Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co

[Jeffcrowe]

There's absolutely zero guarantee that any draft pick will turn into an elite player!

I think Hamish is above average in terms of who's been drafted in his tenure, especially considering the picks we've had in his early days.

You can make an argument Geelong's drafts aren't much better. Their first picks in drafts where they've had a rd1 pick in the last few years

2012 - Jackson Thurlow (16)
2013 - Darcy Lang (16)
2014 - Nakia Cockatoo (10)
2017 - Lachlan Fogarty (22)
2018 - Jordan Clark (15)
2019 - Cooper Stephens (16)
2020 - Max Holmes (20)

But it's not all about the first pick, you need to look at who is drafted overall. Add in Stewart, Menegola and Kelly and the drafting starts to look much better. Their position on the ladder avoids the critism.

Yes, we can be better at the top end, there have been misses, but getting players like Sholl, Murray, Butts, Keays, Murphy, McGovern, ROB, Cameron, Kelly certainly off-sets the top end 'fails'.

I think we are missing the classy cream on top , the types that can ice games under pressure

Usually your 1st round blue chip players like Rachele will be … there is just not enough

Lots of serviceable hard triers with good character that compete … I guess that’s his matra and that’s what we’ve got . Alot of those later picks are good picks

 

[maxlilly]

Sloane $850k. We over-reward for past efforts which comes at the expense of being able to pay on promise. But I have a feeling that has changed a bit the last 2-3 years.

I'm hoping the 'pay for tenure' model is disappearing too.

 

[Scorpus]

Because this board perennially underrated Cameron and couldn’t project what he could be , I remember people being in raptures around here for getting pick 12 for him

Pick 12 is the highest pick traded for a small forward in a decade or more

 

[Crow till I die]

Pick 12 is the highest pick traded for a small forward in a decade or more

yeah - although Papley had that trade got done to Carlton would have topped that

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Pick 12 is the highest pick traded for a small forward in a decade or more

And it was still good stuff from Brisbane

The bad part from us was not showing more love to Charlie in contract negotiations and projecting what he could be …. I admit he probably would have left anyway but that’s not the whole point

 

[Danger in Texas]

How exactly was Cameron a blunder?

Cameron wanted out and other than forcing a player that clearly wanted out to Brisbane to be nearer to family to see out his contract most thought that pick 12 was overs at the time. If I recall correctly that was a fair bit more than Brisbane wanted to cough up. My recollection is the deal went right down to the wire only going through just before the deadline when Brisbane finally relented and gave us pick 12.

Sure hindsight is great but at the time the general feeling on this board was Reid had done OK?

Yeah Cameron’s maybe a bit unfair in hindsight. Moreso thinking about the result if we held him to his contract, but would’ve wanted to leave anyway by the end of 2018, and probably would’ve gotten even less (considering he didn’t break out until 2019)

 

[Bearded Clam]

Ehh, don't subscribe to this, even if the signs for Thilthorpe and Rachele are positive

Melbourne drafted Watts, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Lucas Cook, Toumpas with first round picks. They hire Jason Taylor... Salem, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Jackson, Pickett (admittedly some of this would be down to development and general club culture improvement, but I don't think it's a coincidence)

Pretty hard to get those top 4 picks wrong though…

How many of those players Taylor has picked are top 4?.. Pet, oliver, jackson..

 

[George Kramer]

There's absolutely zero guarantee that any draft pick will turn into an elite player!

I think Hamish is above average in terms of who's been drafted in his tenure, especially considering the picks we've had in his early days.

You can make an argument Geelong's drafts aren't much better. Their first picks in drafts where they've had a rd1 pick in the last few years

2012 - Jackson Thurlow (16)
2013 - Darcy Lang (16)
2014 - Nakia Cockatoo (10)
2017 - Lachlan Fogarty (22)
2018 - Jordan Clark (15)
2019 - Cooper Stephens (16)
2020 - Max Holmes (20)

But it's not all about the first pick, you need to look at who is drafted overall. Add in Stewart, Menegola and Kelly and the drafting starts to look much better. Their position on the ladder avoids the critism.

Yes, we can be better at the top end, there have been misses, but getting players like Sholl, Murray, Butts, Keays, Murphy, McGovern, ROB, Cameron, Kelly certainly off-sets the top end 'fails'.

