Review Good/Bad: Inaccurate Crows vs St Kilda

[Interloperer]

We are clearly a better team with him in there but ideally Tex wouldn't be playing. The results would be worse but I think he has covered over some cracks and the forward line will have to completely rebuild once he's gone so a part of me wants that process to start now.

None of the Crows forward line are at the point in their career where they need to be gifted games. If they can't keep a 32yo out of the side, that's on them.

The only possible exception to that claim is Rachele. But for whatever reason most here have switched mid-sentence on him "I can't believe the Crows don't give promising youngsters a run of games in the side and PERS... OH MY GOD HE HANDBALLED INSTEAD OF KICKED HE NEEDED TO BE RESTED 5 GAMES AGO!"

A lot has been said about the poor goalkicking, dominating this thread.
However, I don't remember anybody commenting on the Saints' final quarter.

They were 6.4 at 3/4 time, 40 points, then more than doubled that kicking 8.2, another 50 points in the last .
If the Crows were 10.9 at 3/4 time (acceptable goalkicking score), they'd still have lost the game by a point.

Doesn't that suggest that:
--- the Crows faded badly defensively in the last, even though they kicked 3.2, and
--- the game was lost in the last quarter?

Or did they lose it trying to win it by attacking more and leaving themselves open to an 8.2 onslaught (which I wouldn't mind)?
Anybody?

a) St Kilda worked out what Adelaide were doing with Dawson. And there was no reaction from Adelaide.
b) St Kilda players stopped trying to earn "Sharing it around points" entering 50, and played more aggressively and directly (actually less comically indirect)
c) As with every game this year. Adelaide's good runs are something like "Lachlan Murphy looks better than usual, 8 touches this quarter!" While the oppositions tend to be more "5 goals in 3 minutes"
d) Adelaide collapsed badly in the last 4 minutes

 

[CrowBloke]

Hold on, let’s not gild the lily.

It wasn’t some great deal or masterpiece of negotiation. We just held all the leverage and used some of it.

We took him at gunpoint because the rules allowed us to do so. Somehow we wanted it to not be seen as too much banditry, so we gave them a late first

what I think was a great bit of work by us was identifying him early in the year as someone who might break out, and we put the work into him all
Year long

Everything you've said is true , but I can't put enough gold on the Dawson lily.
Only 10 games in, Dawson is our best player and we got him for a late first. That's a helluva deal ie win, for us.

 

[LeftyLuke]

Everything you've said is true , but I can't put enough gold on the Dawson lily.
Only 10 games in, Dawson is our best player and we got him for a late first. That's a helluva deal ie win, for us.

Is worth two firsts.

 

[BrissyCrow]

TT 202cm 105 kgs
Max King 202 cm 94kgs

I didn't realise that. When I was questioning whether we picked the right player (TT or McDonald) I understood that talls take longer to develop thinking that TT still had to develop his physic but you have just made me rethink more about my question. Did we pick the right player. I know its still early but your comment is making me think my question was a reasonable one. Time will tell.

 

[CroCrow]

I didn't realise that. When I was questioning whether we picked the right player (TT or McDonald) I understood that talls take longer to develop thinking that TT still had to develop his physic but you have just made me rethink more about my question. Did we pick the right player. I know its still early but your comment is making me think my question was a reasonable one. Time will tell.

King is a pure forward. Thilthorpe is neither a pure fwd or a pure ruck thats the issue McDonald is a pure fwd that's why I would have picked him myself

 

[Sanders]

Is worth two firsts.

Not to someone who has leverage to take him for less

 

[footy4ever]

Didn't we do that against them last year?

No. I think we kicked 14 without a miss but not all set shots. This season it feels like our set shots have been terrible, especially since and during the Mars game.

 

[John Who]

I didn't realise that. When I was questioning whether we picked the right player (TT or McDonald) I understood that talls take longer to develop thinking that TT still had to develop his physic but you have just made me rethink more about my question. Did we pick the right player. I know its still early but your comment is making me think my question was a reasonable one. Time will tell.

Weight does not equal to power. Particularly, you’d want core strength, and this will usually take 3-4 years in the AFL system to be comparable to most of the AFL opponents.

