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Jan 13, 2013
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So right side dominant unfortunately. He's like a throwback to the 90s. Great attack on the ball though.

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Yeah would really suck to have a one-sided midfielder in the team.
Imagine having one and then paying him 800K a year as well.
 
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Mulldogg

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He actually got caught on his left side this week and had a crack at a kick. Still looked very forced and unnatural.

I still find it hard to believe players can make it all the way through the elite pathways growing up then wind up on an AFL list and not be proficient on both sides of their body. By both hand and foot.
 

Goosecat

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He actually got caught on his left side this week and had a crack at a kick. Still looked very forced and unnatural.

I still find it hard to believe players can make it all the way through the elite pathways growing up then wind up on an AFL list and not be proficient on both sides of their body. By both hand and foot.
This really is one of those Myths that needs busting. The true reality is, VERY FEW humans period, do not have a dominant side. VERY FEW AFL footballers and in fact any athletes period, are good on their non dominant side. Why the hell are the best tennis players not smashing right and left handed forehands? Bloody Nadal was always held back by this weakness.:rolleyes: People saying they can't believe players make it to AFL without being proficient on both sides are just not on the reality train. It can be handy no doubt but for the vast majority of all AFL players, not even worth considering out there.
 
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donpyke92

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This really is one of those Myths that needs busting. The true reality is, VERY FEW humans period, do not have a dominant side. VERY FEW AFL footballers and in fact any athletes period, are good on their non dominant side. Why the hell are the best tennis players not smashing right and left handed forehands? Bloody Nadal was always held back by this weakness. People saying they can't believe players make it to AFL without being proficient on both sides are just not on the reality train. It can be handy no doubt but for the vast majority of all AFL players, not even worth considering out there.
I agree with you GC.
Think kids can learn quite a lot easier before they get to teenage footy.

The real talent will just dominate underage, so no real drive to be dual sided.

I think it's an untapped thing that skills coaches should do as soon as a young fella gets on an AFL list.
Might be too late at 18, but at least the player has some confidence in their ability kicking on the unnatural side if they get coached.
Rob Wiley.....great to have him at the club, he knows this stuff already
 

EagleMan87

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This really is one of those Myths that needs busting. The true reality is, VERY FEW humans period, do not have a dominant side. VERY FEW AFL footballers and in fact any athletes period, are good on their non dominant side. Why the hell are the best tennis players not smashing right and left handed forehands? Bloody Nadal was always held back by this weakness. People saying they can't believe players make it to AFL without being proficient on both sides are just not on the reality train. It can be handy no doubt but for the vast majority of all AFL players, not even worth considering out there.
I don't think anyone's expecting Sam Mitchell/Ben Cousins level ambidexterity, but an AFL player should at least have the option of using their non-dominant side.

Duggan's best kick on the weekend was on his non-preferred, to set up Darling's goal. If someone like Gaff were in the same position, he would have to stop his natural run to turn onto his left foot, and probably wouldn't have hit the target.
 
He looks like a total alien in this team because it is literally amazing that someone carry's the football in this team anymore.

West is the breath of fresh air we haven't seen in a running midfielder since Shuey in 2011.

His ability to carry the ball helps open up the opposition defense, which picks off our horrendously slow chip stop turn backwards game plan so easily.
 

shooshka

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This really is one of those Myths that needs busting. The true reality is, VERY FEW humans period, do not have a dominant side. VERY FEW AFL footballers and in fact any athletes period, are good on their non dominant side. Why the hell are the best tennis players not smashing right and left handed forehands? Bloody Nadal was always held back by this weakness. People saying they can't believe players make it to AFL without being proficient on both sides are just not on the reality train. It can be handy no doubt but for the vast majority of all AFL players, not even worth considering out there.

Ambidexterity is one thing, and I'm not sure anyone is expecting that.

Competence on the non-preferred side is a different thing, and should be prioritised.

It's no coincidence that quite often the guys that are not that fast, seem to have the most time in the contest, and those guys generally have at least a level of capability on their non-preferred side.

Mitchell, Pendlebury, then some slightly quicker players in Shuey , Whitfield, Salem. Then going back further Stevie J or even back to the Jarman brothers, Greg Williams.