No way do those players offset top end fails

 

[Scorpus]

yeah - although Papley had that trade got done to Carlton would have topped that

It would have, but I still think it was a good result.

The issue is we botched the pick. Take Zac Bailey and no one is complaining

 

[Danger in Texas]

Pretty hard to get those top 4 picks wrong though…

How many of those players Taylor has picked are top 4?.. Pet, oliver, jackson..

True, but considering the top 4 picks that Melb had before them, that’s an absolute indictment on the guy before Taylor

 

[Cap]

I don't think sacked is the right term. His performance should be analysed and reviewed of it doesn't stack up, find a replacement

 

[Crow till I die]

Yeah Cameron’s maybe a bit unfair in hindsight. Moreso thinking about the result if we held him to his contract, but would’ve wanted to leave anyway by the end of 2018, and probably would’ve gotten even less (considering he didn’t break out until 2019)

Remember also, at the time many were saying that Brisbane's pick 19 should get the deal done, but not only did we get pick 12, that deal was held up until after the Gibbs deal was done as it is quite possible Carlton would have demanded our picks 10 & 12 in lieu of the picks 10 & 16 that they got

 

[Crow till I die]

It would have, but I still think it was a good result.

The issue is we botched the pick. Take Zac Bailey and no one is complaining

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think almost to a man, people were ecstatic we got fog at 12. That it looks a bust now is a real shame

 

[Bearded Clam]

How exactly was Cameron a blunder?

Cameron wanted out and other than forcing a player that clearly wanted out to Brisbane to be nearer to family to see out his contract most thought that pick 12 was overs at the time. If I recall correctly that was a fair bit more than Brisbane wanted to cough up. My recollection is the deal went right down to the wire only going through just before the deadline when Brisbane finally relented and gave us pick 12.

Sure hindsight is great but at the time the general feeling on this board was Reid had done OK?

Yep.. pick 12 for Cameron at the time was bloody good..

People around here must have the memories of goldfish.. Cameron had a 2017 that started well but went very stale in the middle of the season. If I remember coreectly he was even dropped in the period around round 13 to 17..

Came real good in the PF though.. which is what got us pick 12 you’d think..

 

[Bearded Clam]

And it was still good stuff from Brisbane

The bad part from us was not showing more love to Charlie in contract negotiations and projecting what he could be …. I admit he probably would have left anyway but that’s not the whole point

Cameron wanted more than just money.. he wanted to live up here..

We couldve held out and kept him till 2018 and he still wouldve left and we wouldve gotten far less for him..

 

[Thetrader15]

It would have, but I still think it was a good result.

The issue is we botched the pick. Take Zac Bailey and no one is complaining

I'm sure Carlton (Dow), Saints (Clark, Coffield), Calton (OBrien), GWS (Bonar), WC (Brander) and Sydney (Ling) are all saying the same thing!

Same way Richmond would be about taking Higgins and CCJ before Tim Kelly.

If only we could get EVERY pick 100% correct! IMO, the pick was right, the development hasn't been.

 

[Scorpus]

I'm sure Carlton (Dow), Saints (Clark, Coffield), Calton (OBrien), GWS (Bonar), WC (Brander) and Sydney (Ling) are all saying the same thing!

Same way Richmond would be about taking Higgins and CCJ before Tim Kelly.

If only we could get EVERY pick 100% correct! IMO, the pick was right, the development hasn't been.

It would be nice if we could get 30% of the picks right

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Cameron wanted more than just money.. he wanted to live up here..

We couldve held out and kept him till 2018 and he still wouldve left and we wouldve gotten far less for him..

Yep agree

We needed to do more earlier

 

[Thetrader15]

It would be nice if we could get 30% of the picks right

We're well above that! What's the league average for 'right picks' anyway, let's set the bar and then compare how we go.

If anyone expects every first round pick to play 100 games and get a Brownlow, they're dreaming.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yep.. pick 12 for Cameron at the time was bloody good..

People around here must have the memories of goldfish.. Cameron had a 2017 that started well but went very stale in the middle of the season. If I remember coreectly he was even dropped in the period around round 13 to 17..

Came real good in the PF though.. which is what got us pick 12 you’d think..

