swallow even Sam Day
Hail Mary selections like DMac Davies Graham aren't helping our young superstars develop
Get the A graders right THEN worry about the next level

 

[Jirik13]

Our coaching situation right now reeks of Dimma Hardwick all over. Richmond fans all wanted him sacked in 2016 the year before Richmond went on to win the first of their three flags under Dimma in 2017. Not saying that we will go on to win the flag next year but quite often fans and clubs get frustrated about their coach right before they are on the brink of something great. So do we stick fat or step into the unknown and potentially put up with another 5 years of adapting and rebuilding.

If you look at our list we are in an incredibly healthy and promising spot. In fact, this is the best list on paper we have ever had in our short history. I really feel like next year is a make or break year for our SUNS. I for one am expecting a huge difference in W/L ratio next year. We cannot underestimate a fully healthy fit and firing Ben King. We have had multiple re-signings for core players and belief is there within the playing group by all reports.

The only concern I have is Dew's inability to develop players and get the most out of their potential. Right now I'd say this is our largest area of concern. Rowell, Anderson, Rankine and Luko should be far more influential and better than what they are right now more than 3 years into the AFL system. Our club needs to have an internal review into player development. As others have pointed out Brodie, Wright, Lyons, Ah Chee, Lynch, May etc have all gone to another level of their football under different coaches and schemes. Where are we going wrong? If it was just a few you could say it was an outlier but it is a consistent theme for us which indicates there is a far larger problem at our club.

As for development, Dew is not development coach. How much time do you think he can spend with players to develop their skills? Maybe showing them how to kick? Dew is basically environment manager. We got development coaches, Shaw and so on. We got 48 players.

As for players who left, none of them took it to another level except maybe Lyons, IMHO.

May and Lynch played some great footy for Suns as far as I remember. It took 2 years for May with Demons to realize he was lazy, out of shape and did not work hard. As for Lynch, I don't think he plays better for Tigers than for Suns a year before PCL issues.

Wright had some very good games for us too. Just watched him against Bulldogs. Yes, he scored goals as he is their primary target. Another level? Surely not. Better? Yes, but still dropping marks as before, often soft. Casboult on rookie salary has similar numbers.

Ah Chee, in his first two years with Lions was struggling. Only now he started to look like he belongs. Much easier to do on one of the best teams.

Brodie, we all knew he can play inside. He was not going to replace Anderson and Rowell. He still seems often jogging there why poor Mundy covers.

Lyons, yes he improved but let's not forget that even by his own admission he did not work hard and that was the reason why Crows and Suns let him go.

Lyons and Brodie were on their last chance with new clubs and credit to them they took it. A lot of that has to do with a team, how they fit, where the team is at.

Lyons was the last person to start re-build around. His half-ass efforts for Suns still piss me off. His numbers in his first year under Rocket were not far from current ones and yet Rocket also dropped him.

I just think that our midfield is still too young, 1-2 more years needed for their development. I would like to see a couple of mature bodies there (Swallow, Fiorini,...) more often to share the load.

Once team improves, all players look better. I still remember when Lions were losing under Fagan, supporters wanted to drop half of the team, Rich was useless and so on.

Which is why I'd love to see Constable get a run soon
We should be loading up the bench with these older harder bodies
Constable Atkins Swallow even Sam Day
Hail Mary selections like DMac Davies Graham aren't helping our young superstars develop
Get the A graders right THEN worry about the next level

Yeah, Constable looked good inside in VFL on weekend. Day also looks in better shape now and his set-shots were surprisingly good.
Atkins, I actually liked what he showed early in the season on the wing.

It does seem like we are still putting games into our future. It will probably bite Dew and co.

 

[robo_1]

It's been taken a bit out of context, my point was we continually struggle to develop our players properly. If they were at another club they'd be playing to Patty Cripps level was my point.

I would say we struggle with consistency..
too often we have too many passengers with half arsed efforts and waiting for other handful of players to do the hard work

We are missing that hard edge. We have a team of nice guys that lose confidence easily when the chips are down and not much mongrel in themselves to roll up their sleeves and get dirty

 

[Bucking Bronco]

As for development, Dew is not development coach. How much time do you think he can spend with players to develop their skills? Maybe showing them how to kick? Dew is basically environment manager. We got development coaches, Shaw and so on. We got 48 players.

As for players who left, none of them took it to another level except maybe Lyons, IMHO.

May and Lynch played some great footy for Suns as far as I remember. It took 2 years for May with Demons to realize he was lazy, out of shape and did not work hard. As for Lynch, I don't think he plays better for Tigers than for Suns a year before PCL issues.

Wright had some very good games for us too. Just watched him against Bulldogs. Yes, he scored goals as he is their primary target. Another level? Surely not. Better? Yes, but still dropping marks as before, often soft. Casboult on rookie salary has similar numbers.