None of them are really express pace players, some are even at the slower end. But using both sides well (not equally, but well) allows them to buy time and space.


I think this is even more prevalent in the time of the stand rule - if players have no idea which way you will turn that is half the battle won (as they can't just zone one side - which means that gaps open up).
 
He looks like a total alien in this team because it is literally amazing that someone carry's the football in this team anymore.

West is the breath of fresh air we haven't seen in a running midfielder since Shuey in 2011.

His ability to carry the ball helps open up the opposition defense, which picks off our horrendously slow chip stop turn backwards game plan so easily.

We play like netballers. Take possession and our feet are suddenly nailed to the ground.
 

DanWCE

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Mitchell, Pendlebury, then some slightly quicker players in Shuey , Whitfield, Salem. Then going back further Stevie J or even back to the Jarman brothers, Greg Williams.

None of them are really express pace players, some are even at the slower end. But using both sides well (not equally, but well) allows them to buy time and space.

Priddis
 

Tyberious Funk

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Mitchell, Pendlebury, then some slightly quicker players in Shuey , Whitfield, Salem. Then going back further Stevie J or even back to the Jarman brothers, Greg Williams.

None of them are really express pace players, some are even at the slower end. But using both sides well (not equally, but well) allows them to buy time and space.

IMHO, this is why foot speed is overrated. If a player has either poor football vision and has to pause to hit up a target, or pauses to kick on their non-preferred, or slows down to get onto their preferred foot.... suddenly their pace becomes less lethal. Whereas there are some players who seem to have plenty of time, despite being slow runners.

Plus... I don't care how fast you are, you aren't out-running a kick. Teams that can dispose of the ball quickly and accurately put the opposition out of position and miraculously look like they are super-fast.
 

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Goosecat

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Ambidexterity is one thing, and I'm not sure anyone is expecting that.

Competence on the non-preferred side is a different thing, and should be prioritised.

It's no coincidence that quite often the guys that are not that fast, seem to have the most time in the contest, and those guys generally have at least a level of capability on their non-preferred side.

Mitchell, Pendlebury, then some slightly quicker players in Shuey , Whitfield, Salem. Then going back further Stevie J or even back to the Jarman brothers, Greg Williams.

None of them are really express pace players, some are even at the slower end. But using both sides well (not equally, but well) allows them to buy time and space.


I think this is even more prevalent in the time of the stand rule - if players have no idea which way you will turn that is half the battle won (as they can't just zone one side - which means that gaps open up).
Once again, it's focusing on the few and trying to correlate that to the vast majority. How about I list the other 95% of all AFL mids, including best mids and Brownlow winners who almost never use the non dominant side? Even those few you list almost never use their non dominant side. The rare occasions they do stand out in yours and the medias mind. In truth, over 95% of all disposals, from everyone, are from the dominant side.
It's funny how peoples minds work sometimes. It's like they see a rare occurrence and then automatically forget the other 95%, basically the entirety of the whole contest. Meanwhile almost the entirety of every single contest and player is just.... well lol.
Turning both directions is just as well done by the 95%, you're forgetting how the game and field width/options actually is out there.
The truth is, the non dominate side is almost never used by anyone, period. It's such a low percentage and rare that even mentioning it is hardly worth consideration. The majority of focus is on the over 95% of actual disposals (you know basically the entire contest) and that proficiency/effectiveness.
Once again, people who focus on this are just not on the reality train.
 
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flyinghi64

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I don't care how one sided he is if he is a mid that can win a contested ball, go in hard, lay a tackle, have a bit of swerveability and actually try to pass the ball rather than a hack kick over the shoulder.
Not even a full season in and he is best starting 22 in my books, along with Clark and Naish who shouldn't have been dropped personally..
 
