Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Raisedeyebrow]

Gino Gambardella has died last week. Had a stroke. His son appeared on Adelaide s 7 News story.

 

[Raisedeyebrow]

Gambardella dead!

Snap!

 

[bth18]

 

[Zebo]

The question about fishing was more to do where NM was found. As we know he was found in the Port River, end of Veitch road. In 1979 the area was an isolated wasteland with rough dirt tracks leading to water. I have spoken to friend who grew up in the area and frequented the river during the early 80’s, he said the river was popular with kids riding their bikes and exploring as well as people fishing. It’s a secluded spot and would only be known of by locals or people who fished in the river.

When involved in something as serious as dumping a body you would choose a secluded location which you were familiar with. BVE lived on the other side of Adelaide (North Eastern suburbs) he was familiar with the Adelaide hills where 3 of the victim’s where found. PF lived on the Western side of Adelaide near the Port River. BVE may have been involved with Neil Muir but I’m thinking the murder location was close to the river and person/persons involved in dumping the body had knowledge of the Port River.

View attachment 1054677

Bevan might have been quite familiar with the fishing spots around Outer Harbour. Did his dad or his uncle take him fishing, like his dad used to go fishing with his brother? The von Einem brothers (senior) were noted to be fishing in the area in this News 2/1/41 and in another in 1940.

 

[Kurve]

BVE would have been aware that freezing a body might advantage him in making it very hard, even impossible if completely thawed, for the medical examiner to accurately determine time of death.

Some might think it doesn't matter now whether he stored Richard in a freezer or not but it does because the truth matters, just ask Bob Moles. The convictions Manock was involved in imo will be reviewed, sooner or later.

Banquet Pg 193.
Von Einem's workmates talk to the police about his habits, about him. Did he mention the murders of the young men? Occasionally, but mostly he spoke about that other weird murder, the body in the freezer.

 

[Zebo]

BVE would have been aware that freezing a body might advantage him in making it very hard, even impossible if completely thawed, for the medical examiner to accurately determine time of death.

Some might think it doesn't matter now whether he stored Richard in a freezer or not but it does because the truth matters, just ask Bob Moles. The convictions Manock was involved in imo will be reviewed, sooner or later.

Banquet Pg 193.
Von Einem's workmates talk to the police about his habits, about him. Did he mention the murders of the young men? Occasionally, but mostly he spoke about that other weird murder, the body in the freezer.

Maybe Alan too, but for convenience, until they had time the following weekend to dispose of the body. It might account for the deep bruising.

 

[Zebo]

McInerney & Roles refer to a Dr D, who was closely associated with Dr Millhouse, Dr R and Dr S (Summary). They tell us Dr D did ‘teach considerable sedation techniques before his accidental death.’

Is this Dr D?

Dr DN. Born in 1938, to immigrant parents. Raised in the Riverland. Family moved to Adelaide in the mid 1950s and ran a hotel in the southern part of Pulteney Street until the mid 1970s. DN continued to live there (or use it as his address) until at least the late 1960s. Went to High School with the owner of the Alberton house. Graduated Med School a decade later in 1966, in the same cohort as Dr RC. Before going to uni worked in a govt department (in a similar position to the Businessman’s boyfriend a few years later). Qualified in anaesthetics in 1974. He also died young, passing ‘suddenly’ in 1978. No sign of a wife in his property titles or death notices.

There’s no indication of hospital affiliation in Medical Register but M&R say he was teaching, so maybe Flinders when it opened in 1976? Not sure he’d have had the standing to be at Uni of Adel/RAH.

 

[John Barnes]

Maybe Alan too, but for convenience, until they had time the following weekend to dispose of the body. It might account for the deep bruising.

There was no cellular degeneration in Alan’s body so as for him being keeper in a freezer even for a same time did not happen . Brown lived down the street from Dunston with the doctor for a time and was a very good friend of his . Next door is a term I used in this case was the wrong terminology . When I said that it was my intention for browns name I ment all the names to be made public not just browns .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[COxone]

That disappearance of Daniel Sheppard has a fair few similarities to how RK was taken. Are we sure these kidnappings stopped and never started again?