Ah Chee, in his first two years with Lions was struggling. Only now he started to look like he belongs. Much easier to do on one of the best teams.

Brodie, we all knew he can play inside. He was not going to replace Anderson and Rowell. He still seems often jogging there why poor Mundy covers.

Lyons, yes he improved but let's not forget that even by his own admission he did not work hard and that was the reason why Crows and Suns let him go.

Lyons and Brodie were on their last chance with new clubs and credit to them they took it. A lot of that has to do with a team, how they fit, where the team is at.

Lyons was the last person to start re-build around. His half-ass efforts for Suns still piss me off. His numbers in his first year under Rocket were not far from current ones and yet Rocket also dropped him.

I just think that our midfield is still too young, 1-2 more years needed for their development. I would like to see a couple of mature bodies there (Swallow, Fiorini,...) more often to share the load.

Once team improves, all players look better. I still remember when Lions were losing under Fagan, supporters wanted to drop half of the team, Rich was useless and so on.

Yeah, Constable looked good inside in VFL on weekend. Day also looks in better shape now and his set-shots were surprisingly good.
Atkins, I actually liked what he showed early in the season on the wing.

It does seem like we are still putting games into our future. It will probably bite Dew and co.

Rocket never dropped Lyons, you might want to get your facts right before you go making fictitious narratives to excuse every thing.



Injured his ankle vs Collingwood, and came out of team twice due to the initial injury and then it flaring up a couple of weeks later.

I agree that most of the players that left haven't really gone to another level, but that's what makes it such an indictment on Dew, that he can't see the virtues of players and utilise them, but other coaches can.

 

[Jirik13]

Rocket never dropped Lyons, you might want to get your facts right before you go making fictitious narratives to excuse every thing.

Take it easy, not making fictitious narratives. If I am wrong regarding Lyons dropped by Rocket, I apologize. I don't have time to check it right now. I was pretty sure he was dropped. The rest about Lyons I stand by. I read his interviews, where he actually admitted he did not work hard and I watched him on multiple occasions where he did not work hard, argued with teammates. I also acknowledged that he is better player now. Different opinions.

 

[ASHMOREACE]

As for development, Dew is not development coach. How much time do you think he can spend with players to develop their skills? Maybe showing them how to kick? Dew is basically environment manager. We got development coaches, Shaw and so on. We got 48 players.

As for players who left, none of them took it to another level except maybe Lyons, IMHO.

May and Lynch played some great footy for Suns as far as I remember. It took 2 years for May with Demons to realize he was lazy, out of shape and did not work hard. As for Lynch, I don't think he plays better for Tigers than for Suns a year before PCL issues.

Wright had some very good games for us too. Just watched him against Bulldogs. Yes, he scored goals as he is their primary target. Another level? Surely not. Better? Yes, but still dropping marks as before, often soft. Casboult on rookie salary has similar numbers.

Ah Chee, in his first two years with Lions was struggling. Only now he started to look like he belongs. Much easier to do on one of the best teams.

Brodie, we all knew he can play inside. He was not going to replace Anderson and Rowell. He still seems often jogging there why poor Mundy covers.

Lyons, yes he improved but let's not forget that even by his own admission he did not work hard and that was the reason why Crows and Suns let him go.

Lyons and Brodie were on their last chance with new clubs and credit to them they took it. A lot of that has to do with a team, how they fit, where the team is at.

Lyons was the last person to start re-build around. His half-ass efforts for Suns still piss me off. His numbers in his first year under Rocket were not far from current ones and yet Rocket also dropped him.

I just think that our midfield is still too young, 1-2 more years needed for their development. I would like to see a couple of mature bodies there (Swallow, Fiorini,...) more often to share the load.

Once team improves, all players look better. I still remember when Lions were losing under Fagan, supporters wanted to drop half of the team, Rich was useless and so on.

Yeah, Constable looked good inside in VFL on weekend. Day also looks in better shape now and his set-shots were surprisingly good.
Atkins, I actually liked what he showed early in the season on the wing.

It does seem like we are still putting games into our future. It will probably bite Dew and co.

Agree with most but maybe we should drop down to 40 quality players, maybe the deadwood in the 49 is stopping the full development of the others. Heard a story that Hinkley when he was here spent most of his time with Karmichael Hunt, we haven't learnt

 

[SandyToes]

Agree with most but maybe we should drop down to 40 quality players, maybe the deadwood in the 49 is stopping the full development of the others.

