Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co

[Danger in Texas]

Pretty hard to get those top 4 picks wrong though…

How many of those players Taylor has picked are top 4?.. Pet, oliver, jackson..

True, but considering the top 4 picks that Melb had before them, that’s an absolute indictment on the guy before Taylor

 

[Cap]

I don't think sacked is the right term. His performance should be analysed and reviewed of it doesn't stack up, find a replacement

 

[Crow till I die]

Yeah Cameron’s maybe a bit unfair in hindsight. Moreso thinking about the result if we held him to his contract, but would’ve wanted to leave anyway by the end of 2018, and probably would’ve gotten even less (considering he didn’t break out until 2019)

Remember also, at the time many were saying that Brisbane's pick 19 should get the deal done, but not only did we get pick 12, that deal was held up until after the Gibbs deal was done as it is quite possible Carlton would have demanded our picks 10 & 12 in lieu of the picks 10 & 16 that they got

 

[Crow till I die]

It would have, but I still think it was a good result.

The issue is we botched the pick. Take Zac Bailey and no one is complaining

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think almost to a man, people were ecstatic we got fog at 12. That it looks a bust now is a real shame

 

[Bearded Clam]

How exactly was Cameron a blunder?

Cameron wanted out and other than forcing a player that clearly wanted out to Brisbane to be nearer to family to see out his contract most thought that pick 12 was overs at the time. If I recall correctly that was a fair bit more than Brisbane wanted to cough up. My recollection is the deal went right down to the wire only going through just before the deadline when Brisbane finally relented and gave us pick 12.

Sure hindsight is great but at the time the general feeling on this board was Reid had done OK?

Yep.. pick 12 for Cameron at the time was bloody good..

People around here must have the memories of goldfish.. Cameron had a 2017 that started well but went very stale in the middle of the season. If I remember coreectly he was even dropped in the period around round 13 to 17..

Came real good in the PF though.. which is what got us pick 12 you’d think..

 

[Bearded Clam]

And it was still good stuff from Brisbane

The bad part from us was not showing more love to Charlie in contract negotiations and projecting what he could be …. I admit he probably would have left anyway but that’s not the whole point

Cameron wanted more than just money.. he wanted to live up here..

We couldve held out and kept him till 2018 and he still wouldve left and we wouldve gotten far less for him..

 

[Thetrader15]

It would have, but I still think it was a good result.

The issue is we botched the pick. Take Zac Bailey and no one is complaining

I'm sure Carlton (Dow), Saints (Clark, Coffield), Calton (OBrien), GWS (Bonar), WC (Brander) and Sydney (Ling) are all saying the same thing!

Same way Richmond would be about taking Higgins and CCJ before Tim Kelly.

If only we could get EVERY pick 100% correct! IMO, the pick was right, the development hasn't been.

 

[Scorpus]

I'm sure Carlton (Dow), Saints (Clark, Coffield), Calton (OBrien), GWS (Bonar), WC (Brander) and Sydney (Ling) are all saying the same thing!

Same way Richmond would be about taking Higgins and CCJ before Tim Kelly.

If only we could get EVERY pick 100% correct! IMO, the pick was right, the development hasn't been.

It would be nice if we could get 30% of the picks right

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Cameron wanted more than just money.. he wanted to live up here..

We couldve held out and kept him till 2018 and he still wouldve left and we wouldve gotten far less for him..

Yep agree

We needed to do more earlier

 

[Thetrader15]

It would be nice if we could get 30% of the picks right

We're well above that! What's the league average for 'right picks' anyway, let's set the bar and then compare how we go.

If anyone expects every first round pick to play 100 games and get a Brownlow, they're dreaming.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yep.. pick 12 for Cameron at the time was bloody good..

People around here must have the memories of goldfish.. Cameron had a 2017 that started well but went very stale in the middle of the season. If I remember coreectly he was even dropped in the period around round 13 to 17..

Came real good in the PF though.. which is what got us pick 12 you’d think..

Much of that is correct

Some people also couldn’t project what he might become

 

[MarcusP2]

We're well above that! What's the league average for 'right picks' anyway, let's set the bar and then compare how we go.

If anyone expects every first round pick to play 100 games and get a Brownlow, they're dreaming.

I expect some of them over a period of a decade to reach that level. Otherwise you'll probably end up at the foot of the ladder for 5 years +.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'll bet you the Saints aren't saying anything like that, not even close to that...both very good players with plenty more to come. Some serious underating going on here with those two.