Also with the dumping of the bodies, I can't help but feel that they were dumped in locations that they were likely to be found. Seems odd to do if you wanted to co ti ue to get away with the crime to be so bad at that part of it. Makes no sense to me, these men were obviously great at concealment.

 

[bth18]

Also James Crocker who went missing in 1994, both are really strikingly similar - but id probably doubt it was some of the remaining guys ultimately, like what a risk to take for a couple of aging guys who had ultimately gotten away with murder.

however I think it was in Debi's book, does point out that Mr R's long term assistant/toyboy committed suicide 4 days after Daniel Shepard was taken, which I've confirmed. No one can say for sure though apart from those involved sadly.

 

[COxone]

Also James Crocker who went missing in 1994, both are really strikingly similar - but id probably doubt it was some of the remaining guys ultimately, like what a risk to take for a couple of aging guys who had ultimately gotten away with murder.

however I think it was in Debi's book, does point out that Mr R's long term assistant/toyboy committed suicide 4 days after Daniel Shepard was taken, which I've confirmed. No one can say for sure though apart from those involved sadly.

That's a very big coincidence and I personally do not like coincidences. Very suspicious. Are there any details about his suicide?

 

[bth18]

yeah to confirm its in the last few pages of 'Dissected'.

 

[bth18]

Today is the 50th anniversary of the murder of Dr George Duncan

 

[Zebo]

Also James Crocker who went missing in 1994, both are really strikingly similar - but id probably doubt it was some of the remaining guys ultimately, like what a risk to take for a couple of aging guys who had ultimately gotten away with murder.

however I think it was in Debi's book, does point out that Mr R's long term assistant/toyboy committed suicide 4 days after Daniel Shepard was taken, which I've confirmed. No one can say for sure though apart from those involved sadly.

I also wonder about Glen Stewart, who went missing 18/19 February 1977. His friendly landlord grew up with someone in Derrance's lot and very likely knew a few of the 'family' guys (via his father and/or his boyfriend, if not directly), assuming Glen hadn't met them by himself. Eg his sisters reckon he might have been stopping by Adelaide University on his way home from Henley Beach to Payneham at 1am on a Saturday morning to 'buy cigarettes'.

 

[DropBearess]

I also wonder about Glen Stewart, who went missing 18/19 February 1977. His friendly landlord grew up with someone in Derrance's lot and very likely knew a few of the 'family' guys (via his father and/or his boyfriend, if not directly), assuming Glen hadn't met them by himself. Eg his sisters reckon he might have been stopping by Adelaide University on his way home from Henley Beach to Payneham at 1am on a Saturday morning to 'buy cigarettes'.

Yes, l often wonder about Glen's disappearance too. The circumstances are very similar, especially stopping by the Uni. The servo near the Airport would have been the best option for cigarettes in that era.

I wonder why there has been no connection? I wonder what happened to the car?

 

[AdelaideGT]

The servo near the Airport would have been the best option for cigarettes in that era.

The servo on West Tce plus the take-aways on O'Connell St were also favoured late-night smoke pickup spots.

City Hotel on Hindley St used to open all-night (at least in the early 80s) and - unlike the clubs which were also open late - you didn't have to pay an entry fee to go in and buy durries.

Can't recall if the pie carts stocked a few packets either.

 

[Macka_321]

Anyone have any idea where the boys might have been held ?

 

[Zebo]

Yes, l often wonder about Glen's disappearance too. The circumstances are very similar, especially stopping by the Uni. The servo near the Airport would have been the best option for cigarettes in that era.

I wonder why there has been no connection? I wonder what happened to the car?

Glen was last seen heading south on Henley Beach Road, in the direction of the Airport.

