Slightly different topic, are there any State League tall defenders over your side of the country that are worth picking up for the mid season draft? (Thinking about a guy that can defend against the monster talls.
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I think it depends on whether you're looking for a stop-gap or a long term solution. There's a handful of key defenders in the SANFL with AFL experience. If we're talking strictly those that can handle the monster talls, Connor Ballenden is playing ruck, but he could probably go down back. Sam Durdin from Glenelg (previously on North's list) and Oscar Clavarino (previously on St Kilda's list) could be options. All three have had long enough in the AFL system that you'd think clubs would have a fair idea of their ceiling, and so while they could probably be a short term depth solution, I'd say they're probably not the long term answer.
Ballenden played as a key defender in our reserves in his last year.
Very good third man intercept marker and elite kick out of defence.
But he struggled with one on one defence and was easily out bodied by smaller opponents.
Would love to see him get a second go though.
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Sturt's Daniel Fahey-Sparks seems to get used all over the joint even in the Ruck but I've always thought his best spot was CHB, good athleticism, good closing speed and agility for a tall and an impressive leap. I reckon if he was settled on defence he'd be worth a look by an AFL club. Handy chop out on the Ruck if required too.
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Just checking out these threads and saw your comment. I actually disagree - Fahey-Sparks can really take a good contested grab and knows where the goals are. I have seen him play live plenty and I really think he could crack it as a forward at AFL level as he is very mobile and strong in the contest and as you say can pinch hit in ruck
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Opinions be like ********..
No chance he gets a crack at AFL as a forward, as a tall defender that can chop out in ruck would be his only chance and probably a slim chance at that.
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yes..yes they are
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He does seem to have some tools to work with, but that competitiveness in the contest is a critical piece. Without it, I'd expect opportunities at the next level to be limited, particularly if he was being considered in defence.
DFS has been thereabouts for a while. He always felt like he had a real rawness to him, like there was some genuine untapped potential. He's never truly won me over, but I see the intrigue with the athleticism and versatility.
Ballenden moves slower than continental drift. I certainly wouldn't be putting him near an AFL list again.
Tough call but he shades Blacker. Both in the side though, just start Billy on the ground.
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I just wanted to share some thoughts on Isaac Keeler, as I've seen some interesting discussion on the board as of late. I think he's going to be a fascinating case-study this year. We all have our own biases and Keeler ticks a lot of the 'stay away' boxes for me. It sucks being negative about a kid, but I think this is fair. Over the past two years, I've found he's often looked disinterested and lacked the competitiveness, motor and physicality that I really want to see from someone who should command an early selection. In years gone past, that would be enough for me and he'd probably find himself 35+ on my board.
Despite that, his talent is undeniable. 198cm, athletic, good skills, can cover the ground (if he wants too). There's not too many things lacking from a talent and athletic profile perspective, and that's why I'm hesitant to write him off.
Weighing up the talent vs competitiveness concerns makes this a great watch for me. I think I'll go with my gut but I'm very prepared to be wrong.
Despite that, his talent is undeniable. 198cm, athletic, good skills, can cover the ground (if he wants too). There's not too many things lacking from a talent and athletic profile perspective, and that's why I'm hesitant to write him off.
Weighing up the talent vs competitiveness concerns makes this a great watch for me. I think I'll go with my gut but I'm very prepared to be wrong.
this has been his issue for the last 2 years, he has the talent and skill, just lacks the desire to play at a high level regularly, when i have seen him play he reminds me of a young Paddy Ryder with his athleticism in the ruck and as a forward and his ability to play most roles well, but he seems to go through the motions rather than wanting to compete or dominate.
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He reminds me of a young Tyrone Vickery, had skills and at times could tear games apart at his level because of his size, but never translated and never looked like he could go beast mode in a game. Hope for his sake im wrong.
if it doesnt click, he might end up being be a Tyrone Vickery.
Chris25
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I'll start by saying I'm a big Keeler fan. I have him well inside the top 10, and probably #1 on pure talent alone.