Clark is a gun

 

[Bearded Clam]

Its hard to look at the first round picks that Reed and the O have made in the past 5 or so years and not be very disapointed..

But gee… you gotta wonder how much our development of these young players has had a hand in it too.. and the lack of opportunity many of these young players have had whilst we have continued to give golden tickets to our experienced players instead over the past 4-5 seasons.

FFS.. we granted 59 *n games to David Mackay

14

David Mackay

Age

35

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181cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

315.4

4star

D

16.5

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

3star

MG

265.5

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

over the 18,19,20 and 21 seasons.. 50 friggin 9!!!…

For what?.. what were we hoping to achieve?.. did they actually think he was some sort of Hodge type general off half back and was on field coaching our young players?..
what a waste of 59 games.. 59 games that couldve gone to our younger players.. but instead we kept the younger players back in the SANFL to develop..

In 2019 Richard Douglas

Richard Douglas

Age

37

Ht

181cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.9

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.5

5star

CL

3.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

19.4

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

5.2

5star

came back from injury mid season.. we gave him 9 games in a row.. around game 3 of those 9 it was clear he was no longer AFL standard.. we still gave him another 6 games before finally realising and dumping him.. then delisting him at the end of the season!..

Games that couldve gone to a youngster who was trapped in the sanfl.

Then.. When we finally give a younger player a game we have a nasty habit of playing them out of their natural position.. then dumping them back to the SANFL immediately when they dont have an outstanding game..

Then we wonder why these young players develop in to SANFL standard players..

Its more than just Reed and O that is, and has been, the problem..

Horrid first round drafting, horror list management and horrid player development and one of the worst midfields in the comp.

We are in for some long years as supporters.

 

[George Kramer]

Its hard to look at the first round picks that Reed and the O have made in the past 5 or so years and not be very disapointed..

But gee… you gotta wonder how much our development of these young players has had a hand in it too.. and the lack of opportunity many of these young players have had whilst we have continued to give golden tickets to our experienced players instead over the past 4-5 seasons.

FFS.. we granted 59 duckn games to David Mackay over the 18,19,20 and 21 seasons.. 50 friggin 9!!!…

For what?.. what were we hoping to achieve?.. did they actually think he was some sort of Hodge type general off half back and was on field coaching our young players?..
what a waste of 59 games.. 59 games that couldve gone to our younger players.. but instead we kept the younger players back in the SANFL to develop..

In 2019 Richard Douglas came back from injury mid season.. we gave him 9 games in a row.. around game 3 of those 9 it was clear he was no longer AFL standard.. we still gave him another 6 games before finally realising and dumping him.. then delisting him at the end of the season!..

Games that couldve gone to a youngster who was trapped in the sanfl.

Then.. When we finally give a younger player a game we have a nasty habit of playing them out of their natural position.. then dumping them back to the SANFL immediately when they dont have an outstanding game..

Then we wonder why these young players develop in to SANFL standard players..

Its more than just Reed and O that i, and has been, the problem..

Horrid first round drafting, horror list management and horrid player development and one of the worst midfields in the comp.

We are in for some long years as supporters.

Dont post this in the positive thread, I will have to card you

 

[ABAB]

I'm hopeful with Thilthorpe, but there's absolutely zero guarantee that he'll turn into an elite player.

You're solely basing this on his draft position and nothing else.

Ruckmen and tall forwards always have an element of risk when taken as a high draft pick because they take longer to develop. There's a laundry list of tall forwards taken with high draft picks that haven't made it.

I'm not saying that he won't, but it would be incredibly naive to just assume it's all just going to magically happen just because we drafted him at 2.

I haven't followed the other high pick's ruckmen and tall forward closely but with Thilthorpe he is very smart and clean (our 2nd best handball user after Walker) around stoppage and using his agility this is what will make him elite and set him apart from the other ruckmen.

 

[Slippery Pete]

To be honest I think our drafting has been garbage since we turfed Rendell.

When Rendell was sacked he mentioned that he had the next two years mapped out so there obviously was a group of players that we were specifically looking at. I wouldn't be surprised if Rendell's ground work in some way was still influential to a degree up until 2014.

I think Hamish rode off Rendell's coat tails and since being upgraded he's been exposed for not even being good enough to tie Rendell's boot laces.