Definitely my take
I reckon if you said to Sam Day-hey you can play CHF ressies or 3rd tall in the firsts I know which one he'd grab
But no-we'll try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with Caleb Graham or try and make a tall out of a mid or play someone out of position
Coaches need to take their own advice and get the basics right before trying for the miracle play with guys who are definite maybes
(Graham Bella MacPherson Conroy Murtagh)

 

[ASHMOREACE]

Definitely my take
I reckon if you said to Sam Day-hey you can play CHF ressies or 3rd tall in the firsts I know which one he'd grab
But no-we'll try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with Caleb Graham or try and make a tall out of a mid or play someone out of position
Coaches need to take their own advice and get the basics right before trying for the miracle play with guys who are definite maybes
(Graham Bella MacPherson Conroy Murtagh)

Probably 42 is the number, 38 main , 4 rookies , all have to have the basic skills , none of these footy converts till we make finals. Who knows how having them even in the training drills may reduce the performance of the whole group. These extra spots has been a hindrance rather than help, just get 6 specialist vfl players ie Whyllie Buzza instead

 

[Jirik13]

Agree with most but maybe we should drop down to 40 quality players, maybe the deadwood in the 49 is stopping the full development of the others. Heard a story that Hinkley when he was here spent most of his time with Karmichael Hunt, we haven't learnt

Yeah, I am also not a fan of extended list with limited resources.

 

[robo_1]

There was an interview with Steve hocking on 3aw pre game the other week and he suggested lists 35 with access to a covid type top up list if you get too smashed with injuries

 

[kreglze]

There was an interview with Steve hocking on 3aw pre game the other week and he suggested lists 35 with access to a covid type top up list if you get too smashed with injuries

Don't mind this. Also allows new teams to come in without diluting the current talent pool.

 

[eighties]

Imagine your career is on the line and your sitting at home thinking about how to win the game vs Collingwood ( a very winnable game) and you decide that you will take your most experienced mid in David Swallow

24

David Swallow

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

7.3

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

4.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

19.4

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

CL

4.4

5star

who played his best game of the year last week AS A MID and you chuck him back on the back flank. Then you let an out of form Alex Davies (*do rate him but is young and out of form) take his midfield minutes..... Then you bring in Darcy f****n McPherson into the team which is the same thing as playing with one less bloke on the field. Officially done with Stuey as a coach.

 

[OB11]

As for development, Dew is not development coach. How much time do you think he can spend with players to develop their skills? Maybe showing them how to kick? Dew is basically environment manager. We got development coaches, Shaw and so on. We got 48 players.

As for players who left, none of them took it to another level except maybe Lyons, IMHO.

May and Lynch played some great footy for Suns as far as I remember. It took 2 years for May with Demons to realize he was lazy, out of shape and did not work hard. As for Lynch, I don't think he plays better for Tigers than for Suns a year before PCL issues.

Wright had some very good games for us too. Just watched him against Bulldogs. Yes, he scored goals as he is their primary target. Another level? Surely not. Better? Yes, but still dropping marks as before, often soft. Casboult on rookie salary has similar numbers.

Ah Chee, in his first two years with Lions was struggling. Only now he started to look like he belongs. Much easier to do on one of the best teams.

Brodie, we all knew he can play inside. He was not going to replace Anderson and Rowell. He still seems often jogging there why poor Mundy covers.

Lyons, yes he improved but let's not forget that even by his own admission he did not work hard and that was the reason why Crows and Suns let him go.

Lyons and Brodie were on their last chance with new clubs and credit to them they took it. A lot of that has to do with a team, how they fit, where the team is at.

Lyons was the last person to start re-build around. His half-ass efforts for Suns still piss me off. His numbers in his first year under Rocket were not far from current ones and yet Rocket also dropped him.

I just think that our midfield is still too young, 1-2 more years needed for their development. I would like to see a couple of mature bodies there (Swallow, Fiorini,...) more often to share the load.

Once team improves, all players look better. I still remember when Lions were losing under Fagan, supporters wanted to drop half of the team, Rich was useless and so on.

Yeah, Constable looked good inside in VFL on weekend. Day also looks in better shape now and his set-shots were surprisingly good.
Atkins, I actually liked what he showed early in the season on the wing.

It does seem like we are still putting games into our future. It will probably bite Dew and co.

Either he can't develop players, can't motivate players or can't devise a game plan to get the best out of players.

Any of those 3 is a sackable offence after 5 years.

 

[robo_1]

Either he can't develop players, can't motivate players or can't devise a game plan to get the best out of players.

Any of those 3 is a sackable offence after 5 years.

This is where the board is an issue they should be applying maximum heat on him but they’re happy with him

 

[Young_Guns]

Either he can't develop players, can't motivate players or can't devise a game plan to get the best out of players.

Any of those 3 is a sackable offence after 5 years.

IMO it is still a gameplan issue more than anything that, alarmingly, is leading to stalling development in our young ‘stars’.