Max King is in his 3rd year, and he’s seeing significant benefits with improved strength. Also he’s had the benefit of playing out over 2 whole AFL seasons. RT has only played essentially 1 whole AFL season, so much too early to judge him as a full forward.

 

[Golumless]

We are clearly a better team with him in there but ideally Tex wouldn't be playing. The results would be worse but I think he has covered over some cracks and the forward line will have to completely rebuild once he's gone so a part of me wants that process to start now.

The ideal right now is Tex is playing and in form. After all, we want to make the transition from Tex -> Thilthorpe as our focal point as smooth as possible.

When it comes to rebuilding the forward line, at the moment it's just about pumping games into Thilthorpe (which we've so far failed at) and one of Fog/Gollant for our talls.

 

[Sanders]

Weight does not equal to power. Particularly, you’d want core strength, and this will usually take 3-4 years in the AFL system to be comparable to most of the AFL opponents.

Max King is in his 3rd year, and he’s seeing significant benefits with improved strength. Also he’s had the benefit of playing out over 2 whole AFL seasons. RT has only played essentially 1 whole AFL season, so much too early to judge him as a full forward.

You’re the fake doctor who was trying to tell us we were running over teams in the 4th quarter because of our superior fitness - and not because the other team was miles in front and were cruising home

That sort of misfiring analysis feels relevant here

 

[Sanders]

Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

is not a player who dominates through strength. He never has been

Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot

Max King

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “An athletic tall forward with the ability to dominate a game with his incredible athleticism and marking ability”

central.rookieme.com

 

[Golumless]

I didn't realise that. When I was questioning whether we picked the right player (TT or McDonald) I understood that talls take longer to develop thinking that TT still had to develop his physic but you have just made me rethink more about my question. Did we pick the right player. I know its still early but your comment is making me think my question was a reasonable one. Time will tell.

At the moment, it seems like we did as much as Thilthorpe had a slower start to this year. He's shown he has a bright future at AFL once he gets games under his belt (Hawks/Saints last year as examples), providing he stays healthy, and has completely mastered the 2s (noting he went at 16 disp/3.3 goals in the three games he wasn't injured this year).

Mind you, McDonald is in the same situation of mastering the twos, but is still finding his feet in the ones. Likely indicates there wasn't a genuinely wrong choice between the two at this point.

 

[Sanders]

At the moment, it seems like we did as much as Thilthorpe had a slower start to this year. He's shown he has a bright future at AFL once he gets games under his belt (Hawks/Saints last year as examples), providing he stays healthy, and has completely mastered the 2s (noting he went at 16 disp/3.3 goals in the three games he wasn't injured this year).

Mind you, McDonald is in the same situation of mastering the twos, but is still finding his feet in the ones. Likely indicates there wasn't a genuinely wrong choice between the two at this point.

McDonald has done literally nothing to make us think we picked the wrong guy

 

[Crow_Magnon]

McDonald has done literally nothing to make us think we picked the wrong guy

Dunno about that...McDonald was excellent against Carlton...10 marks 3 goals 3 behinds. May be that they were concentrating on Buddy, but I thought McDonald presented very well and marked pretty much everything that came his way. Hope you're right and TT gets to that sort of output in the 1's.

 

[MarcusP2]

Dunno about that...McDonald was excellent against Carlton...10 marks 3 goals 3 behinds. May be that they were concentrating on Buddy, but I thought McDonald presented very well and marked pretty much everything that came his way. Hope you're right and TT gets to that sort of output in the 1's.

If we're talking 1 game how about 16 disposals and 5 goals? In his first ever game?

 

[SugarShane]

They were 6.4 at 3/4 time, 40 points, then more than doubled that kicking 8.2, another 50 points in the last .
If the Crows were 10.9 at 3/4 time (acceptable goalkicking score), they'd still have lost the game by a point.

Butterfly effect though. If we're 10.9 we can play a much different final quarter to if we're 6.13. We can go lockdown mode and play a different style to being in an arm wrestle.

 

[Golumless]

McDonald has done literally nothing to make us think we picked the wrong guy

I agree with that, considering Thilthorpes start.