Hard to know if it was police incompetence in simply not asking hard enough at that time (or later). Look how soft they went on the Alan Barnes suspects two years later. You'd think if he'd been at a party of people his landlord knew, with his landlord, driving a car that belonged to the landlord, that said landlord might have some idea where he intended to go (and who he was socialising with on other occasions). If the cops didn't know who his landlord might have known at the time, surely they knew later. But if there were hints of homosexuality surrounding Glen's disappearance, it may not have been taken seriously.

I'm told it was easy to de-identify a vehicle back then. You ground off the engine number or put in a different engine (eg out of a wreck) and you pretty much had a 'different' car. Or just sold it interstate. That mini might still be doing the Bay to Birdwood, if its not in the bottom of a dam somewhere.

By the way, did any of the Derrance or family mob have a passion for British vehicles? Glen had recently acquired an old Jag and was driving his landlord's Mini.

 

[Zebo]

The servo on West Tce plus the take-aways on O'Connell St were also favoured late-night smoke pickup spots.

Were these places open 24 hours in 1977?

 

[AdelaideGT]

Were these places open 24 hours in 1977?

West Tce was in the early 80s. I used to know the guy who did the 'all-night' shift.

And at the same time at least a couple of the North Adelaide take-aways were open until 1/2am, depending on the night.

I was just trying to think of options close to his route home. Only places close to Adelaide Uni would have been O'Connell St or Hindley St.


Just remembered that as well as the down-market City Hotel (run by Don Storen in the early 80s, not sure about 77) there were some bars in Hindley St that were open late into the morning at least in 1980 where you could have gotten smokes from a machine at least without paying an entry fee.

There was one - it was 'underground' (ie downstairs from street level) near the bowling alley- might have been called 'Olga's' - it was a female name anyway. Though I was under-age, can't ever remember being asked to show ID.

I guess it was when liquor licensing rules were loosened up in the Dunstan-era and beyond. Even in the mid-80s, we had visitors from Melbourne amazed that some pubs & bars could trade so late.

It was sometimes a shock to come up the stairs at places like Olga's after last drinks and realise the sun was coming up...

 

[Zebo]

West Tce was in the early 80s. I used to know the guy who did the 'all-night' shift.

And at the same time at least a couple of the North Adelaide take-aways were open until 1/2am, depending on the night.

I was just trying to think of options close to his route home. Only places close to Adelaide Uni would have been O'Connell St or Hindley St.


Just remembered that as well as the down-market City Hotel (run by Don Storen in the early 80s, not sure about 77) there were some bars in Hindley St that were open late into the morning at least in 1980 where you could have gotten smokes from a machine at least without paying an entry fee.

There was one - it was 'underground' (ie downstairs from street level) near the bowling alley- might have been called 'Olga's' - it was a female name anyway. Though I was under-age, can't ever remember being asked to show ID.

I guess it was when liquor licensing rules were loosened up in the Dunstan-era and beyond. Even in the mid-80s, we had visitors from Melbourne amazed that some pubs & bars could trade so late.

It was sometimes a shock to come up the stairs at places like Olga's after last drinks and realise the sun was coming up...

Thank you for this. Where was the City Hotel?

 

[AdelaideGT]

Thank you for this. Where was the City Hotel?

Hindley Street.

Where the Plaza Hotel is now I think.

 

[Dell43]

BVE would have been aware that freezing a body might advantage him in making it very hard, even impossible if completely thawed, for the medical examiner to accurately determine time of death.

Some might think it doesn't matter now whether he stored Richard in a freezer or not but it does because the truth matters, just ask Bob Moles. The convictions Manock was involved in imo will be reviewed, sooner or later.

Banquet Pg 193.
Von Einem's workmates talk to the police about his habits, about him. Did he mention the murders of the young men? Occasionally, but mostly he spoke about that other weird murder, the body in the freezer.

Kurve
I seem to remember you posting about the possibility of RK being store in a freezer before. If that is the case can you remind me of your theory.

 

[Kurve]

Kurve
I seem to remember you posting about the possibility of RK being store in a freezer before. If that is the case can you remind me of your theory.

Yeah ... I haven't wobbled on it yet. Here it is, just a theory.