Yes, he has tended to drift in and out of games over the last 18 months. Is it an attitude thing? I personally don't think so. And not having a go at anyone on here, I don't think this is a fair criticism to make if you haven't watched him live (which I know you would have). You miss half the game just watching on a screen, don't see the unrewarded work or lack of work that goes on away from the ball.
In Keeler's case, I think he's supremely talented and that things have just tended to go his way - and this isn't uncommon in talented KPPs. It's often in their draft year that the two way game clicks and they realise what it takes to make it at the next level. I think he has shown improvement the last few games with his overall work rate. I believe he was sick ahead of the Round 6 game, but then had his two best performances in Rounds 7 and 8. And from what I've heard about him this year, I don't think motivation is an issue. And I don't think there's a lack of work or commitment off the field.
I suspect physicality won't ever be a feature of his game, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lack of competitiveness. He has a laconic way about him in the way he moves, which I've found often highlights their quiet moments and mistakes - Jeremy Finlayson for example. Or Michael Johnson from Fremantle, he always drew the ire of some fans because of his casual style which highlighted his errors. If he was charging around he'd be noticed more, even if he wasn't getting any more touches or tackles. I just think his style can be misinterpreted as laziness. I'm really hoping he gets a chance to shine at the Champs because that will be the big test - I worry he'll be the forgotten player with Lemmey, Scully and Barnett. And if he's not given a genuine role to play, I worry these criticisms will only become further entrenched.
I think Keeler will be a frustrating player at times, and maybe he doesn't ever reach his full potential. But if he does, he could be the best player in the league. And for me, any concerns are yellow flags - not red. So he won't be leaving my top 10 any time soon.
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I think this perfectly captures the other side of the argument.
Just two points from me:
1. While I agree he's talented, I don't quite see the same ceiling. I have him a fair way off the King's and Naughton's of the world.
2. I think there's absolutely merit to the things you've said about his attitude/competitiveness. I'd just feel far more comfortable if that intensity and physicality was there. That doesn't make me right, just personal bias. Let's take Finlayson for example given you mentioned him and he's a current player. I think a greater level of physicality and intensity would make him far more consistent and raise his ceiling as a player. I'd say the same for Keeler.
Chris25
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It definitely comes down to how high you view the potential. Personally, I think he stacks up well with KPFs from the last couple of years. Thilthoroe, Ugle-Hagen, McDonald. I don’t think any of them are any more talented.
In my opinion, the other stuff will come. Maybe not for a few years still. And it is what sets apart the good from the great - like Finlayson who hasn’t taken that next step. But from a 17 year old KPP, give me a hard working pure talent over someone with good tackling pressure any day.
In my opinion, the other stuff will come. Maybe not for a few years still. And it is what sets apart the good from the great - like Finlayson who hasn’t taken that next step. But from a 17 year old KPP, give me a hard working pure talent over someone with good tackling pressure any day.
I think there’s a certain amount of risk with all draftees once you get past the first few names (like Jhye Clark who if he doesn’t end up being a gun footballer I’ll eat my shoes).
I would rather port for instance go after someone maybe a little safer who also has upside in the top ten…
But after that I think why not take the punt?
Once i get past about 10-15 names in this draft I start thinking well, this players good but it’s still a punt he turns out as you expect.
I’m really happy to take a punt on a kpp with keelers upside then.
If port ends up with a second draft pick and keelers available I’m very happy for my club to pick him.
I reckon there will be teams throughout the teens that need a player like keeler. Freo for one. Sydney.
I would rather port for instance go after someone maybe a little safer who also has upside in the top ten…
But after that I think why not take the punt?
Once i get past about 10-15 names in this draft I start thinking well, this players good but it’s still a punt he turns out as you expect.
I’m really happy to take a punt on a kpp with keelers upside then.
If port ends up with a second draft pick and keelers available I’m very happy for my club to pick him.
I reckon there will be teams throughout the teens that need a player like keeler. Freo for one. Sydney.
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Ballenden had bad eyesight at the Lions hopefully he’s had Corrective surgery which I think was a massive reason he was delisted
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Rankings Part 1 (sort of)
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I've been a bit MIA of late but I've caught up on a fair bit of footy, so I'm starting to piece together some thoughts on this years crop.