Don’t get me started on the Rendell thing…

While I don’t think Ogilvie is as terrible as some here are saying, it was left in pretty good hands for him and it’s gone backwards under his watch.

Rendell was a recruiting genius.

 

[beartoo]

And it was still good stuff from Brisbane

The bad part from us was not showing more love to Charlie in contract negotiations and projecting what he could be …. I admit he probably would have left anyway but that’s not the whole point

Cameron did not play anywhere near at the level he plays at Brisbane when he played for us. Either he improved with maturity or he didn't give a stuff when here. He was hot and cold with the Crows--in and out of the side and injured a bit as well.
On what he showed with us pick twelve was a bonanza.

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[Golumless]

This is the kind of stuff that needs to be taken into account with these guys. I have no doubt, coaches, Burton, Roo have all come over the top of them at times. Wasn't Hamish supposedly picking English but Pyke insisted on a mid?

Not saying they are perfect but previous administration was no doubt quite overbearing. Interestingly since Nicks has taken over I feel our drafting has been better (still not amazing)

I don't think that's particularly interesting, just expected.

We stopped being a cheaped out, toxic shitshow with all of the wrong people at the top. Look at all of our off field moves since the review in 2019. The vast majority are an upgrade. From genuinely top tier operators such as Olsen and Burgess to even the more questionable hires in Van Berlo and Kelly (considering they replaced Godden/Burton, two who were abysmally bad). There is going to be an upswing in drafting success with that kind of environmental change over time just by not fostering an environment where careers go to wither and die.

 

[Sanders]

It really is difficult to judge the recruiting as a whole. Haggis seems exceptional at finding talent in the 20-40 range, but his record in the top 15 is awful. In a rebuild, you simply have to nail those top end picks.

WTF?!?

 

[Sanders]

Maybe not in Brisbane but in Queensland he certainly did.
It may have been only an excuse but that was what his manager put up at the time.

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Playing in those huge games like Geelong and Collingwood this year at home have been pretty electric, just really good to be in even if we didn’t play well against Collingwood,” he said. “Most of my family are still based in northern Queensland, with an uncle, aunty and few cousins in Brisbane. My family come down from Mornington and Mount Isa for a few games to watch me, which is good.

Charlie Cameron Traded To Brisbane

He gets his wish!

www.triplem.com.au

Cameron traded to Brisbane

Adelaide has allowed Charlie Cameron to join Brisbane on compassionate grounds

www.afc.com.au

What his manager said

North Queensland?!!

Mount Isa to Brisbane is double the distance Adelaide to Melbourne. Double!!! It’s nearly 2,000kms

Dusty wasn’t much further from his dad in NZ at that rate

Mount Isa to Brisbane is about the same distance as Brisbane to Adelaide

 

[Sanders]

Because this board perennially underrated Cameron and couldn’t project what he could be , I remember people being in raptures around here for getting pick 12 for him

And so they should, the trade was fair - not much different to what we got for Dangerfield

Once you accept his trade request the value was fair

However we didn’t need to let him go at all

 

[Sanders]

Sloane and the Crouches were going to lead us to the promised land.

Similar with Talia in our backline and Jacobs/ROB in the ruck.

I don’t think it’s that per se

Our rebuild started in 2018. We made a song and dance about not moving up because we’d positioned ourselves really well with 5 picks in the top 30 of the super draft.

We were going to top up and refresh our list, staying in contention for years and years.

We then let valuable players go because our culture was our super power. The playing spots opened up would accelerate our progression; there would’ve been a minor drop in the table, but we’d have a smooth rebuild without all this boom n bust of the poor culture, rabble clubs rebuilds

EXCEPT we were wrong on every level

Those 5 picks in the 2018 top 30 have yielded * all. And the arse fell out and we became a joke

Every one of those myriad bad decisions over this period has set us back. Probably years

 

[Sanders]

Cameron wanted more than just money.. he wanted to live up here..

We couldve held out and kept him till 2018 and he still wouldve left and we wouldve gotten far less for him..

How could we have ended up with much less?

 

[Sanders]

We're well above that! What's the league average for 'right picks' anyway, let's set the bar and then compare how we go.

If anyone expects every first round pick to play 100 games and get a Brownlow, they're dreaming.

Our drafting sucks

We are a rabble devoid of good players because of it.

And no we aren’t sneaky good at later picks either. We’re below average there too.

That’s a myth we tell ourselves