Much of that is correct

Some people also couldn’t project what he might become

 

[MarcusP2]

We're well above that! What's the league average for 'right picks' anyway, let's set the bar and then compare how we go.

If anyone expects every first round pick to play 100 games and get a Brownlow, they're dreaming.

I expect some of them over a period of a decade to reach that level. Otherwise you'll probably end up at the foot of the ladder for 5 years +.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'll bet you the Saints aren't saying anything like that, not even close to that...both very good players with plenty more to come. Some serious underating going on here with those two.

Clark is a gun

 

[Bearded Clam]

Its hard to look at the first round picks that Reed and the O have made in the past 5 or so years and not be very disapointed..

But gee… you gotta wonder how much our development of these young players has had a hand in it too.. and the lack of opportunity many of these young players have had whilst we have continued to give golden tickets to our experienced players instead over the past 4-5 seasons.

FFS.. we granted 59 *n games to David Mackay

14

David Mackay

Age

35

Ht

181cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

315.4

4star

D

16.5

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

3star

MG

265.5

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

over the 18,19,20 and 21 seasons.. 50 friggin 9!!!…

For what?.. what were we hoping to achieve?.. did they actually think he was some sort of Hodge type general off half back and was on field coaching our young players?..
what a waste of 59 games.. 59 games that couldve gone to our younger players.. but instead we kept the younger players back in the SANFL to develop..

In 2019 Richard Douglas

Richard Douglas

Age

37

Ht

181cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.9

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.5

5star

CL

3.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

19.4

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

5.2

5star

came back from injury mid season.. we gave him 9 games in a row.. around game 3 of those 9 it was clear he was no longer AFL standard.. we still gave him another 6 games before finally realising and dumping him.. then delisting him at the end of the season!..

Games that couldve gone to a youngster who was trapped in the sanfl.

Then.. When we finally give a younger player a game we have a nasty habit of playing them out of their natural position.. then dumping them back to the SANFL immediately when they dont have an outstanding game..

Then we wonder why these young players develop in to SANFL standard players..

Its more than just Reed and O that is, and has been, the problem..

Horrid first round drafting, horror list management and horrid player development and one of the worst midfields in the comp.

We are in for some long years as supporters.

 

[George Kramer]

Its hard to look at the first round picks that Reed and the O have made in the past 5 or so years and not be very disapointed..

But gee… you gotta wonder how much our development of these young players has had a hand in it too.. and the lack of opportunity many of these young players have had whilst we have continued to give golden tickets to our experienced players instead over the past 4-5 seasons.

FFS.. we granted 59 duckn games to David Mackay over the 18,19,20 and 21 seasons.. 50 friggin 9!!!…

For what?.. what were we hoping to achieve?.. did they actually think he was some sort of Hodge type general off half back and was on field coaching our young players?..
what a waste of 59 games.. 59 games that couldve gone to our younger players.. but instead we kept the younger players back in the SANFL to develop..

In 2019 Richard Douglas came back from injury mid season.. we gave him 9 games in a row.. around game 3 of those 9 it was clear he was no longer AFL standard.. we still gave him another 6 games before finally realising and dumping him.. then delisting him at the end of the season!..

Games that couldve gone to a youngster who was trapped in the sanfl.

Then.. When we finally give a younger player a game we have a nasty habit of playing them out of their natural position.. then dumping them back to the SANFL immediately when they dont have an outstanding game..

Then we wonder why these young players develop in to SANFL standard players..

Its more than just Reed and O that i, and has been, the problem..

Horrid first round drafting, horror list management and horrid player development and one of the worst midfields in the comp.

We are in for some long years as supporters.

Dont post this in the positive thread, I will have to card you

 

[ABAB]

I'm hopeful with Thilthorpe, but there's absolutely zero guarantee that he'll turn into an elite player.

You're solely basing this on his draft position and nothing else.

Ruckmen and tall forwards always have an element of risk when taken as a high draft pick because they take longer to develop. There's a laundry list of tall forwards taken with high draft picks that haven't made it.

I'm not saying that he won't, but it would be incredibly naive to just assume it's all just going to magically happen just because we drafted him at 2.

I haven't followed the other high pick's ruckmen and tall forward closely but with Thilthorpe he is very smart and clean (our 2nd best handball user after Walker) around stoppage and using his agility this is what will make him elite and set him apart from the other ruckmen.