Overall I'm pretty down on this class. I'm not sure if it's a result of them missing a heap of footy or whether it's just a lean year but I'm really struggling to get excited about anyone after pick 8 or 9. It's soft as hell but I'll half commit to a rankings here to give a bit of an idea of where I'm rating guys in this group.
1. Harry Sheezel
Sheezel ticks all my boxes and whilst he may not be the safest option in that top group, I think he's got the most upside of the lot. I love what he offers in the forward half. He's special overhead, capable on the ground and has the size, speed and strength to create space for himself on the lead or inside the contest. He's really classy by foot and can be pretty clinical in front of goal. He just has all the tools to be a weapon at the next level.
2. George Wardlaw
I think Wardlaw is close to the safest option with maybe the only concern being that his health has prevented him from getting on the ground a bit this year. Assuming that's not a sign of things to come, Wardlaw projects as a quality midfielder at the next level. He's physical on the interior but also has the explosiveness to exit the contest at speed. Not an elite user but more than competent. Short of him missing the rest of the year through injury, I find it hard to not see him picked in the first few selections.
3. Elijah Tsatas
I've been well and truly sucked into the size, speed, athleticism and class of Tsatas. The contested ball-winning hasn't been there enough for me yet, but I still can't look past his ceiling as being at the level of someone like Josh Kelly. Whilst he definitely has a lower floor than someone like Ashcroft, I think the best version of Tsatas is a touch above.
4. Will Ashcroft
Easily the best performed player in the draft to date. Ashcroft gets a heap of the pill and uses it really well by both hand and foot. He's got a bit of zip from the contest so there's little doubt for me that he'll be able to find time a space at the next level. Like Daicos in last years draft, I love his appetite for the footy. The kid just wants the footy in his hands as much as possible and with his skills, that's where you want it too. I view his ceiling as slightly lower than the other three I have ahead of him, but he's as close to a sure thing as it comes.
I've got a slight dip here. I don't think it's a whole tier below, more like a 1B situation.
5 & 6 Elijah Hewett and Jhye Clark
I haven't really decided on the order yet, but I have these two next. I like Hewett's size and burst and feel like he's going to be able to physically exert himself on a contest at the next level. Clark just doesn't do a lot wrong. I feel like his kicking has improved and whilst I think he's slightly inside leaning, he's now more than capable on the outside too.
7 & 8 Mattaes Phillipou and Cam Mackenzie
I like Phillipou as an extractor and love what he can do aerially. His talent in the forward half is exceptional and he's going to be a tough match-up even at the next level. I have him a fraction behind the others because his kicking feels a bit one-dimensional at the moment (it's a lot of long down the line), but that could be a result of playing in the worst SANFL U18 side. He might be a touch slower than some of the others in this early group too, but if he keeps finding his way through traffic, I don't think that will restrict him too much at AFL level.
I mentioned that Twomey stole my Callum Mills comp in another thread but jokes aside, that's the ceiling I see for Mackenzie. I think he's a death by accumulation kind of guy, rather than impact per possession but Mackenzie can win it inside and out. I think his kicking as dropped a touch at the Champs with the added pressure, but it's not broken. Like Phillipou, I don't think he's the same speed athlete as some of the other early options, but it hasn't inhibited him one bit at U18 level.
This is where I start to get less excited.
9. Jedd Busslinger
10. Harry Lemmey
11. Harry Barnett
These are my three favourite keys at the moment, though none of them have really overwhelmed me. Busslinger is the best performed but I'm far from convinced he'll be a star at the next level. Lemmey I think is the most talented and I haven't completely lost faith in him being a special prospect, but it's hard to overlook how ordinary his year has been so far. I LOVE Barnett's contested marking and the way he moves for his size, but his kicking and decision-making can be erratic at times.
12-15 Mitch Szybkowski, Charlie Clarke, Alwyn DaveyJr and Oliver Hollands
These four guys get me to 15 and I'm really not super attached to this group at all. I think I like the upside of Alwyn the most but he's probably been the least productive of the group. I'm really optimistic about what Charlie Clarke could be at AFL level, but I like him as a value pick in the second round onwards, rather than as a genuine first rounder. I'm not overly excited by Szybkowski and Hollands but I think they could be pieces in a midfield group at AFL level.