• Luko is just not going to work as a forward under this game plan until he builds himself up (I don’t know if that will ever happen). The way we set up we are just bypassing him and there is no way to develop his leading because we don’t hit up short targets. At least if he is up on the wing he is the one kicking it instead of standing around.
• Rankine has been just awful, but why not at least try him up on the wing/on ball for genuine minutes, or even send him to the VFL to do it instead of doing nothing about it.
• Rowell and Anderson are our blue-chip midfielders but they are only going to be around another 5 years if we keep running them into the ground. It’s not like we have other players like I dunno Swallow, Fiorini, Davies, Flanders, Holland, Constable, Tsitas as clearance players to take a bit of load off them and give them minutes on half-forward to develop a bit of forward craft and keeping our midfield rotations fresh.
• Flanders - is he a forward? Is he a mid? I dunno but it doesn’t seem like the coaching staff does either. Bringing him up for a few games on a flank to then go back to the 2’s and play through the midfield certainly isn’t helping anyone.
• Sharp IMO most affected by the lack of game plan. Last year he was coming into his own as a hard running winger hitting up short kicks and one-twos, holding his width. When I watched him in the 1’s a few weeks ago he looked lost, just getting the ball and launching it, offering little with ball-in hand And no confidence.
• Holland I understand he is coming back from an ACL (2 years ago!) but you cannot tell me he would offer us less than we get from Macpherson or Rankine. The kid is a competitor and consistently in our best at VFL level. Why are we not at least rewarding his form and giving him a taste. We don’t have to run him into the ground, but with Dew’s track record I just don’t buy this whole ‘we are building up his core’ talk.

These kids are meant to be our future AA’s taking us forward, but at this stage I would say we are getting maybe 20% out of them collectively.
How many players could you argue have genuinely improved so far this year? Noah, Mally, Ainsworth. Touk, Witts and Collins are stars. Alarming given how young our side is. Something’s gotta give.

 

[CommittedSuns]

Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

51

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

has resigned… unsure if this means Clarkson is headed there or not

 

[Iva Bigun]

Leon Cameron has resigned… unsure if this means Clarkson is headed there or not

Giants, Cameron with a history of strong results and a poor start to the year, both parties agree to end it

Suns, 4.5 years of terrible results and we are about to re-sign our coach

One club is proactive and will not accept poor results ( signs of a strong culture) the other is us

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

Leon Cameron has resigned… unsure if this means Clarkson is headed there or not

Wonder if it forces the Suns/AFL hand.

I guess it depends on want Clarko wants to do. Both Suns and GWS have lists packed with talent. Clarko doesn't seem like the re-build type, which might be on the cards at GWS soon.

 

[Ben Drever]

TWOMEY: Leon's exit puts Clarko in spotlight, will merry-go-round begin?

Alastair Clarkson looms large as Leon Cameron's successor at GWS but history suggests other will clamour for his services, writes Cal Twomey

www.afl.com.au

Watch other clubs s**t there pants.. coming into and after the bye.

Few more coaches to go.

SO IM TOLD

 

[Jirik13]

Interesting to listen to King on AFL360 yesterday about re-builds and the fate of coaches who take on the job. King talked about North and Noble but then he extrapolated to other rebuilds.

It's a long list but basically all rebuilds take 5-7 years minimum and all but a few coaches don't last to see success. Notable exceptions were Clarkson and Hardwick but even they were very close to be fired. Clarkson was actually one failed tackle to be shown the door according to him and others.

Goodwin was under enormous pressure too and he even has not started the re-build as he benefited from Roos previous ground work.

Cameron had 9 and half years and took over after Sheedy initial set up. Probably good time to move on.

As for Dew, if Suns get min 10 wins, show progress he probably gets a couple more years - fine with me.

No issue to wait how the season progresses. The players seem to support him and believe in a system. The performance against Swans was bloody good especially the last quarter (except conversion). The list looks very good, starting to mature and players re-sign. One more year into Anderson, Rowell, Davies and others - it could be watch out.

Let's see if Suns can beat Freo this Sun. Would love to see that just to read reactions here.

 

[Ben Drever]

Who would u rather…

Hypothetical of cause .
No names or clubs.. just pure speculation bullshit.


The coach who got you to the top but 2 years later he new he wasn’t the coach/man to take the club forward and. Took the high road for the best of club.


Or the coach who keeps you bottom 4-5 year after year and who put the rack away.
Keeping the club in the firing line year on year

 

[The Victorian]

James Hird will coach GWS

 

[robo_1]

James Hird will coach GWS

Doubt it

 

[Ben Drever]

Well this sure ain’t happening lol

Alastair Clarkson’s call on AFL coaching return will ‘pretty much come down to one thing’

A Giant question: Clarko’s call on AFL return will ‘pretty much come down to one thing’

www.foxsports.com.au