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Once again, it's focusing on the few and trying to correlate that to the vast majority. How about I list the other 95% of all AFL mids, including best mids and Brownlow winners who almost never use the non dominant side? Even those few you list almost never use their non dominant side. The rare occasions they do stand out in yours and the medias mind. In truth, over 95% of all disposals, from everyone, are from the dominant side.
It's funny how peoples minds work sometimes. It's like they see a rare occurrence and then automatically forget the other 95%, basically the entirety of the whole contest. Meanwhile almost the entirety of every single contest and player is just.... well lol.
Turning both directions is just as well done by the 95%, you're forgetting how the game and field width/options actually is out there.
The truth is, the non dominate side is almost never used by anyone, period. It's such a low percentage and rare that even mentioning it is hardly worth consideration. The majority of focus is on the over 95% of actual disposals (you know basically the entire contest) and that proficiency/effectiveness.
Once again, people who focus on this are just not on the reality train.
I’m sorry mate but I disagree. I spend a lot of time training footballers at high levels to use both sides because it makes them harder to stop. Someone mentioned guys like Sam Mitchell, Pendlebury etc not being fast and not having to be because they’re dual sided. You don’t have to be perfect on both sides, but if you can be proficient on both it slows your opponent down because they don’t know which side to commit to, this gives the player more time to pick an option. It also allows players to get a ball away while hemmed in towards a boundary which means they don’t get done for HtB.
It’s only your mind that tells you that you’re no good on one side, your body knows know difference, it only knows it’s had more practice on one side than the other. Once you remove the mental block and put the practice in, your non dominant side can be almost as good and in some cases better. I’ve seen it happen.
 

Goosecat

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I’m sorry mate but I disagree. I spend a lot of time training footballers at high levels to use both sides because it makes them harder to stop. Someone mentioned guys like Sam Mitchell, Pendlebury etc not being fast and not having to be because they’re dual sided. You don’t have to be perfect on both sides, but if you can be proficient on both it slows your opponent down because they don’t know which side to commit to, this gives the player more time to pick an option. It also allows players to get a ball away while hemmed in towards a boundary which means they don’t get done for HtB.
It’s only your mind that tells you that you’re no good on one side, your body knows know difference, it only knows it’s had more practice on one side than the other. Once you remove the mental block and put the practice in, your non dominant side can be almost as good and in some cases better. I’ve seen it happen.
It's far more than just your "mind saying you're no good on one side". It is actually genetically formed mentally and physically for the majority of the world to be right side dominant. It has a bit to do with evolution, communication, speech, language and the left side brain controlling those functions which happens to also control right side motion. This has carry on physical effects in development, coordination, strength, fine motor skill etc etc. It's why there are so few "lefties" in the world by percentage.
You're not alone in exposure to high level and you should know as well as I we don't spend a lot of time working on non dominant side.Yes it is worked on no doubt, but the actual time percentage of all total training spent working on that is tiny in percentage terms. There is simply too much to cover and train for involving the 95% of actual playing dynamics.
It is not anywhere near as important as some make out and not afforded the time accordingly. If individuals want to go away and work on it in extra time, fine. However it is not a great time focus of any AFL club for a reason.
In Connors case for example, we don't add an extra 2 hrs training load to working on left side development, It just doesn't happen and if you've had any exposure you should know that. We have far more pressing and important things to work on, not the least being proficiency with actual dominant foot which he'll use more than 95% of the time and benefit us or burn us on turnover.
 
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shooshka

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It's far more than just your "mind saying you're no good on oneside". It is actually genetically formed mentally and physically for the majority of the world to be right side dominant. It has a bit to do with evolution, communication, speech, language and the left side brain controlling those functions which happens to also control right side motion. This has carry on physical effects in development, coordination, strength, fine motor skill etc etc. It's why there are so few "lefties" in the world by percentage.
You're not alone in exposure to high level and you should know as well as I we don't spend a lot of time working on non dominant side.Yes it is worked on no doubt, but the actual time percentage of all total training spent working on that is tiny in percentage terms. There is simply too much to cover and train for involving the 95% of actual playing dynamics.
It is not anywhere near as important as some make out and not afforded the time accordingly. If individuals want to go away and work on it in extra time, fine. However it is not a great time focus of any AFL club for a reason.
In Connors case for example, we don't add an extra 2 hrs training load to working on left side development, It just doesn't happen and if you've had any exposure you should know that. We have far more pressing and important things to work on, not the least being proficiency with actual dominant foot which he'll use more than 95% of the time and benefit us or burn us on turnover.
I'd say, as a team, we are playing to about 95% AFL standard at the moment.

The problem is, at the elite level fractions of a % difference have a huge impact. 2% is a massive gap and 5% is uncompetitive.