A few other comments to wrap up:
I think Brayden George will be pretty close to this top group, but I just need to see a bit more of him.
I just can't get all the way there yet on Keeler, Cadman and Jefferson yet. Obviously Jefferson's performance was pretty special on the weekend and Keeler and Cadman have had their moments too. I think they're genuinely the 4-5 year project type key forwards which is fine, but I'm not quite there on them being a a number one option inside 50. If I'm picking one at the moment I think it's Jefferson (definitely recency bias).
Probably a bit surprising (and maybe a bit crazy), but I think I like Walker, Lovelock and Sadler more than D'Aloia, Kobe Ryan and Dowling out of the SA group. I like Walker's speed and burst in the contest. He has great hands and I think his tank will improve as he gets some continuity in his footy. I'm pretty sure I hold all the Archie Lovelock stock that exists. He's never done anything wrong in my eyes. Sadler is another that is super clean and has great speed and class with the footy.
Make no mistake, D'Aloia is incredibly special at underage level but his speed, tank and kicking is a bit of a worry for me. I love Kobe Ryan and he's performed at every level he's played, but he has to be a midfielder at AFL level and I'm just starting to worry a little bit about what that looks like. There's probably a bit more versatility to Dowling's game and the numbers are great. I think I could be talked into him but I'm not quite there yet.
To finish on a positive note, and I'll do some more on these guys in the coming days, a few other names I like: Noah Long, Max Michalanney, Coby Burgiel, Lachie Cowan, Finn Emile-Brennan, Jonti Schuback, Lewis Hayes and Tom McCallum.
Overall I'm pretty down on this class. I'm not sure if it's a result of them missing a heap of footy or whether it's just a lean year but I'm really struggling to get excited about anyone after pick 8 or 9. It's soft as hell but I'll half commit to a rankings here to give a bit of an idea of where I'm rating guys in this group.
1. Harry Sheezel
Sheezel ticks all my boxes and whilst he may not be the safest option in that top group, I think he's got the most upside of the lot. I love what he offers in the forward half. He's special overhead, capable on the ground and has the size, speed and strength to create space for himself on the lead or inside the contest. He's really classy by foot and can be pretty clinical in front of goal. He just has all the tools to be a weapon at the next level.
2. George Wardlaw
I think Wardlaw is close to the safest option with maybe the only concern being that his health has prevented him from getting on the ground a bit this year. Assuming that's not a sign of things to come, Wardlaw projects as a quality midfielder at the next level. He's physical on the interior but also has the explosiveness to exit the contest at speed. Not an elite user but more than competent. Short of him missing the rest of the year through injury, I find it hard to not see him picked in the first few selections.
3. Elijah Tsatas
I've been well and truly sucked into the size, speed, athleticism and class of Tsatas. The contested ball-winning hasn't been there enough for me yet, but I still can't look past his ceiling as being at the level of someone like Josh Kelly. Whilst he definitely has a lower floor than someone like Ashcroft, I think the best version of Tsatas is a touch above.
4. Will Ashcroft
Easily the best performed player in the draft to date. Ashcroft gets a heap of the pill and uses it really well by both hand and foot. He's got a bit of zip from the contest so there's little doubt for me that he'll be able to find time a space at the next level. Like Daicos in last years draft, I love his appetite for the footy. The kid just wants the footy in his hands as much as possible and with his skills, that's where you want it too. I view his ceiling as slightly lower than the other three I have ahead of him, but he's as close to a sure thing as it comes.
I've got a slight dip here. I don't think it's a whole tier below, more like a 1B situation.
5 & 6 Elijah Hewett and Jhye Clark
I haven't really decided on the order yet, but I have these two next. I like Hewett's size and burst and feel like he's going to be able to physically exert himself on a contest at the next level. Clark just doesn't do a lot wrong. I feel like his kicking has improved and whilst I think he's slightly inside leaning, he's now more than capable on the outside too.