Officially, no cause of death could be made for Richard. He may have been killed in BVEs house and not left evidence of a violent, bloody crime scene. We know Richard was there and can be confident in the fibres evidence though, the fibres evidence is trustworthy.

(Edit: It was the fibres evidence that got BVE to change his story and admit that Richard was in his house.)

What isn't trustworthy IMO and frustrates everybody involved, not just investigators but those who have to prosecute the case against von Einem later, is the pathologist/s reports first with their estimated time of death placing him as alive just before he was dumped in the bush then, with their time of death in mind, they mis/interpret the bruising. Neither of them had any training in histopathology (bruising) ten years later they still hadn't had any training and Keogh's conviction was overturned on a bruising issue. To this day though, it's difficult to tell the difference between pre and post mortem bruising and science still can't determine if a body's been frozen.

There's a question about the length of Richard's hair. Was it assumed he'd had a haircut because there was no growth? If his hair hadn't grown in the five weeks he was missing, it's not because he was given a haircut. It's because he was on ice for approximately four weeks out of the five.

The theory is that Richard died at BVEs house while his mother was away and likely one, two or three nights before BVE went back to work. This would also be more consistent with other crimes, held for days not over a month. When he died, BVE washed and redressed him in his own clothes that were scattered on BVEs bedroom floor and which is probably how the inside of Richard's jeans picked up snippets of BVEs freshly cut hair.

Then Richard was put into a freezer fully clothed and the post death processes were halted, locked in with the fibres evidence that tells the story of where he was just before he died. When he's taken out of the freezer he's exactly the same as he went in, as if he died just yesterday and the process of decay begins again where it left off.

While Richard's in freezer storage, BVE carries on as normal creating alibi. He knows that freezing a body makes it almost impossible to accurately nail time of death, effectively hiding it. He got the idea from following the Derrence Stephenson case and it almost worked for him.

Even if the cops realised at some point that Richard probably wasn't alive for the entire five weeks, they're stuck with building a brief around the pathologist's report.

 

[DropBearess]

Yeah ... I haven't wobbled on it yet. Here it is, just a theory.

Officially, no cause of death could be made for Richard. He may have been killed in BVEs house and not left evidence of a violent, bloody crime scene. We know Richard was there and can be confident in the fibres evidence though, the fibres evidence is trustworthy.

What isn't trustworthy IMO and frustrates everybody involved, not just investigators but those who have to prosecute the case against von Einem later, is the pathologist/s reports first with their estimated time of death placing him as alive just before he was dumped in the bush then, with their time of death in mind, they mis/interpret the bruising. Neither of them had any training in histopathology (bruising) ten years later they still hadn't had any training and Keogh's conviction was overturned on a bruising issue. To this day though, it's difficult to tell the difference between pre and post mortem bruising and science still can't determine if a body's been frozen.

There's a question about the length of Richard's hair. Was it assumed he'd had a haircut because there was no growth? If his hair hadn't grown in the five weeks he was missing, it's not because he was given a haircut. It's because he was on ice for approximately four weeks out of the five.

The theory is that Richard died at BVEs house while his mother was away and likely one, two or three nights before BVE went back to work. When he died, BVE washed and redressed him in his own clothes that were scattered on BVEs bedroom floor and which is probably how the inside of Richard's jeans picked up snippets of BVEs freshly cut hair.

Then Richard was put into a freezer fully clothed and the post death processes were halted, locked in with the fibres evidence that tells the story of where he was just before he died. When he's taken out of the freezer he's exactly the same as he went in, as if he died just yesterday and the process of decay begins again where it left off.

While Richard's in freezer storage, BVE carries on as normal creating alibi. He knows that freezing a body makes it almost impossible to accurately nail time of death, effectively hiding it. He got the idea from following the Derrence Stephenson case and it almost worked for him.

Even if the cops realised at some point that Richard probably wasn't alive for the entire five weeks, they're stuck with building a brief around the pathologist's report.

Exactly what l believe happened. I have always hoped Richard's parents and loved ones believed this too. The thought of him being held and hurt over 5 weeks is horrendous.