So yeah, it might be 95/5 split, but that 5% matters and can be the difference between winning and losing.

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Goosecat

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I'd say, as a team, we are playing to about 95% AFL standard at the moment.

The problem is, at the elite level fractions of a % difference have a huge impact. 2% is a massive gap and 5% is uncompetitive.

So yeah, it might be 95/5 split, but that 5% matters and can be the difference between winning and losing.

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That's a fair judgement, but apples and oranges comparison with non dominant side proficiency. However you're on the right track with percentages and calculation. Clubs do this and have to when allocating time and resources at all levels. What is the return benefit on that resource/time expense? What do we lose or trade off to gain that extra time/resource?
What is the return on time and resource investment in non dominant side disposal? Remembering that of the average 350 kicks and h/balls a game less than 5 per cent will be via a non dominant side disposal. In child like terms re disposal; Do you allocate time and resources to the 95% or to the 5%. Do we find an extra 2 hours for Connors left side development by taking him out of stoppage work to go practice it? Do we take him out of weights to go practice it? Do we just keep loading him up with extra work and hope it doesn't cause an issue in order to find the time? All for a skill almost never used in reality.
There's a reason why you rarely hear AFL players or coaches even bother mentioning it. It's so far down the ladder of beneficial return on investment.
I know it's hard for some to grasp apparently, but it is simply not a big AFL level time focus, for what should be painfully obvious reasons.
 
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shooshka

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That's a fair judgement, but apples and oranges comparison with non dominant side proficiency. However you're on the right track with percentages and calculation. Clubs do this and have to when allocating time and resources at all levels. What is the return benefit on that resource/time expense? What do we lose or trade off to gain that extra time/resource?
What is the return on time and resource investment in non dominant side disposal? Remembering that of the average 350 kicks and h/balls a game less than 5 per cent will be via a non dominant side disposal. In child like terms re disposal; Do you allocate time and resources to the 95% or to the 5%. Do we find an extra 2 hours for Connors left side development by taking him out of stoppage work to go practice it? Do we take him out of weights to go practice it? Do we just keep loading him up with extra work and hope it doesn't cause an issue in order to find the time? All for a skill almost never used in reality.
There's a reason why you rarely hear AFL players or coaches even bother mentioning it. It's so far down the ladder of beneficial return on investment.
I know it's hard for some to grasp apparently, but it is simply not a big AFL level time focus, for what should be painfully obvious reasons.
If only there were practice drills that covered stoppages and kicking. Or transition and kicking/handballing. Or forward delivery and kicking.

Because opposite side disposal can be practiced as part of that, and should be.



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Goosecat

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If only there were practice drills that covered stoppages and kicking. Or transition and kicking/handballing. Or forward delivery and kicking.

Because opposite side disposal can be practiced as part of that, and should be.



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Generally not no. All the pieces are practised to cover (I really can't believe I have to keep impressing this) 95% of all disposals that will come during the game. It's really pretty basic and if you can't get it, then there's no point carrying on the discussion really. It's not focused on by any clubs, for good reason and that's it.
 

Flarn Rarn

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Generally not no. All the pieces are practised to cover (I really can't believe I have to keep impressing this) 95% of all disposals that will come during the game. It's really pretty basic and if you can't get it, then there's no point carrying on the discussion really. It's not focused on by any clubs, for good reason and that's it.
Are 95% of disposals responsible for 95% of scores? I think it's a safe bet that a larger portion of scores against come from skill errors/turnovers, so even focusing on that 5% may have a proportionally larger benefit. I don't have an opinion on whether clubs practice it enough, but I don't think saying the overwhelming majority of possessions are on a player's dominant side is a convincing argument either.
 
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It's no coincidence that quite often the guys that are not that fast, seem to have the most time in the contest, and those guys generally have at least a level of capability on their non-preferred side.

Mitchell, Pendlebury, then some slightly quicker players in Shuey , Whitfield, Salem. Then going back further Stevie J or even back to the Jarman brothers, Greg Williams.

None of them are really express pace players, some are even at the slower end. But using both sides well (not equally, but well) allows them to buy time and space.

Don't disagree with the sentiments, but Pendlebury's a weird example to use imo. His ability to seemingly buy time has very little to do with being dual sided. I can't even picture him kicking it off his right
 

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