7 & 8 Mattaes Phillipou and Cam Mackenzie
I like Phillipou as an extractor and love what he can do aerially. His talent in the forward half is exceptional and he's going to be a tough match-up even at the next level. I have him a fraction behind the others because his kicking feels a bit one-dimensional at the moment (it's a lot of long down the line), but that could be a result of playing in the worst SANFL U18 side. He might be a touch slower than some of the others in this early group too, but if he keeps finding his way through traffic, I don't think that will restrict him too much at AFL level.
I mentioned that Twomey stole my Callum Mills comp in another thread but jokes aside, that's the ceiling I see for Mackenzie. I think he's a death by accumulation kind of guy, rather than impact per possession but Mackenzie can win it inside and out. I think his kicking as dropped a touch at the Champs with the added pressure, but it's not broken. Like Phillipou, I don't think he's the same speed athlete as some of the other early options, but it hasn't inhibited him one bit at U18 level.
This is where I start to get less excited.
9. Jedd Busslinger
10. Harry Lemmey
11. Harry Barnett
These are my three favourite keys at the moment, though none of them have really overwhelmed me. Busslinger is the best performed but I'm far from convinced he'll be a star at the next level. Lemmey I think is the most talented and I haven't completely lost faith in him being a special prospect, but it's hard to overlook how ordinary his year has been so far. I LOVE Barnett's contested marking and the way he moves for his size, but his kicking and decision-making can be erratic at times.
12-15 Mitch Szybkowski, Charlie Clarke, Alwyn DaveyJr and Oliver Hollands
These four guys get me to 15 and I'm really not super attached to this group at all. I think I like the upside of Alwyn the most but he's probably been the least productive of the group. I'm really optimistic about what Charlie Clarke could be at AFL level, but I like him as a value pick in the second round onwards, rather than as a genuine first rounder. I'm not overly excited by Szybkowski and Hollands but I think they could be pieces in a midfield group at AFL level.
A few other comments to wrap up:
I think Brayden George will be pretty close to this top group, but I just need to see a bit more of him.
I just can't get all the way there yet on Keeler, Cadman and Jefferson yet. Obviously Jefferson's performance was pretty special on the weekend and Keeler and Cadman have had their moments too. I think they're genuinely the 4-5 year project type key forwards which is fine, but I'm not quite there on them being a a number one option inside 50. If I'm picking one at the moment I think it's Jefferson (definitely recency bias).
Probably a bit surprising (and maybe a bit crazy), but I think I like Walker, Lovelock and Sadler more than D'Aloia, Kobe Ryan and Dowling out of the SA group. I like Walker's speed and burst in the contest. He has great hands and I think his tank will improve as he gets some continuity in his footy. I'm pretty sure I hold all the Archie Lovelock stock that exists. He's never done anything wrong in my eyes. Sadler is another that is super clean and has great speed and class with the footy.
Make no mistake, D'Aloia is incredibly special at underage level but his speed, tank and kicking is a bit of a worry for me. I love Kobe Ryan and he's performed at every level he's played, but he has to be a midfielder at AFL level and I'm just starting to worry a little bit about what that looks like. There's probably a bit more versatility to Dowling's game and the numbers are great. I think I could be talked into him but I'm not quite there yet.
To finish on a positive note, and I'll do some more on these guys in the coming days, a few other names I like: Noah Long, Max Michalanney, Coby Burgiel, Lachie Cowan, Finn Emile-Brennan, Jonti Schuback, Lewis Hayes and Tom McCallum.
Cheers mate, you said its a soft group after 8/9..but the fhe top 5 are they A grade prospects? Or are they weak too?
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Shuback looked good on weekend strong leg could be a great forward pocket? What do you think of Weddell?
I love how all draft prospects are compared to Mills like players and never, Newnes style players.
Chris25
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I wouldn’t say it’s too surprising. I do quite like Kobe Ryan and I’d have him ahead of the others, but there are some decent players amongst the lesser known SA guys.
I’d have Sadler ahead of D’Aloia, Walker ahead of Dowling. For much the reasons you said. And Lovelock is just one of those guys who’ll probably end up playing more games than all of them without anyone noticing, could find a home quite easily as a half forward like Brad Close has at Geelong.
And I certainly haven’t jumped off Lemmey either. Only thing that’s changed is I’m starting to imagine him in purple.
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