Still, I don't know if I'd be disappointed at this point if the shoe was on the other foot and we ended up McDonald with pick 2, as he's comparing solidly against the King bros at a similar point of their respective careers.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Max King is not a player who dominates through strength. He never has been

Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot

Max King

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “An athletic tall forward with the ability to dominate a game with his incredible athleticism and marking ability”

central.rookieme.com

I think you’ve misread a post


Thilthorpe will never be as good as max king was the point

And Thilthorpe as a seperate issue needs to get stronger in the contest ( I don’t care how much he weighs , he’s not strong yet in the contest which is not surprising for a 2nd year tall )

When he gets stronger in contest Thilthorpe will be an absolute beast ….. not max king level of talent but still a very good player

 

[Geoffa32]

forward strategy is a massive problem.

I don't think the actual strategy was the issue Saturday night though.

It was skills. Goal kicking.

We had enough shots on goal, in good spots, to win the game.



Having said that, one issue we do have is the lack of forwards who lead into space. The only big guy who really does it is Gollant.

Tex and Fog want to wrestle.

Thilthorpe is mobile, but relies on his height. He will run to space though.

Gollant leads and repeat leads.

Rachele and McAdam also good at this.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don't think the actual strategy was the issue Saturday night though.

It was skills. Goal kicking.

We had enough shots on goal, in good spots, to win the game.



Having said that, one issue we do have is the lack of forwards who lead into space. The only big guy who really does it is Gollant.

Tex and Fog want to wrestle.

Thilthorpe is mobile, but relies on his height. He will run to space though.

Gollant leads and repeat leads.

Rachele and McAdam also good at this.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

McAdam looked as good out on the lead as anyone and had clean hands overhead

Just makes a few errors but playing better than last year

 

[MRB37]

Dawson might have lined up on the wing a number of times, but he certainly pushed back into defence a lot more this week. Was often the loose man behind the Saints forwards, hell even the commentators picked up on this

Glad he was able to push forward a tad and make an impact, as well. Hopefully we see more of this

Lined up in the forward line at CB's a couple of times too.

 

[1970crow]

I don't think the actual strategy was the issue Saturday night though.

It was skills. Goal kicking.

We had enough shots on goal, in good spots, to win the game.



Having said that, one issue we do have is the lack of forwards who lead into space. The only big guy who really does it is Gollant.

Tex and Fog want to wrestle.

Thilthorpe is mobile, but relies on his height. He will run to space though.

Gollant leads and repeat leads.

Rachele and McAdam also good at this.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That’s coaching though. Nix is on record as wanting consistent and deep entries. Our forward strategy is more about defending turnovers than using the best offensive option.

 

[MRB37]

McAdam looked as good out on the lead as anyone and had clean hands overhead

Just makes a few errors but playing better than last year

Biggest thing for me with him is he looks mentally in games. Effort is there, he's busting his ass and doesn't drop off if something doesn't go for him.

 

[DJ75]

King is a pure forward. Thilthorpe is neither a pure fwd or a pure ruck thats the issue McDonald is a pure fwd that's why I would have picked him myself

I noticed it last year and it's the same this year, TT gets pushed off the line when going for a mark incredibly easily. Just can't hold ground. I'm hoping it will improve as he gains strength.
He also doesn't have the instinct to crash packs and throw himself at marks. It just isn't his game. I can see it improving a little, but not enough to make him a key forward.
When he does approach a mark it is almost always one handed. Even the mark he took was a one handed attempt that then fell to his chest.

It makes the question of what position to play him a bit tricky at this stage. He really should be played to his strength - which is a combination of size and agility. A high half forward role makes sense for now.

Long term (once he has 50+ games under his belt) however, I suspect his best position is going to be as a ruck/forward. His best performances at SANFL level before being drafted were in the ruck. Playing as a ruck that becomes an extra mid, while also having the ability to push forward and be dangerous there, will be his best role.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Biggest thing for me with him is he looks mentally in games. Effort is there, he's busting his ass and doesn't drop off if something doesn't go for him.

That’s a big change from last year where he looked unfit

I enjoy his passion out there too